They got outsmarted by the fifteen year old boy. Blame Buckingham. Since when are the Staffords reasonable anyway?
I think the plan was pure dumb from the beginning. Even if the Duke was planning to invade England, what made them think that the troops supplied would listen to THEM?
 
I think the plan was pure dumb from the beginning. Even if the Duke was planning to invade England, what made them think that the troops supplied would listen to THEM?
The initial plan was to invade England to claim the throne for Philip and Mary and then for Tudor/Buckingham to later usurp them from within by presenting Tudor as a better option for the english who was veary of being governed by a flemish duke.

With no Elizabeth of York here or Margaret Stanley to aid them, and also Gloucester isn't tainted by the princes in the tower or seen as a ursrper here, things went sideways for them. Not the best laid plan, but I wanted to find a way for Tudor to be executed by Philip somehow.
 
The initial plan was to invade England to claim the throne for Philip and Mary and then for Tudor/Buckingham to later usurp them from within by presenting Tudor as a better option for the english who was veary of being governed by a flemish duke.

With no Elizabeth of York here or Margaret Stanley to aid them, and also Gloucester isn't tainted by the princes in the tower or seen as a ursrper here, things went sideways for them. Not the best laid plan, but I wanted to find a way for Tudor to be executed by Philip somehow.
Most likely Philip would be invading in person with his own army.How they plan to present Tudor as a better option?
 
Most likely Philip would be invading in person with his own army.How they plan to present Tudor as a better option?
Philip is fourteen/fifteen right now. So they tried to make themselves out as his trusted minions who would claim the throne as his representatives who had connections with the english nobility. And then after a time to start a whispering/smear campaign that No Proper English Man Would Want A Flemish To Rule Them and ta da Here Is Henry Tudor, ready to take the throne!

Not the best plan and rather chaotic too.
I think Henry counted on his former stepfather and Northumberland to help him and neither of those did.
 
Last edited:
I was gonna say Edward saddled himself with Elizabeth, until I realized you meant Margaret. My brain refused to hold onto memories of her.
I think the historians will be very harsh on Margaret for a while and then newer historians rising with the feminist movement in the 1970s will be analyse how her tenure was marked with the structural gender norms at that time and Margaret was a woman who suffered and tried to make her own legacy and thus damned by the men in her life. Modern historians have a more nuanced view of her, probably.
Yeah, Margaret was never an inch of the Queen Elizabeth was.
I don't really think Elizabeth was great queen either, but she was a improvement on Margaret of Anjou and Elizabeth of York.
 
Well, England has a new Queen in town and I'm sure Beatrice will stand proud amongst the likes of Philippa of Hainault.
Aside from Anne of Bohemia, the queens after her weren't up to the same snuff as the earlier Plantagenet consorts. Elizabeth was rather good in that regard as consort, even if there were so many issues with her.
 
Aside from Anne of Bohemia, the queens after her weren't up to the same snuff as the earlier Plantagenet consorts. Elizabeth was rather good in that regard as consort, even if there were so many issues with her.
Beatrice will make damn sure her baby boy will get only the best of the best... *COUGH* Catherine of Aragon *COUGH*
 
Top