The Golden Horde converts to Orthodoxy

The Golden Horde's religious identity remained somewhat fluid up until Uzbeg Khan definatively converted it to Islam in the early 14th century-what would it take for Orthodoxy to win out instead? POD's outside the Horde itself (such as 1204 going a different way, leading to a stronger Byzantine Empire) are acceptable.

Also, what would an Orthodox horde look like? I expect it would likely wind up Slavicising rather than (OTL) Turkicizing, but what varient of slavic-Russian, Ukrainian, something else?-would it most likely adopt? Also, how much would Orthodoxy help its administration and general stability compared to OTL? Might the Ghengisids retain their power for longer? Might the Mongols be regarded as the founders of modern Russia, instead of a group that oppressed it for several centuries?

Discuss
 
Also, what would an Orthodox horde look like?
My guess that Rus would not be the part which would break away at the first chance. That would have been a kind of stabilizing factor for the horde. That wouldn't be the core of the horde, but close.
The Golden Horde would fall apart inevitably. And one of the parts would be something like even more 'Mongolian' Russia than in OTL.
But that wouldn't change too much.
In OTL nearly half of the Russian elite were of the Tartars' origin. 'Slavicised' and 'Orthodoxised'. In this ATL that would be 90%.
Hm, I guess Russia would have been even more scary in this ATL. :D
 
I'll take a guess at this: Basically, there was one Khan within the Golden Horde who was a Christian, and that was Sartaq the Khan who succeeded Batu Khan before he got himself poisoned and Berke takes the leadership role. So in order for the Golden Horde to embrace Orthodoxy, Sartaq should live longer while Berke dies early, and I believe that could be arranged by having Berke drink the poisoned tea meant for Sartaq instead. Of course, this may have implications on a stronger Golden Horde and its neighbors (Lithuania for instance).

I had an idea where Kievan Rus splits into two with Vladimir and a surviving Yaropolk ruling the two halves. Yaropolk could either convert to Orthodoxy or Catholicism while Vladimir could convert to Nestorianism in a TL where the Nestorian Church was dominant in Persia (due to a failed Arab invasion). The Il-Khanate might also have had a chance to become Orthodox Christians in the Oriental or Greek sense, not Russian.
 

Winnabago

Banned
If just the Golden Horde converts, then Russia would probably side with the Golden Horde in its colonization of Siberia, but of course, the Horde would collapse sooner or later, likely with Russia seen as the bringer of order.

After all, an Orthodox Horde is the Horde orienting itself towards Russia and Eastern Europe against the Middle East and Islam.

There really aren’t that many Christian nomads, so I wouldn’t consider them very hardcore Christians (after all, they don’t have the resources for big temples).

Chances are, we would have a much better Russian hold of Central Asia by now.
 
If just the Golden Horde converts, then Russia would probably side with the Golden Horde in its colonization of Siberia, but of course, the Horde would collapse sooner or later, likely with Russia seen as the bringer of order.

After all, an Orthodox Horde is the Horde orienting itself towards Russia and Eastern Europe against the Middle East and Islam.

There really aren’t that many Christian nomads, so I wouldn’t consider them very hardcore Christians (after all, they don’t have the resources for big temples).

Chances are, we would have a much better Russian hold of Central Asia by now.

With the Central Asians as Christians instead of Muslims? I've seen threads where the Golden Horde converts to Orthodoxy, but I only made comments about an idea I proposed with regards to a Nestorian Christian Russia. I also had a weird idea about a Mongol Khanate in the Balkans (Nogai Khan carving out his own domains being the PoD). Bonus point if Timur never rises to power, or another option would be having Timur the Orthodox Crusader exploit the power vaccum that is created after the fall of the Golden Horde.
 
Well the Kerait and Naiman Mongol tribes we're Nestorian Christians, and Hegulu of the Ilkhanate...but this is before the current POD.
 
Going even before the 1204 PoD would certainly help. Having the Naiman and Kereit Christian tribes go along with the Tatars to Russia would also help. Alternatively, the Merkits could be Christianized and play a bigger role than the Tatars in the Golden Horde (Jochi's parentage could be part-Merkit due to Borte giving birth to him after Genghis Khan rescues her from the Merkits and Chagatai questioning Jochi's lineage.)
 
I'll take a guess at this: Basically, there was one Khan within the Golden Horde who was a Christian, and that was Sartaq the Khan who succeeded Batu Khan before he got himself poisoned and Berke takes the leadership role. So in order for the Golden Horde to embrace Orthodoxy, Sartaq should live longer while Berke dies early, and I believe that could be arranged by having Berke drink the poisoned tea meant for Sartaq instead. Of course, this may have implications on a stronger Golden Horde and its neighbors (Lithuania for instance).

I'm unsure about using Sartaq Khan as a POD-it would butterfly away the Berke-Hulegu war and might lead to the Horde and the Il-Khanate being allied for longer. And besides, Sartaq Khan wouldn't, IMHO, ensure an Orthodox Horde-Berke Khan's successors, after all, were pagan all the way up till Uzbeg in 1313.

The reason I suggested no 1204 as a POD was that a stronger Byzantine Empire might become a more attractive ally vs. the Il-khanate, leading the Khans to, say, marry Byzantine princesses or allow the Byzantines to send priests to Sarai. This would introduce the Khans to Orthodoxy, and if Byzantium (instead of the Mameluks) becomes their main ally against the Il-Khanate

I agree with you, though, that an Orthodox Horde would have implications-certainly I think the Ukrainians and Belarussians will most likely support them in their wars with Lithuania, which could lead to the Horde going better, possibly keeping control of Ukraine and Belarus. I still think the Horde would eventually break up. It will be divided, after all, into the historic Kievan Rus part-which are primarily settled, Slavic, and Orthodox, and the Volga river valley and Central Asia-primarily nomadic and Turkic, and with a lot of Muslims-so I think a breakup into at least two states along those lines is very likely. However, I think its also likely that the "Russian" part would continue to have a Ghengisid dynasty.

Also, does anyone know what the religious makeup of the Volga region and Central Asia was prior to the Horde's Islamicization? I'm curious as to whether a significant portion of the nomads their could become Orthodox.
 
I'm unsure about using Sartaq Khan as a POD-it would butterfly away the Berke-Hulegu war and might lead to the Horde and the Il-Khanate being allied for longer. And besides, Sartaq Khan wouldn't, IMHO, ensure an Orthodox Horde-Berke Khan's successors, after all, were pagan all the way up till Uzbeg in 1313.

The reason I suggested no 1204 as a POD was that a stronger Byzantine Empire might become a more attractive ally vs. the Il-khanate, leading the Khans to, say, marry Byzantine princesses or allow the Byzantines to send priests to Sarai. This would introduce the Khans to Orthodoxy, and if Byzantium (instead of the Mameluks) becomes their main ally against the Il-Khanate

I agree with you, though, that an Orthodox Horde would have implications-certainly I think the Ukrainians and Belarussians will most likely support them in their wars with Lithuania, which could lead to the Horde going better, possibly keeping control of Ukraine and Belarus. I still think the Horde would eventually break up. It will be divided, after all, into the historic Kievan Rus part-which are primarily settled, Slavic, and Orthodox, and the Volga river valley and Central Asia-primarily nomadic and Turkic, and with a lot of Muslims-so I think a breakup into at least two states along those lines is very likely. However, I think its also likely that the "Russian" part would continue to have a Ghengisid dynasty.

Also, does anyone know what the religious makeup of the Volga region and Central Asia was prior to the Horde's Islamicization? I'm curious as to whether a significant portion of the nomads their could become Orthodox.

Volga Bulgaria was a Muslim state, that is what I know. Khazaria was Jewish or multi-faith, and the Kipchaks' religious affliation is unknown, as would the Cumans. The Ukrainian-Belarusian portion of the Golden Horde could become the Kingdom of Ruthenia with either a Gediminid or a Rurikid on the throne.

Although I don't know if Timur would eventually show up at some point, or would he be butterflied away, as would the Ottomans. Other than that, the Crimean Tatars could be Christian as well, if given the right incentives.
 
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