The Gold Rose: An Edward of Angoulême timeline

Congratulations on winning the Turtledove!
Thank you! And you to everyone who voted. I think this is the first time I've won something since high school x'D
 
with England having managed to commit many French and allied soldiers in Castile, perhaps it can try an attack on Avignon itself to free the pope from the French yoke (perhaps we can get the help of the Roman king Sigismund in exchange for a reform in papal elections to prevent French cardinals or pro-French Italians from prevailing, an increase in the number of voting cardinals from other countries?

What is happening in Italy? Will the viscounts manage to centralize their domains or will Venice and Florence try to break them? the future emperor decides to modify the golden bull of 1356 to include a lay electorate in Italy
 
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There are some big updates coming over the next few weeks, so here's a roadmap of what to expect:

War of Portuguese Succession (80 percent done): This did not win the vote, but it will be the next update.

"Prince of Chester," which did win the vote, will firmly move the story back to England and France for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure when (or even if) we'll get back to Iberia -- and if we do, it'll be so far past this event that it would take a lot to catch up. So, since WOPS very nearly beat out Lancaster's Crusade in the last round and placed a strong second this round, I figured there was enough interest to tie off the Iberian interlude that began with "Third Fernandine War" before posting the "Prince of Chester." I hope to have this done and posted in the next week and a half.

Prince of Chester (95 percent done): This is fully written and the first three-quarters of it has been edited. It should only take a day or two to finish, but I'd rather get "War of Portuguese Succession" up first. The next poll will go up with this one, with options for updates on France, Scotland ... and possibly more. I will post it a week or so after WOPS goes up.

Queen's Great Matter (90 percent done): This was never an option, so expect a bonus post to go up after "Prince of Chester" introducing Edward's queen and detailing the long process that led to their marriage, which has been sprinkled through a couple of updates already. I originally wrote this as part of POC, but it was too long and it ultimately detracted from what I wanted to say in that update, so I cut it out and made it a standalone. I was very nearly finished with the writing of this when I decided to cut it, so it only needs to be wrapped up and then edited. I hope to get this finished quickly after POC goes up and have it posted within the next three weeks.

Trees update: All the tree threadmarks will be updated after "Queen's Great Matter" to catch them up to the mid 1380s.
 
What is happening in Italy? Will the viscounts manage to centralize their domains or will Venice and Florence try to break them? the future emperor decides to modify the golden bull of 1356 to include a lay electorate in Italy
I don't know that I'll be touching on Italy much beyond the effects of the HYW and schism, but the quest for Naples may be a point of interest.
 
I don't know that I'll be touching on Italy much beyond the effects of the HYW and schism, but the quest for Naples may be a point of interest.



pity, Italy at the moment is an interesting place: among the Visconti who are expanding throughout the North (subduing both Savoy and the other cities, reaching as far as Tuscany) who are also remembering the imperial representatives in the peninsula. Oh also Naples trying to expand into papal territories (see legations: Umbria, Marche, Abruzzo and Romagna)


in addition of course to the schism in progress (with the various failed papal expeditions in which attempts were made from Avignon to regain control over the papal territories, also the fact that the same captivity has this reputation derives from only two things: one the presumed or not French control on the papacy and the other is the fact that Avignon, being a small city, no one was used to seeing the huge number of people who moved around the papal court (which is instead very common in Rome, to be precise I mean artists of all types but also pilgrims from other places in Europe (which are easier to visit than Rome) as well as obviously merchants and craftsmen)
this is also the period in which the rules of the iux exclusivae (the royal veto on pontifical elections) are established, so depending on how you manage the schism, even England may have it (as well as greater political weight in the papal curia, which that Otl did not have, was one of the reasons why Henry VIII accepted the reform, to avoid this it would be necessary perhaps with the capture of Avignon by the English to put pressure on the pope to increase/decree a bull in which a precise number is established
of foreign crown cardinals (major than Otl) including even more English so as to balance the huge number of French and their allies among the Italians (they were divided into factions so their nationality did not count, they could easily be puppets of one or the other power)
 
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I'm curious as if any of the Italian states will be involved in Iberia and France. And how will the House of York fare this time? Also will the English and French participate in the Nicopolis crusade?
 
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I'm curious as if any of the Italian states will be involved in Iberia and France
Milan and Savoy may get mentions in the not too distant future, but I don't expect to get to much in depth here. The Anjou-Durazzo war for Naples may become a larger part of the story since it is more directly tied to the HYW and schism.

And how will the House of York fare this time?
The house of Aumale is on much surer footing, financially, thanks to Edward IV's brief reign (when Edmund of Langley receives his ATL title and new lands to support it) and the Second Treaty of Bayonne, where Isabella of Castille's rights are bought out. Edmund of Langley will feature more in the upcoming "Prince of Chester," but there won't be any big surprises for him there.

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that the family's stronger financial position may lead to an earlier, better marriage for Edward (OTL 2nd duke of York) but I haven't got there yet, and the consequences of that are a long way off.

Also will the English and French participate in the Nicopolis crusade?
I have thought a lot about this and will not spoil anything 🤐
 
Yikes. She's not going to take that well

She's unable to do anything at all about it even if she wanted to, she commands no armies, she doesn't have much clout, even English king is rather distant relative of her husband, who didn't even have best relationship at all, and cuckolded him with John Holland, heck, it's even probable that Conisburgh was really a bastard of Holland all along (Richard III's Y-DNA doesn't match other Y-DNA of other Plantagenet descendants alive in XXIth century like Somerset family descended from Beauforts, so there must be a reason for it, and since it was suggested that Conisburgh was a bastard in contemporary times, and no such suggestion was made about any of the Beaufort-Somerset line, it's likely that Conisburgh was not Langley's son), she does not have money, so what she's gonna do?
Stand there and cry about it?
 
I'm curious as if any of the Italian states will be involved in Iberia and France.
Milan and Savoy may get mentions in the not too distant future, but I don't expect to get to much in depth here. The Anjou-Durazzo war for Naples may become a larger part of the story since it is more directly tied to the HYW and schism.
Thinking about it more this morning, it's possible we may visit northern Italy briefly at some point in the future. The count of Armagnac did organize a disastrous invasion of Visconti lands in the late 80s (or early 90s?) IIRC. It was an effort to get the routiers out of southern France by pointing them toward a more valuable target. I haven't really considered what to do about that just yet. The whole affair may be butterflied away.

I took a garden approach to this timeline, planting seeds and watching them grow. I didn't expect the English to be in a better position in Aquitaine in ATL, but as I was writing about the Black Prince surviving a bit longer, it seemed to me like that was likely. The French conquests of the late-70s were a close-fought series of events, so I felt like it didn't actually take much to push them to the English and keep a rump state of Gascony under their control -- something I really think they could have done with just a bit more money flowing from Westminster to Bordeaux. Now that that's happened -- here and here -- mid to late 80s Gascony needs some serious consideration on my part.
 
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Rereading the parts in Spain. Does the situation cause the Moroccans to seriously consider invading Spain again assuming that the situation over there is even more unstable than OTL?
 
Rereading the parts in Spain. Does the situation cause the Moroccans to seriously consider invading Spain again assuming that the situation over there is even more unstable than OTL?
Morocco entered a period of serious decline in the second half of the 14th century. It is far too politically unstable in the 1380s for anyone to lead a foreign invasion.
 
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Morocco entered a period of serious decline in the second half of the 15th century. It is far too politically unstable in the 1380s for anyone to lead a foreign invasion.
Fair.

Also you mentioned the Viscounti. Will their fate in this TL be radically different? I know they were the one house that came so close to unifying much of northern italy.
 
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