I wonder if the split will come before or after the war and what impact a stronger and more unified revolutionary current in the International will have on the inevitable postwar revolutionary wave.
The Glowing Dream: A history of Socialist America
- Thread starter Iggies
- Start date
Actually something I wonder, are the anarchistic syndicalists more often found in the less overtly parlimentary and reformist Second International since they never banned anti-parlimentarists?
As there seemed to have been anarchists early on in the Second International, such as found in the Italian sections, and here they haven't been banned on-mass.
As there seemed to have been anarchists early on in the Second International, such as found in the Italian sections, and here they haven't been banned on-mass.
At the 1896 congress, anti-parliamentarianism was in fact condemned officially (though a lot of the anti-parliamentarians like Niuewenhuis who threatened to storm out stuck around anyways). Here the motion is tabled thanks largely to American influence.
The French Socialists here are more divided, and the revolutionary wing of the party is stronger than IOTL.
At the 1904 congress, the firmly anti-war faction is stronger thanks to the Americans.
Basically this international is more divided and the revolutionary current is stronger.
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Continental Security reaches a size bigger than the US Army during the Frick Administration.
What's going to be the situation with all of the states with SLP governments?
Or like many White emigres from bourgeois or aristocratic backgrounds IOTL, reduced to poverty and obscurity in stateless exile.
I hope we get at least some of these barons be forced to work on their factories by the victorious ex-workers.
I honestly hope this is not the case.
The only way such revenge is going to turn out is not going to reverse the fates or show them how a worker's life had been. After so much humiliation and so much pent-up aggression, a triumphant revolutionary socialism who would be petty enough to enforce a "role reversal" in the form of forced labour, wherever and whenever, probably especially in their own former factories, would unleash degrees of sadism and cruelty which would be truly horrible to behold and which would blemish the new society, its conscience and its soft power.
Not to say they shouldn't work, and even in their own former factories - but the latter if they so choose. If they prefer to emigrate, let them.
Spontaneous cruelty is probably unavoidable in a revolution, and the oppressors really have it coming. But planned cruelty - it's really quite plausible, but I sincerely hope that the American labour movement will not choose that path.
Realistically, that wouldn't happen for the barons would in most likelihood be in obscure exile, having fled the country with all the money they could carry.
Hopefully, we will see more candidates from colonized nations like India and China. Also, can you do some culture-related impact in art and literature?
The idea of exhausted, nerve-wracked, Old Man McKinley sitting in a tub of lukewarm bathwater, or prostrate in his bed with only a robe for dignity, humming The Internationale just by force of exposure is just...... tops to me.
That wasn't the description in the update, but the image is in my head and it got a chuckle out of me.
Poor guy. He was at the end of his rope with nothing left in him but a silent surrender to the chaos.
This was the section I loved the most.
It feels like Saddam's coup, if only a trifle more civilized. With the members of government being dragged from the chamber, it was an awful scene to put yourself in the shoes of.
But this also gave me a laugh.
Maybe not what you'd like to hear, but the first thing that came to my mind on this section was 1920s version of a Behind the Music interview.
Long after the fact, the man is justifying a travesty and probably to soothe his conscience over his part in the mess to come.
Seconded on both counts.
This bit at the end there is at the heart of what makes the updates with Jack so good. The scrappiness of it all. Just struggling from one place to the next, never having enough strength to hold your ground in one place for too long but being too stubborn not to keep at it some place else.
If the Russians are rats, I think it's only fair to call the Americans Jackals (Well Coyotes morelike, but Jackals sound better).
Rats and Jackals ersus The World.
Irony is a funny thing.
"Dread International" would be a damn good band name.
Also, there's a bit of symbolism with the whole Rats as an underappreciated threat with the passage in the Jack London update about whether the cops or the alligators find the bodies first when it's the rats who'll find what they're looking for long before anyone else does.
Everyone in the Internationale's looking at Germany, France, and England. They're looking at the United States. They're worrying about London and Paris and Berlin. But those rats off on the fringes are closer to the threshold than any of them are.
Revolutions are a product of need and desperation. And there is no greater need than in the Russias and Americas.
No creature feels hunger quite like a scavenger, they're seldom strong enough for a full meal so they must eat all they can, where they can, and with no reservations. It's the most well-fed that can afford to be picky eaters and they're most certainly not them.
Last edited:
Hmmm, I'm starting to see a potential new power balance in the international order, namely between "Hard Socialists" like the Americans and Russians, and "Soft Socialists" like those in the UK and Germany (France seems like a wildcard, it could go either Soft or Hard Socialist it seems).
This makes me wonder, if "Hard" Socialists take power in America and Russia, what will be the reaction in states like the UK, Germany and France? Will the Socialists there follow the example of their comrades in America and Russia? Or will they recoil against revolutionary Socialism and seek to work with the Capitalists, especially if America and Russia go down the path of Red Terror? Or will those states react by cracking down on their own Socialist movements in an attempt to disrupt or destroy any perceived plans to revolt? I could definitely see France tearing itself apart in civil war. Again. I also wonder if Germany will endure an ATL Spartacus Uprising?
Either way, it looks like the British Empire might end up surrounded by new socialist states, if it doesn't succumb to revolution itself. But that's just a pessimistic theory on my part, but I really hope the UK and it's Dominions hold out against whatever Red Tide may come
I also wonder if a certain John Reed will play a role in events to come? I know Kaiserreich makes him a big deal, but I wonder how much actual influence he'd have in reality? I'd also be interested to see how Huey Long does in this reality, especially seeing as he'd still be quite young when the Second American Revolution happens (I think)
This makes me wonder, if "Hard" Socialists take power in America and Russia, what will be the reaction in states like the UK, Germany and France? Will the Socialists there follow the example of their comrades in America and Russia? Or will they recoil against revolutionary Socialism and seek to work with the Capitalists, especially if America and Russia go down the path of Red Terror? Or will those states react by cracking down on their own Socialist movements in an attempt to disrupt or destroy any perceived plans to revolt? I could definitely see France tearing itself apart in civil war. Again. I also wonder if Germany will endure an ATL Spartacus Uprising?
Either way, it looks like the British Empire might end up surrounded by new socialist states, if it doesn't succumb to revolution itself. But that's just a pessimistic theory on my part, but I really hope the UK and it's Dominions hold out against whatever Red Tide may come
I also wonder if a certain John Reed will play a role in events to come? I know Kaiserreich makes him a big deal, but I wonder how much actual influence he'd have in reality? I'd also be interested to see how Huey Long does in this reality, especially seeing as he'd still be quite young when the Second American Revolution happens (I think)
Last edited:
I believe that he had an Uncle who was active in various Socialist and Populist circles around this time IOTL. Winn Parish, where he was born and raised, was a stronghold of Populist and Socialist support during this time (as well as Unionism back during the Civil War) so I would expect to see a few Longs involved in the struggle.
That was a nice look at the international situation. I think the anti war resolution is going to have some serious consequences.
Potentially here the reformists will be the ones splitting the party to side with the government, rather than the 3rd internationale having to establish itself in the shambles of the 2nd's support for the world war?
Potentially here the reformists will be the ones splitting the party to side with the government, rather than the 3rd internationale having to establish itself in the shambles of the 2nd's support for the world war?