Would have cut through the Russians like butter, the army was exhausted, the government bankrupt and its people disillusioned with all sorts of promises, it was really a sort of paradigm shift given the whole scale of the crisis.What if, after the failure of Russia's Kerensky Offensive, Germany would have launched a massive offensive against Russia?
How well would this German offensive have fared if it was launched before the start of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia?
Any thoughts on this?
Would have cut through the Russians like butter, the army was exhausted, the government bankrupt and its people disillusioned with all sorts of promises, it was really a sort of paradigm shift given the whole scale of the crisis.
As it is with American troops coming en masse across the Atlantic it would have been foolish on Germany's part to do this.
Why would they launch an offensive then declare peace?Could this have been enough for the Russian Provisional Government to start talking about peace with Germany, though?
What about the German hope of a separate peace with Russia, though?
I meant that they could believe that this could cause Russia's government to change its mind in regards to this.Why would they launch an offensive then declare peace?
You say the launch a retaliatory offensive after Kerensky bungles.I meant that they could believe that this could cause Russia's government to change its mind in regards to this.
That's the thing, though--the Germans don't even have a chance of winning in the West ASAP unless Russia is quickly removed from the war.You say the launch a retaliatory offensive after Kerensky bungles.
In late 1917 the Americans were coming and the balance was shifting why would the Germans devote even some of their efforts in the east when they need to win in the west ASAP?
Russian society was disintegrating on its own, the Kerensky government was unstable the calls of agitation were growing greater and they couldn't hold out much longer.That's the thing, though--the Germans don't even have a chance of winning in the West ASAP unless Russia is quickly removed from the war.
Germany might not have known that yet, though.Russian society was disintegrating on its own, the Kerensky government was unstable the calls of agitation were growing greater and they couldn't hold out much longer.
That's the thing, though--the Germans don't even have a chance of winning in the West ASAP unless Russia is quickly removed from the war.
Maybe not the scale and penetrating depth of the crisis in Russian society but they had to know the Russians were' a threat.Germany might not have known that yet, though.
How big of an offensive do you want? They did launch the Riga offensive in 1917.What if, after the failure of Russia's Kerensky Offensive, Germany would have launched a massive offensive against Russia?
How well would this German offensive have fared if it was launched before the start of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia?
Any thoughts on this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_JuglaThe Russian provisional government was greatly weakened by this military catastrophe, and the possibility of a Bolshevik coup d'état became increasingly real. Far from strengthening Russian army morale, this offensive proved that Russian army morale no longer existed. No Russian general could now count on the soldiers under his command actually doing what they were ordered to do.
This offensive helped the start of the July Days, and also affected the situation in Romania. Russo-Romanian forces, which first broke the Austro-Hungarian front at Mărăşti in support of the Kerensky Offensive, were stopped.
One further fight took place between the Germans and the Russians in 1917. On September 1, 1917 the Germans attacked and captured Riga. The Russian soldiers defending the town refused to fight and fled from the advancing German troops.
Good point about Caporetto.How big of an offensive do you want? They did launch the Riga offensive in 1917.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerensky_Offensive#Aftermath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jugla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Albion
Major action beyond that was a waste, because the Germans used their reserves to attack at Caporetto, which was more militarily useful at the time considering Russia was collapsing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Caporetto
"If" or "It"?If had already just been demonstrated that Russia was no longer an effective factor in the war.
Again, why? Plus the Riga offensive was roughly similar size and effort to first stage of the G-T offensive.Good point about Caporetto.
Also, though, I was thinking of an offensive along the scale of the successful Gorlice-Tarnow Offensive back in 1915.
To try knocking Russia out of the war, of course.Again, why? Plus the Riga offensive was roughly similar size and effort to first stage of the G-T offensive.
They were already neutered and no threat, spending the declining manpower and resources to hasten that process does nothing, because the Germans were able to attack Italy a month after Riga with reserves not needed in the East and did just fine. Even before Russia officially left the war the Germans stripped out the East to attack in France in March 1918. At the same time the Brest-Litovsk advance was going on:To try knocking Russia out of the war, of course.
Question--did the Germans begin moving forces West even before the Brest-Litovsk Treaty was signed?They were already neutered and no threat, spending the declining manpower and resources to hasten that process does nothing, because the Germans were able to attack Italy a month after Riga with reserves not needed in the East and did just fine. Even before Russia officially left the war the Germans stripped out the East to attack in France in March 1918. At the same time the Brest-Litovsk advance was going on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Faustschlag