The Germans chose their Fleet in Feb 1919

Ward

The Germans chose their Fleet in Feb 1919


On January 10th of 1919 The Allies told the Hochseeflotte that they could choose the ships they Keep as long as they did not have more then 2 x15in Gun Battle Ships up to 140,000 Tons of Capital ships . 80,000tons of Cruisers , and 40,000 tons of TB or DD.

The ships they could take had to be finished by 1,1,1919

Using this site for the ships and weights http://navypedia.org/ships/germany/ger_bb_derfflinger.htm

The German Hochseeflotte knows that the rest of the Fleet will go to the allies as war prizes .

And they will not be able to replace these ships for 20 years .

You are an admiral in the German Navy and asked by the government for your input on the ships to keep and why .

Some Back Groundhttps://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrB8pECsNdYFCEA4C82nIlQ?p=German%20Fleet%20Scuttled%20In%201919&fr=yfp-t-900-s&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Ai%2Cm%3Apivot&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att#action=view&id=3&vid=8d4d55c6ed218948724f538f796ea8f1
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrB8pECsNdYFCEA4C82nIlQ?p=German Fleet Scuttled In 1919&fr=yfp-t-900-s&fr2=p:s,v:i,m:pivot&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att
 
Last edited:

Detlef

That would be quite ....generous? And very unlikely.

Still let us see.
I assume they´re also forbidden to build new ships during that 20 year period?
Otherwise I´d advise to keep only some ships and build new and more modern ones up to the limit.
(After all on January 10th, 1919 I don´t know yet about the economic difficulties in the 1920s.)

Generally I´d keep the most modern ships. If you have them for 20 years older ones make no sense.

Oh, and I´m using normal displacement here, not full displacement.

For capital ships:
The 2 Bayern class battleships (Bayern, Baden).
And then either 2 Derfflinger class battle cruisers (Hindenburg, Derfflinger) plus 1 König class battleship (Kronprinz) or 1 Derfflinger class battle cruiser (Hindenburg) plus 2 König class battleships (Kronprinz, Markgraf).
You can make arguments for both options. More speed or more armor.

The cruiser tonnage is really, really huge.
If you take all surviving 17 light cruisers with turbines you´re just a few thousand tons above the 80,000 tons limit.
So it´s every light cruiser with turbines except "Augsburg".
(I don´t count "Lübeck" here since she became a target ship in 1917.)
16 light cruisers.

For destroyers and torpedo boats?
The most modern ones, the larger ones.
H145 class (2 ships), V116 (1 ship), S131 class (9 ships), V125 class (7 ships), G101 class (4 ships), V100 (1 ship), B97 class (6 ships) and the 7 S53 subclass ships of the S49 class (because of their cruising steam turbine for one shaft).
All in all 37 ships.

If the Entente were equally generous with regards to aircraft, I´d keep the "Ausonia" too.

I´d modernize them during the 20 year period (all oil fired boilers for example).
 

Musketeer513

I agree assuming no new ships for 20 years. They keep the 2 Bayern, 1 Hindenburg and 2 Derfflinger. Don't know enough to comment about other classes.
 

Musketeer513

Correction: I agree assuming no new ships for 20 years. They keep the 2 Bayern, 1 Hindenburg, 1 Derfflinger and 1 Seydlitz. Don't know enough to comment about other classes.
 

HMS Warspite

Also there were 3 Mackensen class Battelcruisers present, some almost completed. Why not finish these three as well (at least officially), plus the Bayern class pair? Junk the older 11 and 12 inch ships and have a more or less homogeneous core of relatively powerful ships that could easily compete with foreign powers for years.
 

Deleted member 94680

Keep cruisers, with battlecruisers as squadron leaders. Trade off untaken capital ship tonnage for 'credit' to modernise where possible and forgo full on battleships.

Design the fleet for coastal defence with an eye for dominating the Baltic in the near future.

Battleships would antagonise the British and Americans and are unnecessary for a post-WWI Germany.
 

PSL

Saw this one posted on another form...but you've upped the tonnage, unless its max displacement ?
 

thaddeus

Donor
HMS Warspite said:
Also there were 3 Mackensen class Battelcruisers present, some almost completed. Why not finish these three as well (at least officially), plus the Bayern class pair? Junk the older 11 and 12 inch ships and have a more or less homogeneous core of relatively powerful ships that could easily compete with foreign powers for years.
Click to expand...

that would be most favorable deal for Germany, although hard to believe that , in addition to selecting ships, they would be allowed to keep 15" gun ships?

AND the navy might suspect (in a reasonable assumption) that the resources would be scare to finish ANYTHING?

they would be years ahead if they kept 4 -5 11" battlecruisers and ?? 8 - 10 cruisers compared to OTL? (although the Mackensen was so modern maybe they could agree to limit the caliber of guns? in order to retain those)
 

HMS Warspite

thaddeus said:
that would be most favorable deal for Germany, although hard to believe that , in addition to selecting ships, they would be allowed to keep 15" gun ships?

AND the navy might suspect (in a reasonable assumption) that the resources would be scare to finish ANYTHING?

they would be years ahead if they kept 4 -5 11" battlecruisers and ?? 8 - 10 cruisers compared to OTL? (although the Mackensen was so modern maybe they could agree to limit the caliber of guns? in order to retain those)
Click to expand...

Why is that? The restrictions did allow this, according to the suggestion mentioned. Why take anything less then? If someone offers you a certain maximum, only a fool would reject that. Try somethign like this on the USA today in the approaching Nuclear Arms negotiations with Russia! President Trump already mentioned to not continue with the armamentslimmitation, so neither would do any nation, if offered sich a thing.

Perhaps the Germans could accept this, if the UK would destroy all its Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers, The USA would restrict itself to a coast defence force of monitor like ships only and Japan would limmit its navy to sailing Sampan type ships only.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 94680

What's the POD that resulted in this more generous offer?
 

PSL

All displacements = maximum displacement

138kt capitalships
Von der Tann 21k

Moltke 25k

Seydlitz 29k

Derfflinger 31k

Hindenburg 32k



97 kt Kreuzers---------

2 Koln 7.5 kt

4 Königsberg 7.1 kt

2 Brummer 5.9kt

Frankfurt 6.6 kt
Pillau 5.2 kt

2 Strassburg 6.4kt

2 Karlsruhe 5.3 kt



25kt coastal defense. 22 x 1188t G96 Class or 36 x 700t S138 Class

5 x ½ flotilla each with 4 x TB G96 1180 t [3 x 4”L45 guns + 6 TT & 500nm @34kts or 2000@17kts or 2800@14kts]

---or-----

9 x ½ flotilla each with 4 x TB S138 700 t [2 x 4”L45 guns + 3 TT & 460nm@32knts or 2100@12kts
 

Deleted member 94680

Thomas1195 said:
A different British government, with a proto- Wilsonian PM.
It was Britain who held the balance between US and France.
Click to expand...

I can't see the British willingly allowing a competitor to the RN survive. Almost everything else could be bargained away, but control of the High Seas was critical to Britain's continuance as a Great Power. The opportunity to remove the HSF at a stroke is the RN's wet dream.
 

PSL

Then obviously the allies don't win the war as much as they did. British and French are bullied by the Americans into acceptance. America sees the need for a stronger central Europe to resist Communism from sweeping a weakened Europe.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Stenz said:
I can't see the British willingly allowing a competitor to the RN survive. Almost everything else could be bargained away, but control of the High Seas was critical to Britain's continuance as a Great Power. The opportunity to remove the HSF at a stroke is the RN's wet dream.
Click to expand...
I think this thread here is just keeping a very small number of ships. Maybe a maximum of 2 BCs (not BB) and 7-10 ships overall.

I did have a thread questioning the prospect of the Germanophile Haldane becoming PM.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top