the Free City of Danzig

HJ Tulp

Donor
I think building-Gdingen / getting-hold-of-Danzing is the classical example of government tendency to work on multiple parallel threads.

However it is interesting that the LoN tried to extablish some independent harbour city-states (Danzig, Fiume) after the Great War, and they all failed miserably.
Would it be possible for a city state to hang around?
If you were whoever-in-charge there, what kind of bargain would you accept the keep it alive?

Wasn't Tangiers somewhat succesfull?
 
Danzig was de iure independent until mid '30, but de facto it was administred as a polish territory at least from '27 (maybe even before).
I am not sure if the formal status of the city changed after '35, but the Warsaw government had a preponderant control on it

Huh, it was ruled by NSDAP and was generally hostile to Poland.
That's not really "de facto Polish territory" :confused:
 
Huh, it was ruled by NSDAP and was generally hostile to Poland.
That's not really "de facto Polish territory" :confused:

thus these guys were really just doing a family trip to visit their old uncle? :rolleyes:

I do not doubt that a fair share of the citizens was pro-german, but the administrators were chosen in Warsaw

familytrip.jpg
 
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thus these guys were really just doing a family trip to visit their old uncle? :rolleyes:

I do not doubt that a fair share of the citizen were pro-german, but the administrators were chosen in Warsaw

Do you have anything to back this up? From wikipedia*:
*yeah, I know, but it appears well-sourced.

The Free City was governed by the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, which was elected by the parliament (Volkstag) for a legislative period of four years. The official language was German,[10] the usage of Polish was guaranteed by law.[11][12] The political parties in the Free City corresponded with the political parties in Weimar Germany; the most influential parties in the 1920s were the conservative German National People's Party, the Social Democratic Party of the Free City of Danzig and the Catholic Centre Party. A Communist Party was founded in 1921 with its origins in the Spartacus League and the Communist Party of East Prussia. Several liberal parties and Free Voter's Associations existed and ran in the elections with varying success. A Polish Party represented the Polish minority and received between 3% (1933) and 6% (1920) of the vote (in total, 4,358 votes in 1933 and 9,321 votes in 1920).[13] Initially the Nazi Party had only a small amount of success (0.8% of the vote in 1927) and was even briefly dissolved.[3]
Its influence grew with the onset of difficult economic times and the increasing popularity of the Nazi Party in Germany proper. Albert Forster became the Gauleiter in October 1930. The Nazis won 50 percent of votes in the Volkstag elections of 28 May 1933. They took over the Senate in June 1933, and Hermann Rauschning becoming President of the Senate of Danzig.
Rauschning was removed from his position by Forster and replaced by Arthur Greiser in November 1934.[14] He later appealed to the public not to vote for the Nazis in the 1935 elections.[3] Political opposition to the Nazis was repressed[15] and several politicians imprisoned and murdered.[16][17] The economic policy of the Nazi government, which increased the public issues for employment-creation programs,[18] and the retrenchment of financial aid by the German Government[19] led to a devaluation of more than 40 % of the Danziger Gulden.[20] The Gold reserves of the Bank of Danzig declined from 30 million Gulden in 1933 to 13 million in 1935 and the foreign asset reserve from 10 million to 250,000 Gulden.[21]
As in Germany, the Nazis introduced an "Enabling Act" and the racialist Nuremberg laws (November 1938),[22] existing parties and Unions were gradually banned. The presence of the League of Nations however still guaranteed a minimum of legal certainty. In 1935, the oppositional parties, except for the Polish Party, filed a law suit to the Danzig High Court in protest against the manipulation of the Volkstag elections.[3][14] The opposition also protested to the League of Nations, as did the Jewish Community of Danzig.[23][24]
The anti-Jewish riots of the Kristallnacht of 9/10 November 1938 in Germany were repeated by similar riots on 12/13 November.[14][25] The Danzig Great Synagogue was taken over and demolished by the local authorities in 1939.

EDIT: I don't know what you're trying to prove with this photo.
According to google, it's the border crossing between the Danzig Free City and Poland near Sopot/Gdynia. If anything, it shows that Germans military was in control of the Danzig already by September 1st, which would be a bit strange if it was in fact "de facto Polish territory".
 
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Poland General Governor
Polish soldiers and weapon deposits
Polish warships in the harbour
Poland representing Danzig on foreign issues
Railway managed by poland
Poland having right of privileged treatment on goods
 
Poland General Governor
No.
Polish soldiers and weapon deposits
Token military presence of about 200 soldiers. No real control over the area (see 1939 Polish plans for occupation of Danzig - you don't occupy your own territory :))
Polish warships in the harbour
Not on a permanent basis.

Poland representing Danzig on foreign issues
Railway managed by poland
Poland having right of privileged treatment on goods

No Polish administration. No Polish influence on elections. No connection with with the Polish judiciary.
My point is that while Danzig wasn't fully independent or sovereign, it was largely self-governing, with the local government most of the time rather hostile to Polish interests. The common knowledge of it being basically part of Poland is one of my pet peeves :)
 
>Polish general Governor
No.
M Chodacki. my mistake on the title: Full title is Polish Commissioner-General. But the essence is that.
Poland's view was that it had "Full rights in Danzig" [sic]
Col. Wenda, Chief of Staff, Telegraph, july 1939

>Polish army
Token military presence of about 200 soldiers. No real control over the area (see 1939 Polish plans for occupation of Danzig - you don't occupy your own territory )
But it had right of station there.
On the other hand (diplomacy 1939) Poland was able to denounce as illegal the fact that there were private german citizens having weapons there.
Also, after the establishment of the westerplatte weapon depot the military presence scaled up considerably

> Polish Navy
Not on a permanent basis.
1931- 1939? I wish I cold cash the rent !

No Polish administration.
No polish direct administration.
LoN High Commissioner arbitring between Poland and City council regularly gave assent to Polish request

No Polish influence on elections.
Agree

No connection with with the Polish judiciary.
Agree on internal matterns but not on external ones.
Not Agree on external matters: see the LoN International Court of justice decisions

My point is that while Danzig wasn't fully independent or sovereign, it was largely self-governing, with the local government most of the time rather hostile to Polish interests.
Most of the people, and even most of the Council.
But disputes between the Polish government and the council was to the LoN High commissar, which was not.

military presence + mail + railroad + economic rights + control of foreign politics = de facto suzeranity
 
Wasn't he restricted to governing Polish institutions in Danzig?

Maybe de iure he was.
I was not the one giving the statement.
Also, considering the date (1939) it is possible that the statement was an hardening of the polish position and an escalation to outbid german demands.
but the point is that there was a polish delegate and he had control of several key services which are usually considered as part of "governing the city"
 
The German Reich is split up after World War 1 as the French wished into many City States and forbidden to unite as a single nation for 100 years. However the Germans get around this by creating an EU like system, so they may share free trade between the states and also laws. After an initial period of being under LoN control the Free City of Danzig technically becomes a protectorate of East Prussia in 1950.

Well, something like that may work...
 
The German Reich is split up after World War 1 as the French wished into many City States and forbidden to unite as a single nation for 100 years. However the Germans get around this by creating an EU like system, so they may share free trade between the states and also laws. After an initial period of being under LoN control the Free City of Danzig technically becomes a protectorate of East Prussia in 1950.

Well, something like that may work...

Maybe it might work, but it is not the point of the thread.
The point of the thread is: how the Danzig council (small fish among sharkes) could avoid being absorbed fot, let's say 20 years ('19-'39)?
If you were the one in charge there what sort of bargains would you make to remain in charge?
Notice that you cannot concede too much, or you will be absorbed de facto, and you cannot concede too little, or you are likely to be invaded
 
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