The treaty mentioned England, Burgundy, and France. No one else. The three couldn’t fight for ten years.
I mean there was a subsequent agreement between England and France that England would not attack English allies (Scotland). Granted, that was a part of a betrothal that ended, but France would still claim it was valid, there have been interpretations of treaties there more ‘out there’ in otl too. Plus, treaties aren’t exactly guarantors of peace.
 
I mean there was a subsequent agreement between England and France that England would not attack English allies (Scotland). Granted, that was a part of a betrothal that ended, but France would still claim it was valid, there have been interpretations of treaties there more ‘out there’ in otl too. Plus, treaties aren’t exactly guarantors of peace.
Yes, but I think the cause of war is super random.
 
Yes, but I think the cause of war is super random.
I mean, strictly speaking England started it and France just exploited it. Though I agree that the cause of the war between England and Scotland is… flimsy to say it best, but hey, there was a war over a football in otl so 🤷‍♂️
 
@Reyne @Prince of Permsia re: Burgundy.

Maybe alter the betrothal to say that Charles and his son will receive x amount of Francs as a dowry or alternatively, the County/Duchy of Burgundy should an adult Louis consent to it?
The question is more in the sense as to why the council would break their word, and offer Charles any piece of the royal domain at all, when both the men in charge are loyal to the Spider's vision for France and do not want to sell out the King's future for Charles. Evreux for his grandson is something I can see Charles' getting out of the council, but something as large as Burgundy, or Artois or Picardy, with the amount of effort the french have made to take back those from the rebellious Valois-Burgundy? Nah.
 
The question is more in the sense as to why the council would break their word, and offer Charles any piece of the royal domain at all, when both the men in charge are loyal to the Spider's vision for France and do not want to sell out the King's future for Charles. Evreux for his grandson is something I can see Charles' getting out of the council, but something as large as Burgundy, or Artois or Picardy, with the amount of effort the french have made to take back those from the rebellious Valois-Burgundy? Nah.
Fair, maybe some border forts and castles in Burgundy instead, alongside the promise of aid against the Swiss and/or Empire>
 
Fair, maybe some border forts and castles in Burgundy instead, alongside the promise of aid against the Swiss and/or Empire>
Charles don't hold anymore lands south of Wallonia so I doubt he'd try to get help to invade there. Everything south of Luxembourg (that includes both burgundies) was taken by France and Lorraine. Charles, should get however a promise of help in the Netherlands, which is what he was trying to get in my post. Charles also currently holds the essential borders of Belgium proper he'd probably ask for some Vermandese or Artois borderlands.
 
Charles don't hold anymore lands south of Wallonia so I doubt he'd try to get help to invade there. Everything south of Luxembourg (that includes both burgundies) was taken by France and Lorraine. Charles, should get however a promise of help in the Netherlands, which is what he was trying to get in my post. Charles also currently holds the essential borders of Belgium proper he'd probably ask for some Vermandese or Artois borderlands.
Maybe that then? Some Vermandese/Artois border towns/forts and a promise of aid against the Empire?
 
Maybe that then? Some Vermandese/Artois border towns/forts and a promise of aid against the Empire?
I think that makes the most sense. And Calais of course. Or maybe we could have Charles do the old tidbit of pushing his claim to the English throne like he did otl?
 
I think that makes the most sense. And Calais of course. Or maybe we could have Charles do the old tidbit of pushing his claim to the English throne like he did otl?
The first half does make sense, but when did Charles press his claim to England in otl?
 
Chapter 85 - A Costly Peace
February 1474: Edward IV, completely betrayed by his “allies” refuses to send his nephew to France. While many could blame him, it’s actually Marie of Burgundy’s fault. She completely blames her father for all the troubles and writes a letter telling him to “burn in the fiery pit for all eternity for his sins”. Edmund’s body is moved to England and buried in great ceremony. In Scotland, Isabel Neville gives birth to a daughter named Margaret. Her new husband, however, has died from an infection from the wounds. Isabel quite literally looses her mind. She screaming all hours of the day, trying to start fires, and begins eating her bedsheets. After she tries to kill her own daughter, a Scottish guard stabs her to death.

March 1474: Scotland agrees, after devastations in February, to return to the previous territory lines. The Scottish King frankly isn’t that invested in the war. He hands over baby Margaret Tudor, who really isn’t a threat at all. One source of joy comes into Edward’s life: his wife gives birth to a beautiful and healthy son named Edmund, who is Duke of Monmouth.

April 1474: Edward IV signs a treaty with France. He won’t get Normandy, or Calais, but he gets a lump sum of monies and Princess Charlotte of France. Edward leaves completely depressed, but surprisingly, someone else at court is plotting revenge: Dowager Duchess Marie, who’s taking care of her stepchildren and son. She’s enraged with France and Burgundy. Left pregnant when her husband died, Marie gives birth to a daughter named after the Virgin. In Portugal, things get stirred up when Infante Denis, a small and frightened little child, gets sick with some sort of respiratory disease. He’s alive, but most historians would now diagnose him with severe asthma. Margaret is allowed back into the Cortes.

Births:
Margaret Tudor, daughter of Henry Tudor and Isabel Neville
Edmund, Duke of Monmouth, son of Edward IV and Eleanor of Naples
Mary of York, daughter of Edmund, Duke of York and Marie of Burgundy

Deaths:
Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond
Isabel Neville, Countess of Richmond

Betrothals:
Lionel, Prince of Wales to Charlotte of France
 
Chapter 86 - A Sinful Threat
May 1474: Charlotte of France arrives in England, but her dowry does not, despite previous agreements to hand over some money. Infuriated, Edward IV writes a letter to the French king, demanding he hand over a dowry or he will have Charlotte raised in either a brothel or a convent. While he isn't serious (and he tells the girl herself that), he does need to show that he will not be a pushover. The king of France replies that he has other female relatives and that losing one will not be the end of the world. A horrified Charlotte pleads to be allowed to spend her time in the queen's household but Eleanor refuses.
 
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I plan on addressing this in my next post. I am putting it down to an overload my bellicose French diplomat. The Duke of Bourbon will not be pleased and the tensions will be intresting to explore
 
May 1474: Charlotte of France arrives in England, but her dowry does not, despite previous agreements to hand over some money. Infuriated, Edward IV writes a letter to the French king, demanding he hand over a dowry or he will have Charlotte raised in either a brothel or a convent. The king of France replies that he has other female relatives and that losing one will not be the end of the world. A horrified Charlotte pleads to be allowed to spend her time in the queen's household but Eleanor refuses.
It’s also entirely out of character for both Edward and Eleanor, who love children, to force a child into a brothel of all things.
 
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