The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
Driftless
Donor
Is this Dingo, more-or-less as OTL? Or, is it a bit of a cross with the India pattern in form?
It's basically the OTL Dingo. I couldn't find any reason why it couldn't have been designed and built a year or two earlier, except they didn't seem to have much interest in armoured cars. Since now they are going to use them instead of the (much more expensive) light tanks, the firms will build them.
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Dreadful Franco-French communications were one of the major reasons behind the disaster in 1940. They'd planned for a 1918-style war where motorcycle despatch riders were adequate for communication between units and between the HQ and the front. And they were paranoid about using radio in case it gave away the position of their HQs. Once the front broke, the crisis developed far to fast for their communications to keep up - and then units got displaced, lost contact and could not longer coordinate even with other French units operating in the same area.
Yes, there isn't really anything TTL can do about French-French communications. French-British? Maybe, to a very limited extent.
Mind, the Germans weren't exactly the pinnacle of perfection either - more than once they themselves had no idea what their spearhead units were doing or where they were!
I think at one point Rommel deliberately misled HQ about the location of his division - by having his radio units stay behind and transmit from where he'd been told to be, while the rest of the division charged onwards. The difference was that the German command/control system was flexible enough to handle a rapidly evolving situation.
Dec 37
2nd December 1937
Tests had been done at MEE with an A13 with additional armour bolted on to simulate the new thicker armour requested. This seemed to have worked well, and the speed even with the extra 1 1/2 tons of weight is still 30mph. While the MEE still had to finish its long term reliability testing, the need for cruiser tanks means that an order for 70 tanks would be placed within a few weeks (allowing for a tank battalion plus training vehicles). Even so, the need to set up for full production meant that the tanks would not be delivered until between September 1938 and March 1939.
Vickers offer to increase the protection on the A10* to 50mm frontal and 40mm sides/rear. This is based on reports that the new SOUMA 35 tank has nearly 50mm or frontal armour. They have done some tests, and find that while the weight goes up to over 19 tons, the handling seems unaffected. The maximum speed is now 29mph, slightly slower than the original spec, but this had been found in practice to be a bit faster than the recommended max speed anyway. While materials for the first production tanks are already being collected, they could offer this from about the 40th tank onwards as a Mk2 version.
Even with an additional 70 cruiser tanks, the planned Mobile division would be well under strength, and tanks would not be arriving till next year. A further order was placed with Vickers and Harland & Wolf for the A10*Mk2, 50 tanks from each company.
Having passed its trials, the new SP gun is ready to be ordered. An initial order is placed with Vickers for 30 vehicles - enough to support a tank brigade. This uses the mechanicals from the A10*, and the Army requests that they aim to get the gun built in parallel with the tank, rather than making it an add on order. Vickers have been thinking about this, and suggest that with a bit more of the seed money for industry, they can expand the tank shop at Elsham to speed up the process. This is agreed in principle once money can be arranged. This would allow the guns to be delivered only slightly later than the full tank order.
In addition, an order is placed for some of the new Lloyd carriers. These are intended to be built in the main by motor companies, as apart from the armour they are mainly using commercial components. Much simpler to build than a tank, Lloyd has suggested that the first vehicles can be delivered in 6 months, then at the rate of about 20 a month. This could be increased to 30/month if a second company is used to build them. The army want to use the first batch to try our various uses for the carriers, as well as moving infantry around - the smaller carrier has shown that they are very versatile, and a number of additional uses have already been considered. Accordingly they place an initial order for 100 closed and 50 open vehicles.
16th December 1937
Lord Gort had been dining in his club after a long day of meetings in the War Office, where a decision had been made to order the first 100 of the new scout car, to be named the Daimler Dingo. Having a quiet drink before eating, he ran into Sir Richard Fairey. Gort had been keenly interested in aviation for some years, having taken up flying in 1932 in his own Tiger Moth, and the chance to chat with one of the leading names in aviation was welcome.
While this was a social meeting, Gort couldn't help but ask about how things were going with aircraft that could be used by the Army. Sir Richard then gave him chapter and verse about the issues he'd been having with the Air Ministry over his latest plane, the Fairey Battle. Gort was sympathetic - he had, after all, his own issues with various ministries. He was surprised to learn how the Air Ministry had kept trying to cancel orders for the plane, despite it more than meeting their original specification, and their shortage of modern aircraft. Apparently the previous Chief of the Air Staff, Ellington, had had some sort of personal vendetta against the plane. While the current Chief, Newall, wasn't so personally antagonistic, he was still trying to cut the order down.
Sir Richard was most upset by the way the Air Ministry kept changing their mind about the plane's role. First it was a long range day bomber, then a shorter range plane, then a long range night bomber, and so on. Each time using the changes to claim the plane was obsolete. Gort sympathised - he'd and the Army had had their own problems with the Air Ministry over the planes for the support of the Army, and while some of the officers assigned were helpful and positive, the senior members seemed to look on the Army as something unnecessary and so not worthy of any efforts to support them.
"You know" Sir Richard had said "if they weren't so fixated on it being a long range bomber, I could make some changes and it would be a far better aircraft for supporting your chaps than those old Hinds. But the Air Ministry doesn't seem interested."
Gort left that evening with an idea burgeoning in his head about the problem of Air Support, which the men in charge of the armoured force in particular had been stressing for some time.
12th January 1938
General Martel considered it somewhat ironic that he'd been asked to review and approve the changes to the Army's bridging equipment, considering his own role in developing it in the first place.
The problem wasn't so much the design of the bridging equipment, but the steady increase in the weight, in particular the weight of tanks, that they needed to carry. The bridging units currently in the possession of the army were the Large Box Girder Bridge, the first military equipment bridge in the world to use prefabricated box shaped sections.
When Major Gifford Martel (as he was then) had taken command of the newly formed Experimental Bridging Establishment, his first task had been to continue trials with the Canal Lock Assault and Inglis bridges but he had also started work on what was to be his most important contribution to military bridging.
He identified that with the Inglis Bridge and Stock Spans a considerable proportion of the weight and build time was taken up with providing the roadway, they lacked adaptability and in the case of the Inglis Bridge, expensive.
He therefore developed an entirely new concept that would use common building blocks to form different length bridges, each section pinned together as necessary depending on the length and load carrying requirement. It was these modularity that would later be developed in the Bailey Bridge.
Launching was normally carried out using gin derricks and shear legs as described in the previous post on construction bridging but cantilevering the bridge across a gap was also carried out. Once to two girders were in place they were adjusted to the correct spacing the decking planks placed across them with ever fifth being oversize to accommodate a footway. Angle iron was pinned in place to form a curb.
The Mk II he was currently reviewing was to be introduced in 1938 with a number of changes; a larger main box unit, a new hornbeam, higher strength steels and new chrome molybdenum pins. The new bridge in 4 girder form could accommodate Class 24 loads at a span of 130 feet. This should allow for the bridges to carry even the new heavy infantry tanks without risk.
Tests had been done at MEE with an A13 with additional armour bolted on to simulate the new thicker armour requested. This seemed to have worked well, and the speed even with the extra 1 1/2 tons of weight is still 30mph. While the MEE still had to finish its long term reliability testing, the need for cruiser tanks means that an order for 70 tanks would be placed within a few weeks (allowing for a tank battalion plus training vehicles). Even so, the need to set up for full production meant that the tanks would not be delivered until between September 1938 and March 1939.
Vickers offer to increase the protection on the A10* to 50mm frontal and 40mm sides/rear. This is based on reports that the new SOUMA 35 tank has nearly 50mm or frontal armour. They have done some tests, and find that while the weight goes up to over 19 tons, the handling seems unaffected. The maximum speed is now 29mph, slightly slower than the original spec, but this had been found in practice to be a bit faster than the recommended max speed anyway. While materials for the first production tanks are already being collected, they could offer this from about the 40th tank onwards as a Mk2 version.
Even with an additional 70 cruiser tanks, the planned Mobile division would be well under strength, and tanks would not be arriving till next year. A further order was placed with Vickers and Harland & Wolf for the A10*Mk2, 50 tanks from each company.
Having passed its trials, the new SP gun is ready to be ordered. An initial order is placed with Vickers for 30 vehicles - enough to support a tank brigade. This uses the mechanicals from the A10*, and the Army requests that they aim to get the gun built in parallel with the tank, rather than making it an add on order. Vickers have been thinking about this, and suggest that with a bit more of the seed money for industry, they can expand the tank shop at Elsham to speed up the process. This is agreed in principle once money can be arranged. This would allow the guns to be delivered only slightly later than the full tank order.
In addition, an order is placed for some of the new Lloyd carriers. These are intended to be built in the main by motor companies, as apart from the armour they are mainly using commercial components. Much simpler to build than a tank, Lloyd has suggested that the first vehicles can be delivered in 6 months, then at the rate of about 20 a month. This could be increased to 30/month if a second company is used to build them. The army want to use the first batch to try our various uses for the carriers, as well as moving infantry around - the smaller carrier has shown that they are very versatile, and a number of additional uses have already been considered. Accordingly they place an initial order for 100 closed and 50 open vehicles.
16th December 1937
Lord Gort had been dining in his club after a long day of meetings in the War Office, where a decision had been made to order the first 100 of the new scout car, to be named the Daimler Dingo. Having a quiet drink before eating, he ran into Sir Richard Fairey. Gort had been keenly interested in aviation for some years, having taken up flying in 1932 in his own Tiger Moth, and the chance to chat with one of the leading names in aviation was welcome.
While this was a social meeting, Gort couldn't help but ask about how things were going with aircraft that could be used by the Army. Sir Richard then gave him chapter and verse about the issues he'd been having with the Air Ministry over his latest plane, the Fairey Battle. Gort was sympathetic - he had, after all, his own issues with various ministries. He was surprised to learn how the Air Ministry had kept trying to cancel orders for the plane, despite it more than meeting their original specification, and their shortage of modern aircraft. Apparently the previous Chief of the Air Staff, Ellington, had had some sort of personal vendetta against the plane. While the current Chief, Newall, wasn't so personally antagonistic, he was still trying to cut the order down.
Sir Richard was most upset by the way the Air Ministry kept changing their mind about the plane's role. First it was a long range day bomber, then a shorter range plane, then a long range night bomber, and so on. Each time using the changes to claim the plane was obsolete. Gort sympathised - he'd and the Army had had their own problems with the Air Ministry over the planes for the support of the Army, and while some of the officers assigned were helpful and positive, the senior members seemed to look on the Army as something unnecessary and so not worthy of any efforts to support them.
"You know" Sir Richard had said "if they weren't so fixated on it being a long range bomber, I could make some changes and it would be a far better aircraft for supporting your chaps than those old Hinds. But the Air Ministry doesn't seem interested."
Gort left that evening with an idea burgeoning in his head about the problem of Air Support, which the men in charge of the armoured force in particular had been stressing for some time.
12th January 1938
General Martel considered it somewhat ironic that he'd been asked to review and approve the changes to the Army's bridging equipment, considering his own role in developing it in the first place.
The problem wasn't so much the design of the bridging equipment, but the steady increase in the weight, in particular the weight of tanks, that they needed to carry. The bridging units currently in the possession of the army were the Large Box Girder Bridge, the first military equipment bridge in the world to use prefabricated box shaped sections.
When Major Gifford Martel (as he was then) had taken command of the newly formed Experimental Bridging Establishment, his first task had been to continue trials with the Canal Lock Assault and Inglis bridges but he had also started work on what was to be his most important contribution to military bridging.
He identified that with the Inglis Bridge and Stock Spans a considerable proportion of the weight and build time was taken up with providing the roadway, they lacked adaptability and in the case of the Inglis Bridge, expensive.
He therefore developed an entirely new concept that would use common building blocks to form different length bridges, each section pinned together as necessary depending on the length and load carrying requirement. It was these modularity that would later be developed in the Bailey Bridge.
Launching was normally carried out using gin derricks and shear legs as described in the previous post on construction bridging but cantilevering the bridge across a gap was also carried out. Once to two girders were in place they were adjusted to the correct spacing the decking planks placed across them with ever fifth being oversize to accommodate a footway. Angle iron was pinned in place to form a curb.
The Mk II he was currently reviewing was to be introduced in 1938 with a number of changes; a larger main box unit, a new hornbeam, higher strength steels and new chrome molybdenum pins. The new bridge in 4 girder form could accommodate Class 24 loads at a span of 130 feet. This should allow for the bridges to carry even the new heavy infantry tanks without risk.
Great stuff. For those who are reading many works and struggling to remember all the details, can we have a recap please on how many A10* have been ordered and when these are expected to be delivered by?
It's a lot fewer than people probably think. In fact, they are going to build a lot LESS tanks than OTL...
But, we trust the unbuilt tanks are the light models, replaced by cheaper Scout and Armoured Cars.It's a lot fewer than people probably think. In fact, they are going to build a lot LESS tanks than OTL...
Leading to more and better cruisers and infantry tanks being built than OTL. Plus a few SPGs and other specialist AFVs.
Although better doctrine for both small unit (up to battalion size) and larger formations is the main "demand" from your adoring readers. Well, me anyway!
Actually its the new, better doctrine that is driving the specifications for the tanks. Which is why, as they are considered useless, they have pretty much stopped building the light tanks. That does free resources up for more medium tanks, without needing a lot more money from the treasury. Once they get enough for a full Brigade, they will look at the specialist vehicles and start practicing the new doctrine more rigorously
This is actually an OTL quote, but there will be some other effects
