The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

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Icedaemon

Icedaemon

Sorairo said:
His seven-hour reign is the shortest duration of a US President in history, and likely will be for a long time. He was also the last President to represent the Democrat Party.
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Well. Wallace managing to effectively kill off the Democratic party I did not expect. I am guessing it's more of a fade into irrelevance then, with more and more people jumping ship - the few remaining dixiecrats for the Freedumb party, the moderates for the Republicans and the leftists for a new party which stresses that they are American first, socialist second, with only a handful of loyalists remaining with a party which has lost basically all support?

Sorairo said:
Truman was dragged even more thoroughly through the dirt, with Fielding Wright, Governor of Mississippi and a leading member of the Freedom Party saying, ‘even if he weren’t a spy he should be hanged for being so danged stupid to work with that jack in the box’. Truman would attempt for all his life to deny charges that he was a Communist agent but it wasn’t until close to his deathbed that passions had cooled to the point a historical appraisal was possible and people could realise how horribly he had been treated by all sides. Even still, he had a far better fate than other members of the Wallace Adminstration.
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The poor guy does the decent thing and cedes power effective immediately to the Republican house leader and is still hounded? Should it not be obvious at least to academics and people with real power that Truman was pretty much trapped - without 100% hard evidence of outright treason, he couldn't act against his own president without being labelled a traitorous rat.
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
Icedaemon said:
The poor guy does the decent thing and cedes power effective immediately to the Republican house leader and is still hounded? Should it not be obvious at least to academics and people with real power that Truman was pretty much trapped - without 100% hard evidence of outright treason, he couldn't act against his own president without being labelled a traitorous rat.
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Uh, considering that the Cold War enemy NUKED Poland, you can imagine that people are more then a little bit irrational. I mean, the international situation has NEVER been that bad OTL. ITTL you don't need to be McCarthy to think that the Kremlin is full of madmen who want to destroy America.

It sucks that Truman has been dragged through the mud, but it is kind of natural.
 

Drizzt

Icedaemon said:
Should it not be obvious at least to academics and people with real power that Truman was pretty much trapped - without 100% hard evidence of outright treason, he couldn't act against his own president without being labelled a traitorous rat.
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Expect that last sentence is really the most charitable interpretation of Truman. Don't get me wrong, I agree that judging from the latest update Trumans reputation is probably about a dozen times worse then he deserves. But I wouldn't consider him entirely blameless here. Because if you assume both, that:
1. He was NOT "in on it".
2. In order to rise as far in life as he did he can't be a completely idiot who was fully duped the entire time.

Then the obvious conclusion is that Truman probably strongly suspected the level of Soviet penetration of the White House, but looked the other way out of Partisanship.
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
Drizzt said:
Expect that last sentence is really the most charitable interpretation of Truman. Don't get me wrong, I agree that judging from the latest update Trumans reputation is probably about a dozen times worse then he deserves. But I wouldn't consider him entirely blameless here. Because if you assume both, that:
1. He was NOT "in on it".
2. In order to rise as far in life as he did he can't be a completely idiot who was fully duped the entire time.

Then the obvious conclusion is that Truman probably strongly suspected the level of Soviet penetration of the White House, but looked the other way out of Partisanship.
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Yeah, pretty much.

As harsh as it is for Truman to be dragged in front of McCarthy, it would be natural for people to seriously ask if Truman knew something and just looked the other way.
 

Wet Coast

Drizzt said:
Then the obvious conclusion is that Truman probably strongly suspected the level of Soviet penetration of the White House, but looked the other way out of Partisanship.
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I think the future in this TTL will have one of two opinions about Truman, neither being especially favourable.

1. He knew or suspected something but chose to stay rather than resign. This view would see him as either somewhat complicit or choosing position over principle.
2. He did not know or suspect anything. This view would see him as naive and gullible, not exactly the best attributes for a leader.

General cynicism over politicians would drive the view towards the more negative interpretations.
 

joelee77

I think it’s been mentioned that Truman stayed rather than allow Wallace to handpick a Vice President and this his successor if impeached. Certainly not an explanation that will satisfy many at that moment, but one that makes him a tragic figure ITTL.
 
Kingfish Chris

Kingfish Chris

Since the Freedom Party has the KKK work as the Freedom Party's Militia, it would be interesting to the Freedom Party decides to create it own Paramilitary Wing called the Freedom Guard instead of relying on the Klan for protection, although the Freedom Guard would consist of Ex-Klansmen.

Also with the Democrats failing due to Wallace's incompetence, would we see groups splitting off of the Democrats and forming their own parties?

I could imagine splinter parties forming from the Democrats like the:
  • United Kingfish Party (A Party that wishes to follow Huey Long's Ideology and his Policies)
  • New Deal Party (Consisting of former Democrats who wish to continue FDR's Legacy)
  • Progressive Democratic Party (A Leftist Party following Social Democratic system founded by former Democrats)
  • National Democratic Party (An offshoot of the Democratic Party formed by Fascist Sympathizers, not Fascist in that they reject Authoritarianism, but they are inspired by Fascist Corporatist Economics and Far-Right Nationalism)
 
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Darth_Kiryan

Sorairo said:
Amazingly, that wasn’t the only act of insanity that happened on April 27th in Washington. With Wallace out, Harry Truman had officially become the President of the United States. However, having been locked in the middle of the most brutal political crisis in American political history, multiple suspected Soviet spies still in the administration and his name having been thoroughly dragged through the mud through Wallace’s association, to say he was unenthusiastic was an understatement. At sunset on April 27th, Truman shocked his associates by saying that he didn’t want to be President and resigned. Thus, the first successful Presidential impeachment and resignation occurred on one day, which would become known in American history as ‘The Day of Three Presidents’. Truman was later affirmed to have been President by subsequent court decisions, which paved the way for the 22nd Amendment. His seven-hour reign is the shortest duration of a US President in history, and likely will be for a long time. He was also the last President to represent the Democrat Party.
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Damn.

Poor Truman. A man such as him does not deserve this legacy.
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

akoslows said:
Considering how the New Deal could possibly be considered part of Wallace's legacy since he wholeheartedly supported it, I'd be surprised if Patton doesn't completely butcher it when he becomes President.
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I am not sure Patton is the issue there. Patton was not eager to jump into politics. It seems to me other than seeing the 'traitors and spies' dealt with Patton's focus will be more outside the USA than within, with the notable exception of the military. Policies like the New Deal and civil rights I think will be more delegated to his Republican backers.

So the question of the New Deal's fate my be less to do with Patton and more on who will hold power in the Republican party for the next four years.

And in addition to the establishment there will be the demagogues like McCarthy, who may go after policy making as well as their witch hunts. How well or poorly they work with the Republican establishment will determine alot.
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
RyuDrago said:
Well, what a shocking flip of events in the US. But it was a very outstanding chapter.

Arriving to even disregard the existence of the Soviet Union diplomatically... That's quite a very harsh burn towards Moscow, even for the most anticommunist government. I don't think there isn't another TL where the US took such a decision. And now we are going to have a Korean war x10 in China.

But again, I guess Warsaw really marked a red line the USSR shouldn't have crossed. In a certain way denying the legitimacy of the USSR would be a strong signal - not to Stalin, because won't give a damn, but for the bunch of sycophants around him. The problem is for how much far the dictator pushed the Union, would be hard for their eventual successors to reverse the damage done. Besides the USSR resisted OTL after the process of destalinization. Here there may not be even a denounce...
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Regaining relations with the Soviet Union is politically impossible at this point. Again, Wallace's misjudgments mean that détente is virtually impossible. NO future American President wants to become a Wallace. No person wants to be accused of "selling Europe out again." And Stalin's increasingly harsh antisemitism and other dark deeds are going only dig the USSR's reputation deeper.

There is only one possible way that the USSR can regain even a shred of credibility once Stalin keels over: let Poland and the other satellite states be free.

The problem is that the even if Stalin's successors have the tact to denounce the nuking of Warsaw, they are still hardcore Russian nationalists through and through. They will not relinquish any attempt and securing their border.

Barring some Gorbachev-style reform, and the USSR will remain broken for a long time.
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

Any thoughts on how nukes will be kept out of the Chinese War after stalemate ensues? I had some ideas:

For the US it will be their allies who will be fearful of retaliation. Also fears of such among certain Republicans lending support to that.

For Stalin I think he will be hesitant to start WWIII as the USSR is still in bad shape and funneling resources to help China already. Given Stalin going off the deep end he may even suspect Mao is plotting against him trying to trick him into overstretching. Also the Soviets are likely going to be supporting the Arab states in the Middle East soon.

Hmm, yeah the Soviets between the ITTL peace and Stalin's breakdown are pretty much worked over.
 
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