Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Sorairo, Feb 20, 2019.
Arreviderci dumb ass Wallace
Oh man, you really summarized just how much Wallace screwed himself.
Buchanan OTL at least made an attempt to defend his actions, but Wallace ITTL won't be able to show his own face in public, with his whole actions totally discredited.
1948 wasn't really the time for a whole Southern Strategy type candidacy. OTL Harry Truman still managed to win a good number of Southern states, because back then union labor was still important, and the population was much, much poorer.
TTL, I don't think Patton could really get away with destroying the New Deal, especially during a period with recession.
Well. Wallace managing to effectively kill off the Democratic party I did not expect. I am guessing it's more of a fade into irrelevance then, with more and more people jumping ship - the few remaining dixiecrats for the Freedumb party, the moderates for the Republicans and the leftists for a new party which stresses that they are American first, socialist second, with only a handful of loyalists remaining with a party which has lost basically all support?
The poor guy does the decent thing and cedes power effective immediately to the Republican house leader and is still hounded? Should it not be obvious at least to academics and people with real power that Truman was pretty much trapped - without 100% hard evidence of outright treason, he couldn't act against his own president without being labelled a traitorous rat.
Uh, considering that the Cold War enemy NUKED Poland, you can imagine that people are more then a little bit irrational. I mean, the international situation has NEVER been that bad OTL. ITTL you don't need to be McCarthy to think that the Kremlin is full of madmen who want to destroy America.
It sucks that Truman has been dragged through the mud, but it is kind of natural.
Vote for Patton and we’ll all be happy.
Expect that last sentence is really the most charitable interpretation of Truman. Don't get me wrong, I agree that judging from the latest update Trumans reputation is probably about a dozen times worse then he deserves. But I wouldn't consider him entirely blameless here. Because if you assume both, that:
1. He was NOT "in on it".
2. In order to rise as far in life as he did he can't be a completely idiot who was fully duped the entire time.
Then the obvious conclusion is that Truman probably strongly suspected the level of Soviet penetration of the White House, but looked the other way out of Partisanship.
Yeah, pretty much.
As harsh as it is for Truman to be dragged in front of McCarthy, it would be natural for people to seriously ask if Truman knew something and just looked the other way.
I think the future in this TTL will have one of two opinions about Truman, neither being especially favourable.
1. He knew or suspected something but chose to stay rather than resign. This view would see him as either somewhat complicit or choosing position over principle.
2. He did not know or suspect anything. This view would see him as naive and gullible, not exactly the best attributes for a leader.
General cynicism over politicians would drive the view towards the more negative interpretations.
I think it’s been mentioned that Truman stayed rather than allow Wallace to handpick a Vice President and this his successor if impeached. Certainly not an explanation that will satisfy many at that moment, but one that makes him a tragic figure ITTL.
Since the Freedom Party has the KKK work as the Freedom Party's Militia, it would be interesting to the Freedom Party decides to create it own Paramilitary Wing called the Freedom Guard instead of relying on the Klan for protection, although the Freedom Guard would consist of Ex-Klansmen.
Also with the Democrats failing due to Wallace's incompetence, would we see groups splitting off of the Democrats and forming their own parties?
I could imagine splinter parties forming from the Democrats like the:
United Kingfish Party (A Party that wishes to follow Huey Long's Ideology and his Policies)
New Deal Party (Consisting of former Democrats who wish to continue FDR's Legacy)
Progressive Democratic Party (A Leftist Party following Social Democratic system founded by former Democrats)
National Democratic Party (An offshoot of the Democratic Party formed by Fascist Sympathizers, not Fascist in that they reject Authoritarianism, but they are inspired by Fascist Corporatist Economics and Far-Right Nationalism)
Heck I belive He actually suspected it himself to, theirs a reference to how he never spoke in front of the “four”.
Also I’m now kinda wondering how much worse it really would of been if Wallace had been a Soviet spy, considering all the damage already, I don’t know what could of trumped it.
It wouldn’t have been as bad.
Stalin would never have dared try some of this.
Poor Truman. A man such as him does not deserve this legacy.
I am not sure Patton is the issue there. Patton was not eager to jump into politics. It seems to me other than seeing the 'traitors and spies' dealt with Patton's focus will be more outside the USA than within, with the notable exception of the military. Policies like the New Deal and civil rights I think will be more delegated to his Republican backers.
So the question of the New Deal's fate my be less to do with Patton and more on who will hold power in the Republican party for the next four years.
And in addition to the establishment there will be the demagogues like McCarthy, who may go after policy making as well as their witch hunts. How well or poorly they work with the Republican establishment will determine alot.
Regaining relations with the Soviet Union is politically impossible at this point. Again, Wallace's misjudgments mean that détente is virtually impossible. NO future American President wants to become a Wallace. No person wants to be accused of "selling Europe out again." And Stalin's increasingly harsh antisemitism and other dark deeds are going only dig the USSR's reputation deeper.
There is only one possible way that the USSR can regain even a shred of credibility once Stalin keels over: let Poland and the other satellite states be free.
The problem is that the even if Stalin's successors have the tact to denounce the nuking of Warsaw, they are still hardcore Russian nationalists through and through. They will not relinquish any attempt and securing their border.
Barring some Gorbachev-style reform, and the USSR will remain broken for a long time.
Any thoughts on how nukes will be kept out of the Chinese War after stalemate ensues? I had some ideas:
For the US it will be their allies who will be fearful of retaliation. Also fears of such among certain Republicans lending support to that.
For Stalin I think he will be hesitant to start WWIII as the USSR is still in bad shape and funneling resources to help China already. Given Stalin going off the deep end he may even suspect Mao is plotting against him trying to trick him into overstretching. Also the Soviets are likely going to be supporting the Arab states in the Middle East soon.
Hmm, yeah the Soviets between the ITTL peace and Stalin's breakdown are pretty much worked over.
With all of the support that we're giving to this guy he'll end up winning all of the 50 states
Broke, Broken and Despised: The Soviet Union in a Nutshell
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