Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Sorairo, Feb 20, 2019.
Oh Russia, you will regret ever existing after this.
Someone in the GOP who should know better jump the gun to launch his own political career might be the problem. Carrying a Wallace's proverbial head on a pike all the way to th White House could be too tempting of a political launchpad for some, no matter what party seniors' say. ATL Newt Gingrich could have read this story and use it on his bid for an office later thinking 'He failed last time, but I'm sure I can nail this'.
And that could give Wallace an opening to exlain his case to the public too, even though the result is a forgone conclusion. But killing Wallace would only make him a communist martyr. Doesn't mean much now but if or when communism resurface decades later...
I sure hope that there is no neo-communist movements in the future ITTL. The ideology should die with Stalin and Mao.
They will act more like Neo-Nazis rather than OTL commies. Maybe, they could even bond over their hatred of Jewry.
Depends on what you mean by communism.
It's about as dead as Jacobinism was after Metternich.
Actually the only one who came close to being impeached was Andrew Johnson who came within one vote. The House voted for impeachment by a 2/3rds majority and it only failed in the Senate trial by one vote.
hm, wonder if in OTL all hoover´s files were released - what that have been a net gain or loss for the US in the long run?
Probably neither the one or the another. There would be a ruckus in US internal debate, some country hostile could use it as sort of propaganda, then it would fizzle down.
Oh man, by this rate, forget just "Worst President in American History", Wallace will be thanking the gods if he ends up in a jail cell. As opposed to being ripped apart by an angry mob.
I think at the moment Angry Mob coming with torch and pitchforks, Patton would step in and said that Wallace would be tried as the commie rot need to be carefully rooted out instead of having "the head" cut off.
Unfortunately that would mean any idealists with the same view with Wallace would end up thrown in jail and even executed too...
Speaking of Wallace being possibly removed as a Communist Spy, any word on potential Fascist Parties or Movements coming to rise in America?
There might be those minor parties and people who admire the Fascist ideology but they are just as strong as the CPUSA and Far Left movements. While the Polish war is occupying the headlines most people remember the war against Germany.
Wallace can be impeached for sure but any subsequent prosecution is going to be difficult if espionage is the charge. He did make some unwise decisions after the end of WW2 but that's in his job description. Spilling the beans on the Manhattan project to Stalin was probably a crime but as Soviets were then allies it's a very grey area. Malfeasance in office can probably be established.
I'm not exactly expecting a Fascist party to rise to prominence in America, the Democrats and Republicans at this point are far too entrenched in their position for a third party to take power, Orthodox Fascism being more popular or no.
And yes, I still think that, despite Wallace, the Dems aren't going to end up going the way of the Whigs, at worse, it'll be just like Reconstruction-era U.S. where the Republicans basically dominated the Presidency for a generation.
Or maybe I'm being far too optimistic for my own good.
For what is worth I entierly agree with your assessment. I think that in TTL the "totalitarianism apologism double-standard" that's favouring Socialism in OTL is going in favour Fascism in TTL. With Fascist movements all over academia and the like, who's litany will be how Hitler wasn't true Fascism, Mussolinis was. Then moving on to their next Fascist saviour once Mussolinis dark side can no longer be ignored, while simultaneously anything Socialist is denounced as "Just like Stalin!". With that being restricted to the fringe-though, especially once a milder Cold-War with the Fascist block develops.
I would however add to that that the saying about "Communism is just like Nazism with the serial numbers filed off" works both ways. I could certainly see movements that call themselves "Workers Fascism" to emerge not just in the US, but all over the Western World, that in it's members, rhetoric, stated goals, etc are 99% identical to modern fringe-left movements. After all significant state-control over the economy is part of Fascist doctrine as it is. It just tends to result in Corporatism in practice.
I think people are downplaying how scarring the Red Scare was. Not as blatantly awful as Stalinism but just ask Latin America or Vietnam for example what a USA hyped up to fight communism tends to do. For that matter ask MLK and domestic union leaders....
Its gonna be a rather rough time.
You wouldn't need fascism in the USA - just a succession of strong populist presidents. With the Democrats imploding and the Freedom party mostly confined to the South, the opportunity for the Republicans to create a dynastic succession (perhaps the Kennedy clan now they have crossed the floor) is pretty strong.
I wonder right now how the TTL legacy of FDR would be. I don't think the Republicans will go dirty in forecasting shadows of doubt over him, but may downplay his historic role and tempted to ask, why he choose Wallace? The Democrats eventually may say in defense (my guessing), FDR was a great president, he died too soon, he never suspected Wallace was like that, he was in good faith back then, etc.
Also the President has a huge amount of leeway in conducting foreign affairs. I don't think its sedition or treason or anything for a President to give information to a then-ally in the belief that giving the information would further US foreign policy objectives.
I get why people are upset, but not every massive feckless blunder is or ought to be criminal.
Yeah, but Wallace did what he did on what he believed was good faith.
I agree that the Republicans will not besmirch FDR's role in what he did, but I think historians of TTL would probably rate him as a more middle-of-the-road president. Weird I'm saying this about FDR, because his one screw-up TTL was choosing Wallace as VP, but it'd be one of those cases where the screw-up wound up being big enough in hindsight that it overshadowed anything positive FDR may have achieved.
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