The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Sorairo, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Arlos Sad monarchist Donor

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    De Gaulle was a Monarchist. Surprise.

    Reich isn’t a negative word by itself, it does not even mean empire, not really, Granted it did get a bad name because of Hitler and his Cronies, just calling it Kaiserreich should be fine.
     
  2. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    What do you expect?!

    Putin is bad, but he isn't considered an existential threat to America and freedom, unlike the people from the Kremlin.
     
  3. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    I did not know that, but does that extend to the German dynasty that defeated France in 1871 and fought them a generation ago?

    Though if DeGaulle does end up ruling France ITTL like OTL and there is a monarchist resurgence across Europe Post War; French monarchism may get a shot in the arm during the Cold War.
     
  4. Bookmark1995 Bookmark95 Reborn!

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    Really?

    I would expect most French people seeing the monarchy is irrevocably connected to the brutal ancient regime.
     
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  5. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    Hard to say as I don't know French opinion at the time. And I'm not saying it would succeed, anymore than Mosley doing better ITTL makes him likely to become PM. Just that a wave of royal restorations would see the movements morale boosted and possibly increase their support significantly. I'd expect it would amount to little more than being noticed more than they have been, and maybe influence French politics more than usual for a generation or two before dying back down.
     
  6. Arlos Sad monarchist Donor

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    Monarchism never died in France, still got a steady amount of supporters, it hasn’t decreased or increased in a while, I think we are at 5% actively wanting it back and 20% who wouldn’t mind if the Bourbon became King once again right now? I’d have to look at the numbers. Not sure about the Bonaparte.
    The Constitution of the Vth republic was literally written with the thought of Having the King take the post of President should the people of France ever want it, with the prime minister having enough power to be the head of government. It was quite literally black on white in the constitution until the 90s, with mention of the King and all that. The mechanism are still there though.
    I don’t think he would mind either way about a restoration in Germany, but I don’t know his thought on the matter to be honest.
     
  7. Icedaemon Well-Known Member

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    Surely if monarchism is restored in Germany it should go to the competent and strongly anti-nazi Wittlesbach family?
     
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  8. AZNMAGICMAN Well-Known Member

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    Although Monarchist Groups like Action Francaise did exist, many Monarchist Nationalist Groups did collaborate with the Germans. I highly doubt Monarchy would see a return or restoration in France, especially when their were Groups like Action Francaise who collaborated with the Germans.

    Also in light of Monarchists, what are the status of French Fascists? I still feel there should be something addressing French Fascists, since its something that hasn't been addressed and I feel should be addressed.

    You had groups like:
    • Parti Populaire Francaise (A Fascist Party that was France's largest Fascist Party numbering 120,000 making it a popular Fascist Party, although it was really National Socialist, founded by Ex-Communists and Ex-Socialists as well had Pro-Germany views before and during occupation, they sought to make Germany and France equal countries).
    • Mouvement Franciste/Parti Franciste (A French Fascist Party imitating Italian Fascism, as well received Financial Support from Italy)
    • Parti Francais National-Collectiviste (A French Far-Right Nationalist Party that had supported Pan-Europeanism and espousing the odd ideology of Fascism and Socialism they called National Communism)
    • Reassemblment National Populaire (A French Far-Right Party founded by Ex-Socialists who were expelled or banned from the Socialist Party the SFIO (French Section of the Workers International), the RNP sponsor an ideology called Neo-Socialism which was a Far-Right Offshoot of the Socialist Ideology.)
    • Solidarite Francaise (A French Nazi Party imitating German Nazism. It was relatively short lived where after the death of its leader Francois Coty, the group was absorbed by the Parti Populaire Francaise)
    • Jeunesse Patriotes (A Nationalist Party with Fascist and Bonapartist Sympathies. It was disbanded in 1936 and absorbed into the PPF)
    • Croix-de-Feu (A Nationalist Party founded by French Veterans of the First World War. They followed Fascism, however were banned in 1934, where they had dissolved and reformed into the French Social Party where they became a Nationalist Party that rejected Fascism and had begun to follow a Moderate Conservatiam)
    Mouvement Franciste/Parti Franciste seem like the most likely to survive because:
    1. The Francistes were a Pro-Italian Fascist Party.
    2. The Francistes imitated Italian Fascist Ideology.
    3. The Francistes had received Financial backing from Fascist Italy.
    4. They did collaborate with Nazi Germany in OTL, however I can see that change in this TL with the Italo-German split. Like Oswald Mosley and his BUF in this TL supporting Mussolini/Fascist Italy and denouncing Nazism, I can see Marcel Bucard and his Francistes do the same in this TL, and hell the likeliness that the Francistes end up becoming Fascist Partisans waging Guerilla Warfare against the occupying Germans.
    5. Initially they weren't anti-Semitic, however they did slowly become Pro-Nazi and Anti-Semitic. However I can see them like Mosley's BUF in this TL where they stay Pro-Italy and avoid adopting Pro-Nazi and Anti-Semitic views.
    6. Other Fascists Parties either dissolved (CdF, SF) or were Pro-German Collaborators (PPF, PFNC, RNP)
    7. Also some people say Croix-de-Feu, but they disbanded and reformed into the French Social Party where they had begun to reject Fascism.
    So would the Francistes avoid the fate of becoming collaborators and survive like the British Union of Fascists? Or would their fate still stay the same?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  9. Blorg Credit to comics I post is SMBC Gone Fishin'

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    Do you hear the people sing?
     
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  10. thanix01 Well-Known Member

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    I only hear mass of unwash peasant!

    JK
     
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  11. Blorg Credit to comics I post is SMBC Gone Fishin'

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    *Angry farmer noises*
     
  12. Icedaemon Well-Known Member

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    Whereas the republic is linked to the horrific dystopia that was the Terror and the recent ineptitude, mismanagement and defeatism. Of the several bad options, trying for a constitutional monarchy is not the worst. The third alternative, a Bonapartist restoration, might be more palatable to more people than a Bourbon restoration though.
     
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  13. akoslows Well-Known Member

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    Well, weren’t the Bonaparte and Bourbon pretenders completely unknown in the French political landscape before and during WW2? Pretty sure they’d have to do something truly extraordinary in order for there to be enough support in the government and the public for a monarchy restoration to even be considered.
     
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  14. President Earl Warren Well-Known Member

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    well the Bonaparte was sort of a bad ass who joined the Resistence, that might elevate him up if he decides to actively campagin for the job and the Facists throw cash at him.
     
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  15. akoslows Well-Known Member

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    Wasn’t de Gaulle more in favor of a Bourbon restoration? Unless Napoleon VI manages to rack up a LOT of support, I don’t think de Gaulle will be quite keen on crowning him unless the odds are very much in Bonaparte’s favor.

    There’s also the issue involving Napoleon III.
     
  16. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    Say did Franco use the Liberation of France as an excuse to occupy Andorra? I doubt he would keep it if he had; but I was just wondering if the war years went that much differently for the Pyrenees country and if that would affect its development.
     
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  17. Adelkman Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what would be the point of an occupation? Andorra was very poor back then, with no resources to speak about. During the war, Andorra was a black market and spies' safe haven, activities which would be in high demands during the Cold War. In ITTL, I doubt the germans had held the tiny nation for long: it was pretty easy to surround and it was guarded only by a small german garrison. I'd say that OTL and ITTL Andorra are pretty similar: too small and too convenient as it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  18. Icedaemon Well-Known Member

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  19. akoslows Well-Known Member

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    Huh, fascinating. If Sorairo decides to have France restore their monarchy, this fact could possibly be used in Napoleon's favor.
     
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  20. Herr Frage Jesus Christ Is In Heaven

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    What a fascinating discussion, I have never really looked into 20th Century French monarchism.

    That Fascist party in France that was ProItalian, I wonder if they will be boosted by Italy and Spain taking part in the Liberaton of France?
     
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