The Footprint of Mussolini - TL
And biggest difference between post-war Germany and post-war Arab World is that winners are not going help AW but just left remnants trying survive on their own.
I foresee a ton of banditry, famine, and general chaos and hardship for the Arab World with the only stabile areas (relatively speaking) being the victors of the war.
So, looks like Krushcev is ousted for trying to deescalate things. The one that replaces him is probably a warmonger that is willing to go all the way to confront the West. Suslov? Breznev maybe?
It seems that Krushchev is going pay high price for keeping USSR out of that shitstorm. Brezhnev was already executed by Stalin so Suslov might be his successor.
Grabs popcorn.
Realizes its going to be a month.
Sadly puts popcorn away.
But seriously whats left of the Arab world after this war is going to see this as the point that it all went to hell.
Realizes its going to be a month.
Sadly puts popcorn away.
But seriously whats left of the Arab world after this war is going to see this as the point that it all went to hell.
Bookmark1995
Banned
TTL, Mussolini is still not a good guy and his desire for a new Roman Empire has been to the detriment of others. But, unlike Hitler, he can be more willing to throw bones to the people he is oppressing.
Hitler, by contrast, just sees brutal death and subjugation, not as a means to achieve a higher ideal, but the ideal itself. He wouldn't offer the Ukrainians whose land he wants even a path to equality, he just wants them all dead/enslaved. He sees the simple existence of Jews as a stain upon him, and thus is willing to utterly forgo reason just to complete his ideological goal.
Aflaq is basically the Arab totalitarian: like Stalin, he purges his enemies, and like Hitler, he indulges in a toxic hypernationalism that requires the destruction of others to survive.
I think the lesson of the Soviet Holocaust and the anti-Semitic fervor of Aflaq will be that antisemitism is INFINITE. Barely a decade after the Holocaust, institutional persecution of Jews still can happen. It will make those who even question the Zionist ideal hold their tongues.
I'm also guessing that Khrushchev feels that the bridge between the West has been so thoroughly burned, he might as well double down and try and maintain his only remaining allies the USSR has left (the Baathists).
Bookmark1995
Banned
To quote John Oliver:
"Somewhere in hell, Satan just sharpened his pitchfork and told his secretary, 'Do me a favor Janet. Let me know when (Aflaq) gets it. I just want to be ready.' "
@Bookmark1995 -
Yes, Krushchev realizes Communism is dead in Non-Soviet Europe and much of Asia. He's betting the house on getting the Middle East and Africa onside, as well as Latin America to try and make up the numbers.
@thanix01 -
They actually had air superiority in OTL 1948, so it's not that bad for Israel. While the Western pilots are more experienced, the MIGs put up a fight.
@Talus I of Dixie -
OTL, Ben Gurion was adamant about integrating the Irgun and Stern gang into the Haganah, which became the IDF. They actually fired on a ship with Begin on it because it was trying to get arms to Irgun troops, which undermined the authority of the state as they wanted one army for one state. Here, the Israeli right are vastly more powerful and have maintained their individual units. The Irgun's troops mostly went to the Lehi group instead. When Ben-Gurion came in ITTL after the collapse of Begin and Shamir's coalition, he was adamant on curbing the Lehi by wiping out their paramilitary wing through swallowing them into the army.
@generalurist -
Due to higher birthrates, higher immigration rates, the survival of an extra million Jews in the Nazi Holocaust and the expulsion of Soviet Jewry, the population currently stands at nearly four million, more than 90% being Jewish. OTL Israel didn't reach that number until the 1980s so they're doing quite good to say the least. In Libya, roughly half of the population is Italian. When combined with non-Italian settlers (like Greeks or Croats) and Jewish holdouts from the World War Two settlement, whites make up a narrow but rapidly increasing majority as the war begins. They are overwhelmingly concentrated around the Tripoli/Benghazi area.
Yes, Krushchev realizes Communism is dead in Non-Soviet Europe and much of Asia. He's betting the house on getting the Middle East and Africa onside, as well as Latin America to try and make up the numbers.
@thanix01 -
They actually had air superiority in OTL 1948, so it's not that bad for Israel. While the Western pilots are more experienced, the MIGs put up a fight.
@Talus I of Dixie -
OTL, Ben Gurion was adamant about integrating the Irgun and Stern gang into the Haganah, which became the IDF. They actually fired on a ship with Begin on it because it was trying to get arms to Irgun troops, which undermined the authority of the state as they wanted one army for one state. Here, the Israeli right are vastly more powerful and have maintained their individual units. The Irgun's troops mostly went to the Lehi group instead. When Ben-Gurion came in ITTL after the collapse of Begin and Shamir's coalition, he was adamant on curbing the Lehi by wiping out their paramilitary wing through swallowing them into the army.
@generalurist -
Due to higher birthrates, higher immigration rates, the survival of an extra million Jews in the Nazi Holocaust and the expulsion of Soviet Jewry, the population currently stands at nearly four million, more than 90% being Jewish. OTL Israel didn't reach that number until the 1980s so they're doing quite good to say the least. In Libya, roughly half of the population is Italian. When combined with non-Italian settlers (like Greeks or Croats) and Jewish holdouts from the World War Two settlement, whites make up a narrow but rapidly increasing majority as the war begins. They are overwhelmingly concentrated around the Tripoli/Benghazi area.
How is Italia doing population wise compared to Otl? Especially with less deaths as a result of WW2 nd continued Natalist policies?
Uh, I thought it would be a bit higher, I guess the Natalist policies don’t work that well.
Often times they don't. Ultimately, with a lot of war, people weren't living the high life so they kept it simple.
I am no expert on the matters, but I think it is a matter of mindset rather than simply economic incentive, so you would need to raise(aka indoctrinate) the new generation to integrate the need for large families, how to use the incentive, etc, those kind of thing would take 20-30 years before showing results I think?
Though I guess the constant state of war doesn’t help.
Aflaq has really managed to anger everyone here. Sweden and some may sit out. But his invasions of the Gulf States, Libya, and the UAR sponsored uprising in Algeria means the Big Three in Europe will be gunning for him. And if he thinks Israel will fall as easily as the other states he conquered; he really is delusional.
Those states he ad at least significant support inside. By contrast his Anti Semitic polices will make the peopel of Israel slightly less united against him than they would be against Hitler's zombie.
I could see the RZ faction getting vindication for their strategic depth policy here. Even with air superiority while Europeans prepare for their counterattack the UAR will be advancing through vicious urban and guerilla fighting in addition to conventional war.
Mussolini will be out for blood by the buckets. And I don't see his allies trying to restrain him too much.
Who's in charge of Italian East Africa? If they don't have to deal with an uprising Mussolini will likely want an attack on Yemen and Aden shortly.
Hmm, with Aden having fallen any chance in the Post war the restored monarch of Yemen can get the Greater Yemen his father wanted on the idea of creating a stronger Yemeni national identity against Pan Arabism?
I still think Khrushchev will pull up short of siding with Aflaq. He's no fool, with Aflaq clearly to radical too see how in over his head he is, and the West and Fascists Radicalized, he'd realize soviet entry would all but guarantee World War III. I am guessing Molotov will help overthrow helping explain his survival to give interviews later.
Those states he ad at least significant support inside. By contrast his Anti Semitic polices will make the peopel of Israel slightly less united against him than they would be against Hitler's zombie.
I could see the RZ faction getting vindication for their strategic depth policy here. Even with air superiority while Europeans prepare for their counterattack the UAR will be advancing through vicious urban and guerilla fighting in addition to conventional war.
Mussolini will be out for blood by the buckets. And I don't see his allies trying to restrain him too much.
Who's in charge of Italian East Africa? If they don't have to deal with an uprising Mussolini will likely want an attack on Yemen and Aden shortly.
Hmm, with Aden having fallen any chance in the Post war the restored monarch of Yemen can get the Greater Yemen his father wanted on the idea of creating a stronger Yemeni national identity against Pan Arabism?
I still think Khrushchev will pull up short of siding with Aflaq. He's no fool, with Aflaq clearly to radical too see how in over his head he is, and the West and Fascists Radicalized, he'd realize soviet entry would all but guarantee World War III. I am guessing Molotov will help overthrow helping explain his survival to give interviews later.
Bookmark1995
Banned
So are Libyans (and by extension Somalians and Eritreans) on track to being assimilated into Italian society? Or are they still subjected to second class citizenship.