The flower of Innovation Japan modernizes 3 centuries early

Sumeragi

Banned
I'm not sure I buy your argument Sumeragi. Against Japanese armor, why are composite bows different than longbows?
In the mountainous battlefield of Korea which has numerous fortresses, a longbow is a liability in that it is difficult to carry around in the geography while being able to make quick nips at the enemy. In addition, Korean composite bows have been known to easily pierce the armor of the Japanese. Basically, as long as close combat was avoided, the Joseon troops did fairly well in battle OTL-wise.

In Europe, longbows gave way to firearms and pikemen. Why not in Asia too? As, ultimately, they did.
1. The longbow is too cumbersome to carry around when compared to the firearms. This is not the case with composite bows.

2. In terms of geography, Korea is more mountainous than most of the main European battlfields. In the relatively flat European geography, the use of pikemen were effective in stopping cavalry, which is the main reason they were deployed in the first place. Cavalry is a secondary force in Korea, and thus the need for pikemen decreases relatively.

3. The firearms of this era are not accurate or fast-shooting enough to have the advantage in every single battlefield. As noted above, the geography favored the bow and arrows in relatively long-range combat.



Basically, Korean geography does not favor firearms of the era in question as much as in Europe. To try and say the success in Europe would be replicated easily in Korea is basically ignoring the reality on the ground.
 
In the mountainous battlefield of Korea which has numerous fortresses, a longbow is a liability in that it is difficult to carry around in the geography while being able to make quick nips at the enemy. In addition, Korean composite bows have been known to easily pierce the armor of the Japanese. Basically, as long as close combat was avoided, the Joseon troops did fairly well in battle OTL-wise.


1. The longbow is too cumbersome to carry around when compared to the firearms. This is not the case with composite bows.

2. In terms of geography, Korea is more mountainous than most of the main European battlfields. In the relatively flat European geography, the use of pikemen were effective in stopping cavalry, which is the main reason they were deployed in the first place. Cavalry is a secondary force in Korea, and thus the need for pikemen decreases relatively.

3. The firearms of this era are not accurate or fast-shooting enough to have the advantage in every single battlefield. As noted above, the geography favored the bow and arrows in relatively long-range combat.



Basically, Korean geography does not favor firearms of the era in question as much as in Europe. To try and say the success in Europe would be replicated easily in Korea is basically ignoring the reality on the ground.
Would it be possible if Japan forms an allaince with the manchus and they soon attack Korea from the north and South. Im sure Korea would find it very difficult to stop this combined assault..
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Would it be possible if Japan forms an allaince with the manchus and they soon attack Korea from the north and South. Im sure Korea would find it very difficult to stop this combined assault..

No. The Jianzhou Jurchens were at first in a civil war, which kept them out of the picture. Nurhaci (founder of the Manchus) had always considered the Koreans as a sibling people, and as such he would never have considered an alliance with Japan to attack the Korean peninsula unless Joseon did something first. You need to basically have it so that the Manchus were never established for such an alliance to have formed, and even then I doubt they would have done much before the Ming intervened.


Really, I don't see any form of this scenario happening short of the Ming being far more corrupt and self-destructive than in OTL so as to not help Joseon out in any form, Yi Sun-sin having died in battle against the Jurchens before 1590 (when he assumed the position of Commander of the Left Jeolla Naval District), Japan building hundreds of galleons, the people of Joseon not being defiant of foreigners, AND the king of Joseon not immediately escaping to the north upon news that the Japanese troops were marching somewhere halfway up the distance from Busan. Basically, too many butterflies are needed.


At this point, it's like the scenario of Japan successfully attacking the Soviet Union in late 1941 with the Germans: Possible, but only when we have a hell lot more of PODs than most people would even consider.



Oh, and the biggest problem: Nobunaga was never one to look outside Japan for land.
 
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