...Now there's an interesting thought. Imagine, the People's Republic of Britain with its capital in Manchester or somewhere else in Northern England. Although if that actually happens, I can't see a united Ireland not happening.
The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
And he'd hardly be marrying Wallis Simpson ITTL. Of course, he might take a more... ancient regnal name.
The Bienno Rosso is happening. However, discontent is somewhat muted ITTL. After all, when the ceasefire came through, Austria was occupying Italian territory, so most Italians are relieved that they didn't lose any territory. I'll do a post on Italy later, but while everyone involved with what was in hindsight a terrible decision to join the Entente is going to be losing power, Italy will not go extremist.
...Well, fuck. I was hoping to save this for a plot twist in a couple of years, but y'all fucking called it. Britain will end up as TTL's Germany. In addition to a united socialist Ireland, Scotland and Wales will be occupied by the ASU while England will be occupied by Germany, Italy, and maybe one of the other *Allies. The inevitable result is Wales and Scotland becoming independent socialist states, leaving the Kingdom of England as a German client state.
On an entirely unrelated note, I am curious to know what your plans are for India? Because I can imagine that a Falangist Britain will be far more oppressive towards India than Britain was IOTL, which might radicalise the Indian Independence Movement towards violence.
For that matter, what is going to happen to Asia in general? I can imagine that China will likely find itself closely allied to Germany (and by extension the ASU) against a Falangist Russia, Britain and Japan. They may even sent weapons and funding over the Himalayas towards pro-independence Indian paramilitary groups.
I can imagine that with India, similar to what happened to Greece IOTL, we will see rival resistance groups forming. For example, we might end up with one group aligned to the INC that is heavily socialist-leaning and receives funding mainly from the ASU, and other groups aligned to sectarian organisations such as the Hindu Mahasabha, Muslim League and the Princely States that are more anti-socialist and are funded by Germany and China in an attempt to check American influence in the region.
We may even (heaven forbid) see a civil war between these rival groups that could serve as an analogue for OTL's Chinese Civil War, in that it effectively kick-starts TTL's Cold War between the ASU and its socialist allies on the one hand and the anti-socialist German and Chinese Empire's on the other. The Princely states would likely divide among sectarian lines, with Muslim states such as Hyderabad going to the Muslim League (you could even do what @Aj chahal did in his timeline and have Nizam Mukarram Jah of Hyderabad attempt to resurrect the Mughal Empire with support from the Muslim League) and Hindu states such as Gwalior backing the Hindu Mahasabha (who may likewise attempt to resurrect the Maratha Empire).
Which side would win such a civil war is hard to say (though I personally would lean towards the INC, both due to my own biases and because I think that the sectarian tension between the Muslim League and the Hindu Mahasabha would likely lead to them spending at least as much time fighting one another as they do fighting the INC).
An anti-INC victory would likely lead to a Partition that is even more violent than OTL, followed by violently theocratic and xenophobic rule on both sides. What is certain, though, is that following both what I assume would be a vicious guerrilla war against Britain followed by an equally vicious civil war, India would likely emerge devastated and traumatised, taking many years to fully recover.
For that matter, what is going to happen to Asia in general? I can imagine that China will likely find itself closely allied to Germany (and by extension the ASU) against a Falangist Russia, Britain and Japan. They may even sent weapons and funding over the Himalayas towards pro-independence Indian paramilitary groups.
I can imagine that with India, similar to what happened to Greece IOTL, we will see rival resistance groups forming. For example, we might end up with one group aligned to the INC that is heavily socialist-leaning and receives funding mainly from the ASU, and other groups aligned to sectarian organisations such as the Hindu Mahasabha, Muslim League and the Princely States that are more anti-socialist and are funded by Germany and China in an attempt to check American influence in the region.
We may even (heaven forbid) see a civil war between these rival groups that could serve as an analogue for OTL's Chinese Civil War, in that it effectively kick-starts TTL's Cold War between the ASU and its socialist allies on the one hand and the anti-socialist German and Chinese Empire's on the other. The Princely states would likely divide among sectarian lines, with Muslim states such as Hyderabad going to the Muslim League (you could even do what @Aj chahal did in his timeline and have Nizam Mukarram Jah of Hyderabad attempt to resurrect the Mughal Empire with support from the Muslim League) and Hindu states such as Gwalior backing the Hindu Mahasabha (who may likewise attempt to resurrect the Maratha Empire).
Which side would win such a civil war is hard to say (though I personally would lean towards the INC, both due to my own biases and because I think that the sectarian tension between the Muslim League and the Hindu Mahasabha would likely lead to them spending at least as much time fighting one another as they do fighting the INC).
An anti-INC victory would likely lead to a Partition that is even more violent than OTL, followed by violently theocratic and xenophobic rule on both sides. What is certain, though, is that following both what I assume would be a vicious guerrilla war against Britain followed by an equally vicious civil war, India would likely emerge devastated and traumatised, taking many years to fully recover.
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The UK's regnal numbering scheme operates on the largest. So if OTL Edward VIII wants to keep his name of David he'd become David III since there were two previous Scottish Kings named David. Same with Alexander IV, Robert IV, James VIII, Kenneth IV, Donald IV, Duncan IV, Malcolm V and Constantine IV.
However, you could also go with Edmund III, Edgar II, Harold III, or Phillip II (Philip I was Phillip II "The Prudent" of Spain, Mary I's husband and was King but without any power)
you know, you don't need to tell us even if we guess- you can just be like "
" and let us stew.(put that plot twist back where it was hidden or so help me)
I'm going to leave that aside for now. My plans for Britain are pretty concrete. My plans for India are vague sketches.
That said, I am leaning towards a much more divided India.
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You could take the road less traveled and have the ASU sponsor an Irish effort to federate with Scotland, Wales, Brittany, Cornwall (and Man) into a Celtic Socialist Republic, while having England balkanized between Germany and Italy into Northumbria and a smaller Mercia 🤔 It would basically flip your original idea (rump England and breakaway Celtic regions) on its head and as a plus it would keep us on our toes and be super interesting to watch! It could be a fun little nod to the Morgenthau Plan.
I strongly doubt that Germany would have England be balkanized. It'd dangerously weaken their puppet state in the British Islands compared to the Communist state of the region. England by itself is already weakened enough compared to Germany to be seen as no longer being a threat to Germany's hegemony in the Capitalist sphere and Europe whilst if England was balkanized it would be unable to stand up as a power strong enough to fight against the Communist backed state in the British Isles region. And I have major doubts that Italy would have the influence necessary for England to be balkanized between it and Germany.
I do think that the ASU backing a federalized Scotland, Wales and Ireland would make sense. As each of them by themself wouldn't match England but together they probably would be able to match England in case a theoretical WWIII happened and it didn't immediately go thermonuclear. Though no way would Germany accept Britainny becoming a foothold for the Communists in Western Europe and there is no way that the ASU will be able to occupy any part of France as they'd have no launching pad into France until after Britain fell and that's probably one of the last Falangist states to fall ITTL WWII.
I do think that the ASU backing a federalized Scotland, Wales and Ireland would make sense. As each of them by themself wouldn't match England but together they probably would be able to match England in case a theoretical WWIII happened and it didn't immediately go thermonuclear. Though no way would Germany accept Britainny becoming a foothold for the Communists in Western Europe and there is no way that the ASU will be able to occupy any part of France as they'd have no launching pad into France until after Britain fell and that's probably one of the last Falangist states to fall ITTL WWII.
Fair enough, CSU v. KoE is a happy medium 🤔 Socialist insurgencies/secession movements in Northwest England and Brittany would make good points of tension between the ASU and Germany in the immediate postwar world before the decolonization wave and proxy wars start up.
Fair enough 😂 I've immediately gotten high on my own supply and I'm craving a Celtic socialist federation though
There will be an international organization uniting the Celtic states (possibly including any Breton socialist parties) but no actual union.
Considering the recent talk of the Celtic states, I'm wondering if there's going to be a sort of pan-Celtic ideology emerging after the second World War. Depending on how bad Falangist Britain and France treats the Celtic speaking populations (which would be pretty ironic if the Falangists in Britain drawing on the legends of king Arthur, a guy famous for fighting the anglo-saxons). I could see this ideology draw upon Celtic culture as a sort of rejection of England's culture that would be, partly blamed for the Falangists taking over. This could also involve reinterpreting King Arthur into more of a socialist Celtic hero instead of whatever the Falangists would turn him into to serve their authoritarianism.
Given that we'll be getting independent states, I expect that they'll be focusing on their individual histories and cultures. Any move towards pan-Celticism might be a response to postwar England not only rejecting the Arthurian obsessions of the Falangists but emphasizing English culture to build a new national identity.
Then there's the legacy of Britain. Many in England will be advocates for reunification, but few in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland will be in favor. Even in the hypothetical scenario of England falling to socialism, a reunited Great Britain will be seen as a vehicle for English dominance. On top of that, the Germans will be divided between suppressing British nationalism to prevent a return of Falangism and promoting it as a bulwark against socialism.
Especially as I imagine that, as Germany is the main country that is reconstructing England, that the Germans would push for an emphasis on the Germanic and Anglo-Saxon heritage of England to build Anglo-German ties.
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It's the sort of issue I expect successive German governments to flip-flop on. We will probably see the rehabilitation of some British (and French) officers similar to what happened with some of the Nazis. This will also lead to the "royaboo" phenomenon, similar to OTL's wehraboos.
I do wonder how the Falangist Governments will draw the Imperial Powers into the war.
Like what I imagine is that they're going to run similar to Nazi Germany pre-War, with the main enemy(other than whatever scapegoat populations they've demonized) being the Socialist Powers. But I don’t really see alot of ‘room’ for something similar to Lebensraum…unless Russia is part of the Falangist Alliance.
Like what I imagine is that they're going to run similar to Nazi Germany pre-War, with the main enemy(other than whatever scapegoat populations they've demonized) being the Socialist Powers. But I don’t really see alot of ‘room’ for something similar to Lebensraum…unless Russia is part of the Falangist Alliance.