The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus

guillotine
The guillotine has never been one of the methods used in the US, and afaik, it has only ever been used once in North America, by the French in the St Pierre et Miquelon Islands in the 19th century.
Unless the socialists of this TL were resistant to it, it was over the period of the 1890s-1910s that the electric chair became the preferred method, but firing squad and standard&long drop hanging remained common for a long time
 
The guillotine has never been one of the methods used in the US, and afaik, it has only ever been used once in North America, by the French in the St Pierre et Miquelon Islands in the 19th century.
Unless the socialists of this TL were resistant to it, it was over the period of the 1890s-1910s that the electric chair became the preferred method, but firing squad and standard&long drop hanging remained common for a long time
Yeah, I kinda just through that one out there as a random example of a more humane method of execution. I vaguely remember reading that in one US state (Georgia, I think?), there was a petition to replace the state's electric chair with a guillotine in the 90s ITTL, but it got nowhere.

If the ASU ITTL retains the death penalty, then I personally hope that the electric chair is phased out. Quite aside from having been invented by the (now blacklisted) Thomas Edison, it is IMO a far less humane method of execution than the ones it replaced....

(As an aside though, I'm curious to know if and when death penalty abolition gains traction ITTL)
 
Yeah, I kinda just through that one out there as a random example of a more humane method of execution. I vaguely remember reading that in one US state (Georgia, I think?), there was a petition to replace the state's electric chair with a guillotine in the 90s ITTL, but it got nowhere.

If the ASU ITTL retains the death penalty, then I personally hope that the electric chair is phased out. Quite aside from having been invented by the (now blacklisted) Thomas Edison, it is IMO a far less humane method of execution than the ones it replaced....

(As an aside though, I'm curious to know if and when death penalty abolition gains traction ITTL)
Yeah as someone who studies things about engineering and electricity I was interested on the logistics of the electric chair and my god, reading about the first execution (William Kemmler) using the thing I don’t know why they didn’t just abandon it, it was horrific from the start.

Honestly there is no good answer of a “humane” method of execution but if we are talking about a painless one a bullet to the back of the head seems like the most painless way to execute someone,
hanging: it can go wrong,
electric chair: Jesus Christ is it horrific
guillotine: I guess this one as well kind of
firing squad: it doesn't guarantee an instant death
injection: can fail
gas chamber: horrifying and also depends a lot on the gas
shot at the back of the head: it is inhumane but it’s almost a guarantee of instant death
 
Yeah i don't think the ASU is going to be very nice to the flangists it captures
Especially depending on what horrid shit they pull

For example
Bioweapons
Gas bombs
Stuff like that
 
Yeah i don't think the ASU is going to be very nice to the flangists it captures
Especially depending on what horrid shit they pull

For example
Bioweapons
Gas bombs
Stuff like that
This reminds me: Would there be joint war crime tribunals similar to Nuremberg or Tokyo ITTL or will it be a situation where Germany and the ASU separately prosecute war criminals they capture (the fate of most lesser offenders IOTL)?
 
This reminds me: Would there be joint war crime tribunals similar to Nuremberg or Tokyo ITTL or will it be a situation where Germany and the ASU separately prosecute war criminals they capture (the fate of most lesser offenders IOTL)?
Probably too far in the future to really speculate on that, but I don't see a particular reason for there not to be a joint tribunal if Germany and its collection of satellite states are allied with the ASU
 
Yeah i don't think the ASU is going to be very nice to the flangists it captures
Especially depending on what horrid shit they pull

For example
Bioweapons
Gas bombs
Stuff like that
Plus it doesn't sound like the Falangist states will be treating minority or those considered to be enemy populations too well (Meshakad stated that Russia's campaign against the jews would be like if the Holocaust was run by Dirlewanger rather than Heydrich and has also confirmed that Sternberg will take the place of Drilewanger in this TL as an example) so god only knows what type of horrors are going to be inflicted upon those people in non Russian Falangist territory.
 
Once again poking around Wikipedia and yt for ideas wrt to the airplane development scene (I admit to only having a passing interest rather than ny deep knowledge), but some people to keep an eye on:

Donald Douglas is hard to place because his father worked for one of the largest banks in the US (but only as an assistant cashier) and he definitely seems to have been pretty patriotic given how regularly he did work for the US government pre-revolution. If he doesn't leave, i expect he'd start his own smaller business/coop since he seems to have wanted to be in control of his work, with any military plane designs being sold on to the government for them to produce at scale.

His future business partner James Smith McDonnell probably joins with either the Buffalo or Dayton aircraft coop.

A big name in aviation that won't be coming to the ASU is Igor Sikorsky bc from the sound of things he was pretty nationalistic and anti communist, so he's probably staying in Russia (he was from Kiev but definitely I'd himself and his family as Russian not Ukrainian).

However, Artem Mikoyan and his politically inclined brother (Anastas Mikoyan, fairly important guy actually OTL) were thoroughly revolutionary in their politics who might make their way to the ASU rather than stick to the Bolsheviks in Belarus or resigning themselves to be under reactionary Russia in Azerbaijan.

Mikhail Gurevich was Jewish and had been expelled from Kharkiv university for revolutionary activities. He spent some time in a French university before getting stuck in Russia when the great War broke out, and only was able to finish his education at kharkiv after the soviets won the Civil war. ITTL he could conceivably make his career in an independent Ukraine or in Germany, but he just as easily could end up moving to the ASU where he'd face far less discrimination over either his jewishness or his politics.
(Mikoyan and Gurevich in otl were the partnership behind the famous MiG series of aircraft from 1940 to Gurevich's retirement in 1964).
 
I'm planning on Sikorsky staying in Ukraine, although he may go to Germany for a time. Mikoyan on the other hand sounds like he'd be a natural fit in the ASU. Possibly Gurevich as well. But as funny as American MiGs would be, it's a bit too on the nose, especially when I've already set the precedent that American aircraft cooperatives have geographic names.
 
I'm planning on Sikorsky staying in Ukraine, although he may go to Germany for a time. Mikoyan on the other hand sounds like he'd be a natural fit in the ASU. Possibly Gurevich as well. But as funny as American MiGs would be, it's a bit too on the nose, especially when I've already set the precedent that American aircraft cooperatives have geographic names.
I have a idea for you.

You can estabilish a MiG factory, directed by Mikoyan and Gurevich...

...buuuuuut MiG is the abbreviation of Milwaukee-Glendale, aaaaaaand the factory is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

(Glendale is a town north Milwaukee)
 
I have a idea for you.

You can estabilish a MiG factory, directed by Mikoyan and Gurevich...

...buuuuuut MiG is the abbreviation of Milwaukee-Glendale, aaaaaaand the factory is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

(Glendale is a town north Milwaukee)

conveniently, Milwaukee is also the home turf of Billy Mitchell, though more in the Greenfield area in the southwest.
edit: oh, apparently the Mitchell family had a 400 acre estate in West Allis (also in the southwest from the city center). iotl it was turned into an orphanage and the main buildings today are a senior living facility
edit 2: this is Milwaukee in 1925, and the Mitchell estate is the plot right where the compass is, Glendale starts right at the top edge of the map where H-I-J are
maps_14285_medium.jpg
 

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The first thread is closed so I just want to say this, I loved it. :D

Hope to see what this new thread brings!

Also, will we get word about what's going on in the Middle East? At the risk of poking the hornet's nest with Chat stuff, I imagine that events in Palestine and the Caucasus will be of big focus.
 
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The first thread is closed so I just want to say this, I loved it. :D

Hope to see what this new thread brings!

Also, will we get word about what's going on in the Middle East? At the risk of poking the hornet's nest with Chat stuff, I imagine that events in Palestine and the Caucasus will be of big focus.
We will. Here's what I can tell you for now:

Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan declared independence. However, Russia was able to recapture Armenia and Azerbaijan. Georgia survived thanks to German aid and is a German client state.

The British supply shortage weakened their push into Ottoman territory and resulted in a few battles going the other way. The Ottomans have lost Arabia, Egypt, southern Palestine, and southern Iraq. Baghdad, Iraq, and Jaffa are in British/Arab hands, but Haifa, Damascus, and Mosul are Ottoman. Palestine and Iraq are currently under British control (although there is no League of Nations to give them a formal mandate).

The picture in Arabia remains unclear. However, under pressure from his sons, Hussein ibn Ali, the Sharif of Mecca and de facto King of the Hejaz, has signed the Treaty of Basel. IOTL, he refused to sign the Treaty of Versailles due to the Balfour Declaration and the establishment of the French Mandate in Syria and Lebanon. ITTL, he has accepted that the British were simply unable to deliver him Syria and Lebanon. Iraq is more of a sticking point, and rumor has it that the British, not wanting their client to get too powerful, are considering giving Iraq to the Sheiks of Kuwait instead.

Regardless, with the Sharif's signature on the Treaty of Basel, Britain continues to support the Hashemites and are inclined to cut off support for the Saudis (money is a bit tight these days). The Second Saudi-Hashemite War, if it happens at all, will probably be a Hashemite victory. Even that is uncertain, as the Ottoman Caliphate has not been abolished, so there is no pretext for Hussein to proclaim himself Caliph.

While the long-term picture of the Middle East remains unclear, the Arabs see the Treaty of Basel not as a definitive ending but as a ceasefire. This idea (promoted by Prince Faisal) was what persuaded Hussein to ratify the Treaty of Basel. At some point, the Arabs will make another push for Syria.

Ironically, the Arabs have a potential ally against the Ottomans in the form of the Yishuv, which has been effectively cut in two as the Ottomans retain Haifa and the Galilee. Nothing is certain, but Chaim Weizmann has made it clear to Hussein that if he were to support a Jewish state in Palestine, the Jews would happily assist the Arabs in pushing the Ottomans out of Syria and Lebanon. Prince Abdullah has been particularly charmed by the idea, even proposing to his father that the Jews might accept some sort of autonomous status within a larger Arab state. Conversely, it is not out of the question that the Saudis might find common cause with the Ottomans.
 
We will. Here's what I can tell you for now:

Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan declared independence. However, Russia was able to recapture Armenia and Azerbaijan. Georgia survived thanks to German aid and is a German client state.

The British supply shortage weakened their push into Ottoman territory and resulted in a few battles going the other way. The Ottomans have lost Arabia, Egypt, southern Palestine, and southern Iraq. Baghdad, Iraq, and Jaffa are in British/Arab hands, but Haifa, Damascus, and Mosul are Ottoman. Palestine and Iraq are currently under British control (although there is no League of Nations to give them a formal mandate).

The picture in Arabia remains unclear. However, under pressure from his sons, Hussein ibn Ali, the Sharif of Mecca and de facto King of the Hejaz, has signed the Treaty of Basel. IOTL, he refused to sign the Treaty of Versailles due to the Balfour Declaration and the establishment of the French Mandate in Syria and Lebanon. ITTL, he has accepted that the British were simply unable to deliver him Syria and Lebanon. Iraq is more of a sticking point, and rumor has it that the British, not wanting their client to get too powerful, are considering giving Iraq to the Sheiks of Kuwait instead.

Regardless, with the Sharif's signature on the Treaty of Basel, Britain continues to support the Hashemites and are inclined to cut off support for the Saudis (money is a bit tight these days). The Second Saudi-Hashemite War, if it happens at all, will probably be a Hashemite victory. Even that is uncertain, as the Ottoman Caliphate has not been abolished, so there is no pretext for Hussein to proclaim himself Caliph.

While the long-term picture of the Middle East remains unclear, the Arabs see the Treaty of Basel not as a definitive ending but as a ceasefire. This idea (promoted by Prince Faisal) was what persuaded Hussein to ratify the Treaty of Basel. At some point, the Arabs will make another push for Syria.

Ironically, the Arabs have a potential ally against the Ottomans in the form of the Yishuv, which has been effectively cut in two as the Ottomans retain Haifa and the Galilee. Nothing is certain, but Chaim Weizmann has made it clear to Hussein that if he were to support a Jewish state in Palestine, the Jews would happily assist the Arabs in pushing the Ottomans out of Syria and Lebanon. Prince Abdullah has been particularly charmed by the idea, even proposing to his father that the Jews might accept some sort of autonomous status within a larger Arab state. Conversely, it is not out of the question that the Saudis might find common cause with the Ottomans.
Knowing how the project for the Jewish state went in Palestine, I’m very worried that this won’t go well.

Also aren’t the Hashemites mad at Britain for not getting southern Iraq? I know there was a fallout between the two over broken promises in OTL. Does the same happen here?
 
Knowing how the project for the Jewish state went in Palestine, I’m very worried that this won’t go well.
Well for one thing the third ailyah won't draw in the massive numbers it did in OTL according to Meshakad thanks to a range of factors that drove it either being downgraded or nonexistent, the most prominent being the ASU having an open door policy in regards to Jewish immigration (OTL the US enacted the emergency quota act which severely limited Jewish immigration). This could play a role into why the Yishuv would want to ally with the Hashimites. Although I expect that any potential alliance could have backlash from a few zionist leaders.
 
Knowing how the project for the Jewish state went in Palestine, I’m very worried that this won’t go well.

Also aren’t the Hashemites mad at Britain for not getting southern Iraq? I know there was a fallout between the two over broken promises in OTL. Does the same happen here?
So far, the British haven't made a concrete decision, so there's still a chance. Same for Syria and northern Iraq, which could be taken in another war against the Ottomans. If (as is likely) the Brits don't give the Hashemites Iraq, then that will put serious strain on relations between London and Mecca.
 
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