The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus

I have a feeling red America will win the Cold War due to how well liberal and socalist they are and they are not the soviets union there will be now dictator
 
I have a feeling red America will win the Cold War due to how well liberal and socalist they are and they are not the soviets union there will be now dictator
Depends, Red America will be power but if China, Russia, India and Japan are all capitalist than they'll just drown America in Industrial might.
 
Depends, Red America will be power but if China, Russia, India and Japan are all capitalist than they'll just drown America in Industrial might.
This is why, for Red America and socialism to survive, they can't limit themselves.

In order for socialism to survive, socialism must be spread EVERYWHERE!

I'm sure Trotsky will be quite vocal on it.
 
In order for socialism to survive, socialism must be spread EVERYWHERE!
The problem with that is America's isolation is a blessing and a curse, a blessing by protecting it from invaders, a curse by making it deeply dependent on local allies to project power. And in nearly all of its planned routes for expansion of its sphere of interest it would be challenging the other great powers in their seats of strength and often working with less than entirely desirable allies.
 
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I have a feeling red America will win the Cold War due to how well liberal and socalist they are and they are not the soviets union there will be now dictator
Depends, Red America will be power but if China, Russia, India and Japan are all capitalist than they'll just drown America in Industrial might.
This is why, for Red America and socialism to survive, they can't limit themselves.

In order for socialism to survive, socialism must be spread EVERYWHERE!

I'm sure Trotsky will be quite vocal on it.
The problem with that is America's isolation was after all a blessing and a curse, a blessing by protecting it from invaders, a curse by making it deeply dependent on local allies to project power. And in nearly all of its planned routes for expansion of its sphere of interest it would be challenging the other great powers in their seats of strength and often working with less than entirely desirable allies.
True but the ASU will have Anarchist Brazil on it's side, and if Brazil plays it's cards right it could become a great industrial power to assist America. And if the ASU fights Japan in WWII (which will happen either way), then Japan after losing the war, will become sociallist and help America contain China, though Japan and whatever other asian nation cannot contain China by themselves they will need India and I don't see India and China having a great relationship since these two have bee at each others throats to this day. And I mean a capitalist India did have good relations with the Soviet Union OTL I don't see why the ASU can't have good relations with India either, especially if the ASU sides with India agains't it's enemies like Pakistan or China, like the Soviets did OTL. Plus a Red India wouldn't be bad either way.
 
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Depends, Red America will be power but if China, Russia, India and Japan are all capitalist than they'll just drown America in Industrial might.
Reminder that the Cold War was not won through industrial power, but a combination of industrial power, economic diversity, and collapse of the Soviet system due to questionable decisions like wasting tons of money on an arms race while neglecting things like food sovereignty and the population's moral.
 
and if Brazil plays it's cards right it could become a great industrial power to assist America
All of South America has less coal than Pennsylvania
then Japan after it loses will become sociallist
Will Japan loose or will they sue for peace and switch sides.
I don't see India and China having great relationships since these two have bee at each others throats to this day.
It's wholly possible for China and India to have good relations. In OTL their relationship only went bad cause of the Sino-Indian War. Before that, their relationship was rather cordial.
enemies like Pakistan
What makes you think that Pakistan will even exist TTL?
 
All of South America has less coal than Pennsylvania

Will Japan loose or will they sue for peace and switch sides.

It's wholly possible for China and India to have good relations. In OTL their relationship only went bad cause of the Sino-Indian War. Before that, their relationship was rather cordial.

What makes you think that Pakistan will even exist TTL?
Well the Sino-Indian War started because of the border dispute caused by the The McMahon Line which was created by an agreement between British India and Tibet which China never ratified and denounces because China tought that Tibet wasn't an idependent nation at the time, and if the China of this story doesn't agree either then problems between the two nations will happen.
True Pakistan may not exist TTL but that is only if the Indians and the Muslims come to an understanding between each other then Pakistan won't exist, but if that doesn't happen then the two peoples will go their seperate ways much like OTL (ie Pakistan seperating from India and the rivalry and hatred between one another will happen TTL)
 
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Depends, Red America will be power but if China, Russia, India and Japan are all capitalist than they'll just drown America in Industrial might.
The problem with that is America's isolation is a blessing and a curse, a blessing by protecting it from invaders, a curse by making it deeply dependent on local allies to project power. And in nearly all of its planned routes for expansion of its sphere of interest it would be challenging the other great powers in their seats of strength and often working with less than entirely desirable allies.

Split the democracies from the autocratic/totalitarian sorts, and low-key subvert the former. Where is the problem?
 
All of South America has less coal than Pennsylvania
I mean Brazil produces 6 million tons of coal a year OTL, it's not US levels but it is still pretty big. Plus Brazil has the second largest proven oil reserves in South America (the first being Venezuela) so whenever those get discover in this TL I think Anarcho Brazil might be pretty rich.
True but the ASU will have Anarchist Brazil on it's side, and if Brazil plays it's cards right it could become a great industrial power to assist America. And if the ASU fights Japan in WWII (which will happen either way), then Japan after losing the war, will become sociallist and help America contain China, though Japan and whatever other asian nation cannot contain China by themselves they will need India and I don't see India and China having a great relationship since these two have bee at each others throats to this day. And I mean a capitalist India did have good relations with the Soviet Union OTL I don't see why the ASU can't have good relations with India either, especially if the ASU sides with India agains't it's enemies like Pakistan or China, like the Soviets did OTL. Plus a Red India wouldn't be bad either way.
I think you can extend that to the entirety of Latin American, particularly the more urbanized countries like Argentina and Venezuela. Also I think @Meshakad said that India is going to be split into numerous successor states after WW2. Another candidate I could think of are the countries in Southeast Asia particularly the ones in Indochina. For starters they already had various socialist rebellions (Ho Chi Minh and the Viet MInh for example) going and I think the ASU might be willing to support them even after the end of WW2. Plus those countries (particularly Vietnam) have not had the best of relationships with Vietnam. Although another South Asian country I could picture going red is probably Burma.
 
I mean Brazil produces 6 million tons of coal a year OTL, it's not US levels but it is still pretty big
Plus OTL Brazil is not nearly as industrialized as the US(meaning - less fossile fuel extraction) and is actively pursuing other energy sources(mainly hydro but there are nuclear powerplants and wind ones too) so of course we wouldnt be reaching US levels of coal production IOTL regardless of our geographic capabilities and needless to say TTL Brazil will be very different from our world's counterpart regarding its economy and industry
But in any case I find the idea that a country's potential, let alone that of a continent, can be reduced to its amount of carbon rocks to be shortsighted at best, specially when we - again - are actively moving away from that kind of powersource that is highly damaging to our environment
 
Plus OTL Brazil is not nearly as industrialized as the US(meaning - less fossile fuel extraction) and is actively pursuing other energy sources(mainly hydro but there are nuclear powerplants and wind ones too) so of course we wouldnt be reaching US levels of coal production IOTL regardless of our geographic capabilities and needless to say TTL Brazil will be very different from our world's counterpart regarding its economy and industry
But in any case I find the idea that a country's potential, let alone that of a continent, can be reduced to its amount of carbon rocks to be shortsighted at best, specially when we - again - are actively moving away from that kind of powersource that is highly damaging to our environment
I mean yeah but I wouldn't be surprised if support from the ASU and this TL's WW2 causes a bit of a rapid industrialization in Brazil. I mean I'm not sure what the ASU's policy towards anarchist states is going to be but I assume a fair amount of realpolitik is going to play into the ASU supporting anarchist states. Plus Brazil sent an expeditionary force to fight the Axis who were pretty effective from what I've read (I mean hell they had a whole Sabaton song dedicated to three of them that died fighting a company sized force of Germans). Although I think in general WW2 is probably where Latin America is going to shine the most in this TL. With Latin America presumably diversifying its economy beyond being extraction based.
 
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Plus Brazil sent an expeditionary force to fight the Axis who were pretty effective from what I've read (I mean hell they had a whole Sabaton song dedicated to three of them that died fighting a company sized force of Germans
Yup! Some of my family was sent as part of it
It was a key part in the liberation of Italy and our soldiers were known for exceeding expectations(like in the case referenced by the song) despite the fact they were completely underequipped(mostly relying on what other allied teams were willing to share because our government didnt bother with the expense)
 
Yup! Some of my family was sent as part of it
It was a key part in the liberation of Italy and our soldiers were known for exceeding expectations(like in the case referenced by the song) despite the fact they were completely underequipped(mostly relying on what other allied teams were willing to share because our government didnt bother with the expense)
TBH I don't think the expeditionary army in this TL's brazil is going to face that issue. Both because the ASU is giving them stuff and because I think anarchist Brazil might be bothered with properly equipping their army, especially if the core of their military is formed from the Revolutionary Insurgent Army of Ukraine members that managed to flee from Ukraine to Brazil alongside Makhno as well as the Tenestes.
 
All of South America has less coal than Pennsylvania

Will Japan loose or will they sue for peace and switch sides.

It's wholly possible for China and India to have good relations. In OTL their relationship only went bad cause of the Sino-Indian War. Before that, their relationship was rather cordial.

What makes you think that Pakistan will even exist TTL?
In terms of less coal than Pennsylvania, Japan had access to less coal than Pennsylvania, for that matter, I think that was true for all of the other early 20th century powers other than the US, UK, FR and DE.

As for what coal South America does have, see https://pubs.usgs.gov/coal/145/report.pdf .
 
OTL - yeah, but ITTL with access to the Philippines, I am actually not so sure if that's the case anymore.
the Japanese did have *some* coal, Manchuria was grabbed for its Coal and Iron Resources and there is even some in Japan and Asia in *general* has more than half the Coal on the planet, but most of it is in Siberia or more inland China (which the Japanese never really controlled. The Philippines also have some.
But in terms of Coal in one place, between the absolutely *silly* amount of Bituminous Coal in Pennsylvania (and West VA and Kentucky) and the later use of the Anthracite in Wyoming and Colorado, the US was *really* in a good spot.
 
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