The Fire Never Dies: Labor's Star Ascendant

I think that in a scenario with a Red America, a Red New World is somewhat inevitable. I don't have super-specific plans, except that Reds! already did a fascist Brazil, so I'll probably avoid that.
If you're taking suggestions, it would be interesting to have the 1924 revolution succeed in São Paulo, leading to a civil war that ends the Old Rpeublic 6 years earlier, in a much messier way.

I doubt the tenetistas would have a marxist character, but they would still have a radical, socialistic nationalist outlook, it's specially interesting considering that the 3 men of the 30s, Vargas, Salgado and Prestes were all still politically small, respectivelly being a congressman, a modernist writer and a young colonel, so there is a whole different generation of leaders that could form, for one Kubitschek might stay a doctor without serving as a field medic in 1932.

The brazilian anarchist movement 1917-1919 probably still fails, but with a IWW US maybe the Brazilian Communist Party founded in 1922 has a strong Deleonist ideology, to the chagrin of the peasentry.

Also with Germany winning WWI the "young turks" training program will continue, OTL Germany's loss led to its abandoning in favor of French training.
 
I don't know why I found this so amusing, but I did!
God but I fucking love the CPS
They are one of my favorite things that I invented for this timeline.
Oh yes, the split between the upper clergy and the laity (being papered over by Rome because the alternative is losing any influence whatsoever) is likely to remain very distinct. Expect a number of up-and-coming priests to develop Liberation Theology leanings. That said, attempts to go with the Clerical Immunity From Prosecution stunts accompanying the uglier scandals would probably not work out well.

I am not certain how Clerical Unions on a confessional system would work. Perhaps the overall framework would be like OTL's Church Conferences, but participation in those is hardly universal.
What further complicates matters is that the clergy have their own hierarchy that is baked into their theology. In the case of the Catholic Church, the top of that hierarchy is outside the ASU. It's not out of the question that we could see clerical strikes at some point.
In addition to the 'where and how hard to push revolution' questions, I think one dispute would be over how much "pragmatism" there should be in dealings with non-revolutionary states. There is 'Coldly Correct Dealings With The Least Objectionable' and then there are "Try To Rejoin Diplomatic System In Full"
Plus there is the question of who the "least objectionable" are (although Germany tried to be friendly).
If you're taking suggestions, it would be interesting to have the 1924 revolution succeed in São Paulo, leading to a civil war that ends the Old Rpeublic 6 years earlier, in a much messier way.

I doubt the tenetistas would have a marxist character, but they would still have a radical, socialistic nationalist outlook, it's specially interesting considering that the 3 men of the 30s, Vargas, Salgado and Prestes were all still politically small, respectivelly being a congressman, a modernist writer and a young colonel, so there is a whole different generation of leaders that could form, for one Kubitschek might stay a doctor without serving as a field medic in 1932.

The brazilian anarchist movement 1917-1919 probably still fails, but with a IWW US maybe the Brazilian Communist Party founded in 1922 has a strong Deleonist ideology, to the chagrin of the peasentry.
You know what? This is happening. I had no plans for Brazil outside of "don't make them fascist".
 
You know what? This is happening. I had no plans for Brazil outside of "don't make them fascist".
I have a suggestion then: either make their government try to become the next USA (by becoming the next capitalist upshot) or follow for a civil war. I saw many powerful and potential sides, if we do not stop to the big cities...

BTW, I have a question about future oil industry development: since Texas is no more an option for many, and Arabia is still under Ottoman control, there is Libya. Will its industry for oil be developed earlier?
 
I have a suggestion then: either make their government try to become the next USA (by becoming the next capitalist upshot) or follow for a civil war. I saw many powerful and potential sides, if we do not stop to the big cities...
Honestly, a lot of things become easier if Brazil has a civil war with a socialist faction.
BTW, I have a question about future oil industry development: since Texas is no more an option for many, and Arabia is still under Ottoman control, there is Libya. Will its industry for oil be developed earlier?
Libya and Arabia will probably be developed earlier. Arabia is no longer under Ottoman control - they are now limited to Syria, northern Palestine, and northern Iraq. Of course, we can also expect the Ottomans to develop their oil industry.
 
Honestly, a lot of things become easier if Brazil has a civil war with a socialist faction.
THIS IS an EXCELLENT idea; will it be supplied by the ASU? And who might be interested into helping the rights? I kind off imagine Colombia & Argentina upstart an intervention...

Also, Meshakhad: considering Alsace-Loraine is still part of Germany, what will happen to the pro-French movements there?
 
THIS IS an EXCELLENT idea; will it be supplied by the ASU? And who might be interested into helping the rights? I kind off imagine Colombia & Argentina upstart an intervention...
Colombia intervening against the Americans would be a great idea... if they want to see the Red Flag over Bogota. After all, they are already in a position to threaten Panama (although trying to march an army across the Darien Gap would make the Battle of Wilmington look like a pleasant summer outing). Besides, the more important backers will be the European powers...
Also, Meshakhad: considering Alsace-Loraine is still part of Germany, what will happen to the pro-French movements there?
Nothing pleasant.
 
105. The 1919 Constitutional Convention (Part 4)
…All executive powers established by this Constitution shall be invested in the Central Committee, which shall consist of the Premier, the Deputy Premier, and the Commissars…

…The Premier and the Deputy Premier shall both be elected separately every five years for a single five-year term…

…The Premier may not seek election for two successive terms, but may seek election again after one full term has elapsed…

…Any citizen who has reached the age of twenty-five years and has been resident in the American Socialist Union for at least ten years may seek the office of the Premier or Deputy Premier…

…All Commissars shall be elected separately by a majority vote of the House of People’s Representatives following nomination by the Central Committee or the Chamber of Labor Delegates, and subject to recall by the same body. Commissariats may only be established or dissolved by an Act of the Workers’ Congress…

…The Central Committee shall exercise the power of veto over legislation passed by the Workers’ Congress and the nomination of ambassadors and justices of the Supreme Court…

…The Workers’ Congress may by law vest the appointment of other officers of the American Socialist Union, in the Central Committee, in the courts of law, or in the Commissars…

…The Premier shall be the Commander in Chief of the armed forces of the American Socialist Union, shall have the power to negotiate with foreign governments, and with the advice and consent of the Central Committee and the Chamber of Labor Delegates, shall make treaties with such…

- From Article II of the ASU Constitution



…The wrangling over the executive branch was even fiercer than over the legislative branch. Given the actions of President Wilson, there was a strong push for a weaker executive. The Reformists fought back, wielding their experience in the government to argue that a weak executive branch would result in inaction…

…A compromise emerged, proposed by Fred Hardy. Instead of taking powers away from the executive branch as a whole, those powers would be shared among the Commissars. Instead of a Cabinet that served at the pleasure of the President, the Central Committee would collectively execute government policy…

…Even the names of positions were a subject of some dispute. The Constitutionalists wanted to continue calling the head of state the President, citing several labor organizations that used such a title. However, the term “President” was now irrevocably stained by the legacy of Woodrow Wilson. Sam Rayburn, recognizing the mood, endorsed the idea of renaming it, only holding firm that the head of state should have a simple and strong title. After a few hours, “Premier” won out…

…The debate over the creation of the Deputy Premier was quite memorable. Many were of the opinion that the old position of Vice President was utterly pointless and somewhat undemocratic, given that nine times out of ten, people voted based on the President’s name alone. The role of successor-in-waiting could be filled by the General Secretary of the Chamber or one of the Commissars…

…Into the debate came none other than Thomas Marshall. The former Vice President (and, very briefly, acting President) had been the sole Constitutionalist delegate from Ohio. He had won his position on the promise that he would offer up his own experience to guide the creation of a new and better government, then give his support to the decision of the majority, after which he would retire from politics. Now the time had come for him to keep that promise…

…He spoke for nearly half an hour about his experience as Vice President. While he had had relatively few duties, this fact enabled him to focus on keeping track of what the President was doing, thus enabling him to swiftly take office. He also discussed how he had served as Wilson’s deputy (in doing so coining the term “Deputy Premier” in American political lexicon). He did, however, endorse the idea that the Deputy Premier should be elected separately (as many Lieutenant Governors already were), ensuring that the Deputy Premier would be elected on his (or her) own merits…

…The election of Commissars would prove to be one of the few areas where the Constitutionalists won. Many of the Revolutionaries wanted to give as much power to the Chamber of Labor Delegates, seeing it as the more representative body. Bronstein openly stated that he viewed the House of People’s Representatives as a relic to eventually be abolished. However, it was pointed out by Victor Berger that with the Commissariats and Industrial Unions being defined by similar terms, it was inevitable that close relationships would form between, for example, the Commissariat for Agriculture and the Agricultural Workers’ Union. The House, with its geographic organization, would be better suited to provide oversight. As a concession, the Chamber would be able to nominate Commissars, on the basis that those same ties would give them a natural familiarity with who might be a good candidate…

…The initiative to prohibit Premiers from serving multiple consecutive terms came, surprisingly, from the man who was all but certain to become the first Premier: Eugene Debs. Debs was somewhat concerned for his health[1] and feared that he might not make it through two terms. This would in turn set an unofficial precedent of Premiers serving for life. He believed that having a higher rate of turnover would be healthy for the nation…

…One area where the Constitutionalists proved surprisingly reasonable was on the timing of elections. The lame duck period between election and inauguration was almost universally recognized as an artifact of the nation’s founding before the advent of railroads and the telegraph. It was blatantly obvious that April 23rd, the anniversary of the Battle of Manhattan, would become a national holiday, as would May 1st. Thus, April 23rd would become Election Day, ensuring that everyone was free from work to come and vote. May 1st would become Inauguration Day. When some of the Constitutionalists questioned if a government could be assembled that quickly, it was pointed out that an immediate transition was routine in many countries…

…By contrast, arguments over the judiciary were very brief. Partly out of a desire to appease the Constitutionalists, the only changes made were the implementation of term limits. Each of the nine Supreme Court Justice would serve for ten years, with one elected by the House every year save for years when both the Premiership and the House were up for reelection…

- From A New Union: A Political History of the American Socialist Union by Hillary Rodham

[1] IOTL, Debs died in 1926, just seven years after this point. ITTL, he never went to prison, so his health is better, but the stress of leading the Revolution hasn’t done him any favors.
 
So there's still a supreme court, huh?

I hope it gets its power removed over time.
Honestly i think the term limits fix the institutional issues of the Supreme Court. A lot of issues with the Supreme Court OTL is relying on its rulings to legislate for the country even though its decisions can be reversed if its not subsequently enshrined by an act of congress
 
Honestly i think the term limits fix the institutional issues of the Supreme Court. A lot of issues with the Supreme Court OTL is relying on its rulings to legislate for the country even though its decisions can be reversed if its not subsequently enshrined by an act of congress
And an age limit wouldn't hurt. Also making their confirmation votes determined by elections might also make it more democratic since they're the only branch of government that isn't elected.
 
Now the suggestion of ruling for life is really interesting! I think you said you were planning to end the story after the convention and that's absolutely fine, but I'd love to hear which Premiers were elected, even if just in list format.
 
Now the suggestion of ruling for life is really interesting! I think you said you were planning to end the story after the convention and that's absolutely fine, but I'd love to hear which Premiers were elected, even if just in list format.
To be clear, I never intended to end The Fire Never Dies after the convention. I will be ending Labor's Star Ascendant, though. There will be a sequel (with a new thread).
 
Colombia intervening against the Americans would be a great idea... if they want to see the Red Flag over Bogota. After all, they are already in a position to threaten Panama (although trying to march an army across the Darien Gap would make the Battle of Wilmington look like a pleasant summer outing). Besides, the more important backers will be the European powers...
THis is why the war will not be directly against the Americans, but against the socialist revolutionaries they are backing, in an indirect war (kind off like a Cold War one, where two big powers fight by helping each one a side and seeing who wins).

Also, small idea about Alaska: due to closeness to Russia, I guess many russian expratriates will try and move there: will some Russian aristocrat be there? This could both help Alaska being colonized AND give fertile ground both for new socialist help forward Russia and a safe asylum for many expatriate.
 
I get the impression you are talking past each other for the most part. Big Reservations becoming StatesCommonwealths (maybe with mandated language lessons in public schools)/SSRs and smaller ones becoming CountiesWhatever-The-Second-Order-Political-Divisions-Wind-Up-Getting-Called/ASSRs is what you are both looking at, yes?
When you get right down to it, yeah I suppose we are.
 
THis is why the war will not be directly against the Americans, but against the socialist revolutionaries they are backing, in an indirect war (kind off like a Cold War one, where two big powers fight by helping each one a side and seeing who wins).
Plus their volunteer brigades.
Also, small idea about Alaska: due to closeness to Russia, I guess many russian expratriates will try and move there: will some Russian aristocrat be there? This could both help Alaska being colonized AND give fertile ground both for new socialist help forward Russia and a safe asylum for many expatriate.
Russian aristocrats will either seek exile in Europe or stay in Russia. Alaska isn't really close to Russia's population centers.
 
To be clear, I never intended to end The Fire Never Dies after the convention. I will be ending Labor's Star Ascendant, though. There will be a sequel (with a new thread).
Oh, that's entirely on me. I'm a dumbass, misread your comments. Ignore the idiot in the room by all means!

(Incidentally, love the way you are breaking down how this new America is going to look, really great stuff.)
 
Top