You don't. The can of hell you'd open by even attemping to evacuate Chicagoland would be catastrophic. That's what Jim Edgar is going to bring up in that next meeting between the executive officials.
The Fighting Illini - P&S: Illinois
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You don't. The can of hell you'd open by even attemping to evacuate Chicagoland would be catastrophic. That's what Jim Edgar is going to bring up in that next meeting between the executive officials.
Hello! I like this thread quite a bit - consider me subscribed!
Anyhow, there's some P&S-related stuff you might want to check out in regards to writing about Illinois and Chicago during the nuclear war. Some stuff regarding Chicago has been covered in an earlier P&S thread The Day After: An American Spinoff of Protect and Survive by Gen_Patton. It's not a very long thread, only 4 pages long. Check out on Page 3.
It's mentioned that two out six 550-kt warheads carried atop a UR-100 ICBM detonate over Chicago - one just south of Chicago O'Hare Airport and the other at the intersection of I-90 and I-290 (basically very close to The Loop). But Gen_Patton mentions that apparently the Great Lakes Naval Station didn't get hit.
However, more warheads than was mentioned could have rained down on the Chicagoland area later on during the nuclear exchange either with ICBMs or Soviet bombers several hours later, since this was the 2nd largest city in the US at the time.
The other thing is this list on pg. 43 of from yet another thread: Protect and Survive: A Timeline started by Macragge1. It shows a list of US cities which were known to members of the White House staff to have been hit by Soviet nukes at the time of the ongoing nuclear war. For Illinois:
Aurora
Berwyn
Chicago
Decatur
East St. Louis
Oak Park
Springfield
Anyhow, there's some P&S-related stuff you might want to check out in regards to writing about Illinois and Chicago during the nuclear war. Some stuff regarding Chicago has been covered in an earlier P&S thread The Day After: An American Spinoff of Protect and Survive by Gen_Patton. It's not a very long thread, only 4 pages long. Check out on Page 3.
It's mentioned that two out six 550-kt warheads carried atop a UR-100 ICBM detonate over Chicago - one just south of Chicago O'Hare Airport and the other at the intersection of I-90 and I-290 (basically very close to The Loop). But Gen_Patton mentions that apparently the Great Lakes Naval Station didn't get hit.
However, more warheads than was mentioned could have rained down on the Chicagoland area later on during the nuclear exchange either with ICBMs or Soviet bombers several hours later, since this was the 2nd largest city in the US at the time.
The other thing is this list on pg. 43 of from yet another thread: Protect and Survive: A Timeline started by Macragge1. It shows a list of US cities which were known to members of the White House staff to have been hit by Soviet nukes at the time of the ongoing nuclear war. For Illinois:
Aurora
Berwyn
Chicago
Decatur
East St. Louis
Oak Park
Springfield
I've seen both of those lists and I have problems with them. The Chicago hit I have no problem with, I was planning for one in the Loop. I was thinking about another hit for Evanston to destroy Northwestern University and to kill the population. Another problem I have is that Great Lakes Naval Station wasn't hit. It is the Navy's ONLY boot camp. That and Waukegan could take on a role as an important port city post-Exchange.
Now about Macragge's list. Aurora I agree with. Berwyn could just be a population strike, so I'll reevaluate my targeting list and look at the population. Decatur has nothing of value besides an Army National Guard Armory there, so that strike seems like a waste. East St. Louis I haven't looked into, but I'll check it out. Oak Park, like Berwyn, could be a population strike. I'll check the population numbers around Chicago.
vl100butch
Donor
There are certain military resources in the P&S world that came through undamaged...
in my opinion the largest portion of them are National Guard installations but with the luck of the draw with whatever missiles actually got out of the silo and then made it to their targets sometimes an active duty installation came through...
in my opinion the largest portion of them are National Guard installations but with the luck of the draw with whatever missiles actually got out of the silo and then made it to their targets sometimes an active duty installation came through...
That is true. But in that list that Macragge made he only specified cities and not military facilities. There's so many Army National Guard bases in Illinois that a lot of them would survive. But there's only 3 Air National Guard Bases (Springfield, Peoria, and Scott AFB) and all of those places are fairly important targets in the grand scheme of things.
Final Nuclear Targeting List
I want to get a final nuclear target list agreed upon before I begin writing the next update. Here's what I'm thinking:
Chicagoland-1 for the Loop, 1 for Aurora, 1 for Naperville, 1 for Joliet, 1 for Kenosha, 1 for Elgin, 1 for Tinley Park (7 hits total)
O'Hare and Midway Airports-1 hit each
Great Lakes Naval Base-1 hit
Scott Air Force Base-1 hit
Chanute Air Force Base-1 hit
Springfield-1 or 2 hits, still undecided about this one. (The airport is important and has an Air National Guard Base, but the city center could be targeted as well)
Rockford-1 hit
Illinois Quad Cities area-2 hits (1 for Moline, 1 for Rock Island)
Peoria-2 hits (1 for city, 1 for airport)
What do you guys think?
I want to get a final nuclear target list agreed upon before I begin writing the next update. Here's what I'm thinking:
Chicagoland-1 for the Loop, 1 for Aurora, 1 for Naperville, 1 for Joliet, 1 for Kenosha, 1 for Elgin, 1 for Tinley Park (7 hits total)
O'Hare and Midway Airports-1 hit each
Great Lakes Naval Base-1 hit
Scott Air Force Base-1 hit
Chanute Air Force Base-1 hit
Springfield-1 or 2 hits, still undecided about this one. (The airport is important and has an Air National Guard Base, but the city center could be targeted as well)
Rockford-1 hit
Illinois Quad Cities area-2 hits (1 for Moline, 1 for Rock Island)
Peoria-2 hits (1 for city, 1 for airport)
What do you guys think?
The Glenview area is so close in proximity to Evanston that a nuclear strike in Evanston would destroy Glenview. Highland Park is a bit further north up the coast but it is sandwiched in between nuclear strikes at Great Lakes Naval Base and Evanston, and would likely receive heavy fallout from both locations.
Chapter II
Planning for the Apocalypse-Part III
Springfield, Illinois
February 9, 1984
A fun little note: There was a measurable snowfall in northern Illinois yesterday. Snow. In northern Illinois. In the middle of May.
All of the executive officials were sitting in a conference room in Springfield, dread in their minds. They had all seen Edgar's list and were scared for the post-nuclear war situation in their state, if a nuclear war happened. With the way the world was slowly going to hell though, nuclear war, in their minds, was a certain thing.
"Before we begin to discuss our agricultural and industrial situation, I would like to take a moment to discuss evacuation." said Jim Thompson. He paused for a moment, and then continued. "I think we all recognize that even attempting to evacuate the Chicagoland area would be a nightmare. There would be riots. There would be deaths. We are going to have to let Chicagoland go."
A silence filled the room. Thompson had just sentenced almost 8 million people to their deaths.
Jim Edgar was the first to speak up. "He's right. There's no way we can even attempt to evacuate Chicago without starting massive rioting and panic."
"Seconded." said George Ryan.
"I know this is a tough decision for all of us to make, but this is a cakewalk compared to the decision we'll have to make in the event of a nuclear war." said Thompson.
Again, silence filled the room. After a few moments, Treasurer James Donnewald spoke up.
"What's the status of our industrial and agricultural situations?" asked Donnewald.
"Right now, it's winter. We obviously can't grow anything right now, and if this god-awful winter is any indication, then the kind of weather we'll be dealing with in a post-nuclear war world will be hard to plant in. We may not be able to plant crops until May or June, and we'll be lucky if we harvest anything edible." said Edgar.
"We could try and plant immediately post war." said Attorney General Neil Hartigan. "There's a lot of farmland in between Springfield and Joliet. The whole central part of the state can be dedicated to cropland, with the southern part producing whatever little machinery they can."
"East St. Louis, if it isn't hit and with all the old parts they have there, could use those parts to build whatever machinery they can. That's something else we can do statewide-break down old machinery, take out the parts that are still useful, and then throw away the rest." said Edgar.
"They'll need a lot of luck to not get hit. St. Louis is right across the river from them." said Comptroller Roland Burris.
"What about the Quad Cities and Peoria? Can't we just send some machinery from John Deere and Caterpillar down to the University and use it post-war?" asked Donnewald.
"No, and we've already covered this before. If we send machinery down to the University, someone might start to get a little suspicious. And I do NOT want to deal with any suspicious people." said Thompson. "We will just have to wait and see what industry and agriculture we can have and use. Everyone here knows how that phrase goes-no plan survives first contact with the enemy."
Choruses of "True" rang out across the room.
"We'll just have to wait and see now. No more planning, just action." said Thompson. "Go do your jobs. Get the necessary people to the University-engineers, doctors, whoever or whatever might be useful. I do not want to be caught with my dick in my hands when the nukes start flying."
Planning for the Apocalypse-Part III
Springfield, Illinois
February 9, 1984
A fun little note: There was a measurable snowfall in northern Illinois yesterday. Snow. In northern Illinois. In the middle of May.
All of the executive officials were sitting in a conference room in Springfield, dread in their minds. They had all seen Edgar's list and were scared for the post-nuclear war situation in their state, if a nuclear war happened. With the way the world was slowly going to hell though, nuclear war, in their minds, was a certain thing.
"Before we begin to discuss our agricultural and industrial situation, I would like to take a moment to discuss evacuation." said Jim Thompson. He paused for a moment, and then continued. "I think we all recognize that even attempting to evacuate the Chicagoland area would be a nightmare. There would be riots. There would be deaths. We are going to have to let Chicagoland go."
A silence filled the room. Thompson had just sentenced almost 8 million people to their deaths.
Jim Edgar was the first to speak up. "He's right. There's no way we can even attempt to evacuate Chicago without starting massive rioting and panic."
"Seconded." said George Ryan.
"I know this is a tough decision for all of us to make, but this is a cakewalk compared to the decision we'll have to make in the event of a nuclear war." said Thompson.
Again, silence filled the room. After a few moments, Treasurer James Donnewald spoke up.
"What's the status of our industrial and agricultural situations?" asked Donnewald.
"Right now, it's winter. We obviously can't grow anything right now, and if this god-awful winter is any indication, then the kind of weather we'll be dealing with in a post-nuclear war world will be hard to plant in. We may not be able to plant crops until May or June, and we'll be lucky if we harvest anything edible." said Edgar.
"We could try and plant immediately post war." said Attorney General Neil Hartigan. "There's a lot of farmland in between Springfield and Joliet. The whole central part of the state can be dedicated to cropland, with the southern part producing whatever little machinery they can."
"East St. Louis, if it isn't hit and with all the old parts they have there, could use those parts to build whatever machinery they can. That's something else we can do statewide-break down old machinery, take out the parts that are still useful, and then throw away the rest." said Edgar.
"They'll need a lot of luck to not get hit. St. Louis is right across the river from them." said Comptroller Roland Burris.
"What about the Quad Cities and Peoria? Can't we just send some machinery from John Deere and Caterpillar down to the University and use it post-war?" asked Donnewald.
"No, and we've already covered this before. If we send machinery down to the University, someone might start to get a little suspicious. And I do NOT want to deal with any suspicious people." said Thompson. "We will just have to wait and see what industry and agriculture we can have and use. Everyone here knows how that phrase goes-no plan survives first contact with the enemy."
Choruses of "True" rang out across the room.
"We'll just have to wait and see now. No more planning, just action." said Thompson. "Go do your jobs. Get the necessary people to the University-engineers, doctors, whoever or whatever might be useful. I do not want to be caught with my dick in my hands when the nukes start flying."
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I would think that many people would think to evacuate cities like Chicago once the first nuke explodes in a conflict between the US and USSR.
Anyone who can get out, will.
There will be those who can't get out because they don't have a personal vehicle to leave on. Or, because every road out of the city is jammed.
Chicago is going to be a mess for so many reasons. Of course, this will be the case from New York to L.A., in every large and medium-sized city.
The question is once people get out, where will they go?
Another question: what will people in places like Springfield or the Quad Cities, where a percentage of the locals may think 'we're small, we're not gonna get nuked'?
A greater percentage of the population may not evacuate because they think they're safe, or think they're safer and are willing to risk the odds.
Anyone who can get out, will.
There will be those who can't get out because they don't have a personal vehicle to leave on. Or, because every road out of the city is jammed.
Chicago is going to be a mess for so many reasons. Of course, this will be the case from New York to L.A., in every large and medium-sized city.
The question is once people get out, where will they go?
Another question: what will people in places like Springfield or the Quad Cities, where a percentage of the locals may think 'we're small, we're not gonna get nuked'?
A greater percentage of the population may not evacuate because they think they're safe, or think they're safer and are willing to risk the odds.
What is important about hitting the Navy's boot camp when you've taken out America's fleet facilities and shipyards? They can recruit all they want but if you hit fleet bases and any shipyards capable of building blue water combatants you've already made the existence of the Navy pointless.
vl100butch
Donor
Avondale on the Mississippi River north of the Huey Long Bridge in New Orleans came through undamaged...there are also a large number of smaller yards in Cajun country that can build smaller vessels as well...there may not be a yard capable of building a carrier, but a building capability survived the exchange...
Chicago is going to be a mess, no doubt about it. When the conventional war starts in Europe on February 18, people will stampede to get out of town, so the highways leading out will be jammed by then. If by some miracle people make it out, hopefully they'll have enough common sense to head downstate away from the Chicagoland area.
Springfield residents will probably be thinking 'We're the state capital, there's a chance we'll get hit, so let's evacuate just in case' while hopefully Quad Cities residents will think 'We have industry here, and industry is important, so we might get hit as well'.
Since the question has come up so much in planning sessions, you can bet that a member of the cabinet will probably arrange for some machinery to be sent downstate behind Governor Thompson's back.
Assuming Great Lakes isn't hit:
Short term: Great Lakes will be useless in the short term because the emergency government is located in Columbia (Walla Walla) and all Naval training will take place there.
Long term: Once the Columbian government establishes contact with Illinois and readmits it to the Union, Great Lakes will take on more of an important role since Orlando and San Diego* were destroyed, and could see an expansion to being an important port in the Great Lakes region since Chicago has been destroyed.
*San Diego and Orlando also had Navy boot camps in 1984
Then again, what I've said is kind of a very improbable guess, but it's a possibility.
Future updates
The early part of my week is busy so I doubt I'll be able to write a lengthy update tomorrow or Tuesday. I'll do one update concerning the reaction to the start of the conventional war on Wednesday, and then take a break to begin writing a long update concerning the Exchange and the immediate aftermath, which will likely be done and up here Sunday or next Monday.
The early part of my week is busy so I doubt I'll be able to write a lengthy update tomorrow or Tuesday. I'll do one update concerning the reaction to the start of the conventional war on Wednesday, and then take a break to begin writing a long update concerning the Exchange and the immediate aftermath, which will likely be done and up here Sunday or next Monday.