The Federal Union of Scandinavian Kingdoms

[Zoidberg12]

This is just a rough draft of a sort of short story I wrote way back in January of this year. It's pretty much an idea I had about the the ultimate United Scandinavia, and I kinda build a world around this scenario. I have a simple map somewhere, but all I remember is that Germany, Great Britain and Scandinavia win TTL's world war against France and Russia. No real POD or anything, I never got that far. I know it might not be all that plausible, but just sit back and enjoy. I'm probably not going to make into a full-blown Timeline or anything, I didn't really intend to when I wrote this, but I decided It would be something nice to post here for people to see, rather than it just laying in my Microsoft Word document, which it has been for almost a year . I am proud of it, and I want to know where you guys want me to take this if I ever do take it anywhere.

Also, this story was partly inspired by these three works on deviant-art. Credit goes to them for inspiration.

Anyway, here it is.....

The Federal Union of Scandinavian Kingdoms

Forbunds Union I Krongeriger Skandinavien (Danish)
Forbunds Union av Krongeriken Skandinavisk (Norwegian)
Förbunds Unionen av Kungariken Skandinavien (Swedish)
Federatiivinen Unioni ita Kuningaskuntia Skandinaavinen (Finnish)

As of 1910, The Federal Union of Scandinavia is one of the world’s leading powers and a close ally of the British Empire. Scandinavia is made up of eleven autonomous Kingdoms, originally formed from the Unification of Denmark-Norway and Sweden in 1866.

After the Second Schleswig War was fought in 1864 to a stalemate, the Great Powers of Europe convened in London to settle the Schleswig-Holstein Question with plebiscites being held in the contested regions.

Most voted to become part of Germany, but the majority in Northern Schleswig voted for unification with Denmark. Even though the threat of angering Germany passed, Sweden was willing to unite with Denmark-Norway, in an effort to create a strong union of Scandinavian Kingdoms to protect from foreign (“French and German”) aggression.

The Union between Denmark-Norway and Sweden was made official when the Treaty of Stockholm was singed on November 19th, 1866. The Scandinavian Constitution was approved months later, on May 20th, 1867. According the Constitution, each Scandinavian Kingdom would be ruled by its own Monarch and Prime Minister. The Symbolic Head of the Union is the “Emperor of Scandinavia”, elected by the perspective Parliaments of each of the individual Kingdoms. The first emperor, Christian I, was elected unanimously, but it was agreed that future emperors would be elected after the death of the predeceasing emperor. The emperor would also remain the Head of the union and his own kingdom simultaneously.

The Head of Government for the Union is the “President of Scandinavia”.

The Union originally contained three constituent kingdoms, The Kingdom of Denmark, the Kingdom of Norway, and the Kingdom of Sweden. The Union also contained three automatous Kingdoms within Denmark; the Kingdom of Iceland, the Kingdom of Greenland and the Kingdom of the Faroe Islands. The Virgin Islands were made a colony of the Union.

Since then, Scandinavia has attempted to remain neutral in foreign wars. However during the Great War (1901-1908) the unions thirty five year policy of neutrality ended, as they, along with Britain and their once rival Germany declared war on the Franco- Russian Alliance, after the Kiev Affair.

Propaganda Poster (Circa 1905)

The War was a great success for Scandinavia, as they gained many new lands from the defeated Russian Empire. The treaty ending the Great War in 1908 was signed in the Scandinavian capital, Malmö. As per the treaty, the newly conquered lands were formed into four constituent kingdoms, Finland, Estonia, Karelia and Sami.

Constituent Kingdoms

The Kingdom of Denmark (August 10th, 1867)
Kongeriget Danmark


The Kingdom of Norway (1866)
Kongeriket Norge


The Kingdom of Sweden (1866)
Konungariket Sverige


The Kingdom of Iceland (1874)


The Kingdom of Greenland (1878)


The Kingdom of the Faroe Islands (1881)


Kingdom of the Virgin Islands (1886)


The Kingdom of Finland (1908)
Kiningaskunta Suomi


The Kingdom of Estonia (1908)


The Kingdom of Karelia (1908)


The Kingdom of the Sami (1908)


List of Scandinavian Emperors:
Christian XI (1863-1906)
Haakon VII (1906- )

List of Danish Monarchs under the Union:
Christian XI (1863-1906)
Frederick VIII (1906- )

List of Norwegian Monarchs under the Union:
Christian XI (1863-1884)
Haakon VII (1884- )

List of Swedish Monarchs under the Union:
Karl XV (1859-1872)
Oscar II (1872-1907)
Gustav V (1907- )

List of Icelandic Monarchs under the Union:
Christian XI (1874-1906)
King Hannes I (1906- )

List of Virgin Islands Monarchs under the Union:
King Christian I (1886- )

List of Finnish Monarchs under the Union:
King Gustav I (1908- )

List of Finnish PMs under the Union:
Baron C. G. E. Mannerheim (1908- )

I had images, but I will add those later today or tomorrow maybe.

Does this belong on the AH writers board? I wasn't sure so I just posted it here since it dealt with pre-1900 history . If it belongs in the other board, a mod can move it.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Any feedback?

 

[Zoidberg12]

No one? Comments, criticism, suggestions and ideas are more than welcome.

 

[Enigmajones]

Work on a TL, rough scenarios are rather ill received. Also comments are sparingly for those too. Unless you have a big following.

 

[eliphas8]

I think you should go into more detail on how each of the union members organize themselves, do they have their own parliaments? How indpendent are these parliaments from the federal government? Who holds the most power local parliaments or federal parliament?

Also how did the Sami get their own kingdom, same with the Greenland, at most that should probably be combined with Iceland.

And finally, why president? I would have gone for the term "Prime Minister" if only because a "President" doesn't exist in most parliamentary monarchies.

 

[Thespitron 6000]

You couldn't have called it the Federal Union of Nordic Kingdoms? Bring on the noise, bring on the FUNK!

 

[von Adler]

The Swedish is horribly mangled (I think the others are too, but a Norwegian and Dane would have to answer that).

Förbunds Unionen av Kungariken Skandinavien (Swedish) would be Förbundsunionen av Skandinaviska Kungariken (which sounds strange), or, more likely Skandinaviska Förbundsunionen or Skandinaviska Kungarikenas Förbundsunion.

France had no interests in Scandinavia in the 1860s and the last time they showed up, was as a part of the allied squadron in the Baltic fighting the Russians during the Crimean War, conducting themselves excellently in everything. Scandinavia would have no quarrels with France.

Russia and Germany were the enemies - Russia to Sweden and Germany to Denmark.

You are aware that Sweden took Norway from Denmark 1814 and forced it into a union with Sweden? It would be Denmark joining with Sweden-Norway, not Sweden joining with Denmark-Norway (unless you change things further back).

While I can see Iceland getting its own parliament, I seriously doubt the Virgin Islands, Faroe Islands or Greenland would. And none of them would become Kingdoms in their own right - they are too small, and in the era one did not just create Kingdoms and Crowns out of nothing - Virgin Islands, Iceland and Greenland would remain part of the Danish crown.

Karelia would be part of the Finnish Kingdom, if one was created. And I seriously doubt there would be a Sami Kingdom - non-integrated Sami are semi-nomadic people at this time and very few.

I guess Estonia could get a crown, but I probably think it would be a Duchy with the Swedish King as Duke.

I suspect the most agreeable government would be a joint council - the members would be appointed by the government of the three countries. A President of the council would be a proper title, but I suspect one of the Prime Ministers will hold it - the only power of the position would be the joint foreign policy of the Union, as all other matters would be national.

Mannerheim is a 41 years old colonel in the Imperial Russian army 1908 (besides, he was close to destitute due to hos divorce and severe gambling debt) - while it is possible that he would switch if Finland was forced from Russia, he would most likely have fought for Russia in the war and would probably not be seen as favourable becuase of this.

Here's a list of more likely candidates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_Evind_Svinhufvud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaarlo_Castrén
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaarlo_Juho_Ståhlberg

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

President might be too republican sounding for the Head of Government. I suggest Prime Minister, or if you don't want the head of the federal government to have the same name as the heads of the subnational governments, maybe you should go with Chancellor since that title at least has some vaguely royal connections.

Also, as Von Adler said, the Swedish name for the union is quite mangled.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

That Finnish, it hurts. The Swedish too btw.
Kingdoms of Finland would be Suomen kuningaskunta
Federal Union of Scandinavian kingdom would be:
Pohjoismaiden kuningaskuntien liittovaltio

von Adler already corrected your Swedish.

Wouldn't be surprised if the Danish and Norwegian is bollocks too, but I'm not an expert on either language.

 

[Bastiram]

Forbunds Union I Krongeriger Skandinavien (Danish)

definetly wrong, not sure how to correct it tho. Forbunds unionen i de Skandinaviske Kongeriger ? some other Dane can probably answer if that is correct or not !

 

[Sian]

The danish version sounding least odd would be something in the line of

"Den Skandinaviske Forbundsunion" - The Scandinavian Federal Union

or maybe an official, formal version being

"Forbundsunionen af de Skandinaviske Kongeriger" ... although it still sounds somewhat glaring

For info on where this POD is most likely placed check This Wikilink ... in short, Sweden should actively support Denmark in the Second Schleswiger War. And then this movement might very well gain enough traction to become a reality.

That said, it would be unlikely that anyone would count more than 6 crowns ... Kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden being the primary three, with Iceland, Finland and Estonia most likely being independent duchies (given some musical chairs you could certainly explain away giving the duchy of Iceland to the Norwegian king (giving them a new royal line, most likely though a Danish cadet line), Duchy of Estonia to the Danish King, and Finland to the Swedish King)

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

The danish version sounding least odd would be something in the line of

"Den Skandinaviske Forbundsunion" - The Scandinavian Federal Union

or maybe an official, formal version being

"Forbundsunionen af de Skandinaviske Kongeriger" ... although it still sounds somewhat glaring

For info on where this POD is most likely placed check This Wikilink ... in short, Sweden should actively support Denmark in the Second Schleswiger War. And then this movement might very well gain enough traction to become a reality.

That said, it would be unlikely that anyone would count more than 6 crowns ... Kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden being the primary three, with Iceland, Finland and Estonia most likely being independent duchies (given some musical chairs you could certainly explain away giving the duchy of Iceland to the Norwegian king (giving them a new royal line, most likely though a Danish cadet line), Duchy of Estonia to the Danish King, and Finland to the Swedish King)

It'd be more likely to be a Swedish cadet line since Norway was in personal union with Sweden during the specified dates. Also, the Duchy of Estonia would probably be under the Swedish king since it's more in the Swedish sphere of influence than the Danish one. And of the two countries, Sweden's the one which ruled over Estonia most recently.

Oh and I think it's more likely that Finland would get it's own crown instead of being under the Swedish one at this point in time. I also don't see much reason for Denmark willingly transferring Iceland to the Norwegian crown either.

 

[Olligarchy]

Some points on Finland:

• I don't see Karelia and Sami getting independence from them (or even wanting it?) It's best to incorporate Karelia into Finland and divide up the lands that Sami hold between the Finns, Swedes and Norweigians with the Sami having some privileged positions.
• The Finnish language was corrected already.
• In relation to points above: if you want to ham up the Kingdom of Finland the name should be "Suur-Suomi" or "Greater Finland." The whole title would be Suur-Suomen Kuningaskunta (Kingdom of Greater Finland).

Also:

• Hasn't Estonia historically been a Duchy, and due to its small size unlikely to get a Crown of its own? Either incorporate it into Sweden, Denmark or if nothing else works; Finland due to close linguistic ties.

All in all I'd be interested in following or even contributing to a TL like this. As with all things, fine-tuning is needed, but that is half the fun.

 

[von Adler]

I think Estonia can have its own crown - it will just not be a Royal Crown. A Ducal Crown is fine too.

 

[Olligarchy]

That's a good point, and depending on the amount of land that was won in the war and is incorporated into Estonia it might even be a Grand Ducal one? Though if the Virgin isles get a King, why wouldn't Estonia?

Personally I'd do this:

• Combine all the isles on the Atlantic with Greenland and Iceland and have them be a "Kingdom of the North Sea" or something.
• Incorporate Karelia into Finland.
• Divide up the Sami lands to the three Kingdoms surrounding them.
• Either incorporate Estonia into Sweden, Denmark or Finland OR make them a (Grand) Duchy.

I think the number of "Kingdoms" should be cut-down to the nations that actually have the landmass/prestige to claim it. Duchies, Grand or otherwise are fine for most of the islands, but there really should be only four real "Kings" that are the bigger nations. This means that Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and MAYBE Iceland should have a King. Others would be Dukes, Grand Dukes or something.

 

[Gorm the Old]

"Den Skandinaviske Forbundsunion" - The Scandinavian Federal Union

Yeah, that sounds much better, though Forbundsunionen Skandinavien could work as well. (Based on the official name of Germany) It sounds kind of strange/old-fashioned to me, but that's not really weird if we assume a union in the 19th century.

"Forbundsunionen af de Skandinaviske Kongeriger" ... although it still sounds somewhat glaring

Same goes for this. Weird to our ears, but we're also separated by over a century from this state. It becomes even more true if the POD is further back.

Other alternate names:

"Skandinaviske Forbundsriger"
"Skandinaviske Unionsriger"
"Forbundsunionen af de Forenede Skandinaviske Kongeriger og Norden"

I think the number of "Kingdoms" should be cut-down to the nations that actually have the landmass/prestige to claim it. Duchies, Grand or otherwise are fine for most of the islands, but there really should be only four real "Kings" that are the bigger nations. This means that Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and MAYBE Iceland should have a King. Others would be Dukes, Grand Dukes or something.

Iceland at least managed to become a kingdom in OTL, so it seems a real possibility. Maybe not initially, but an evolution towards a stronger federal government would likely mean that demands for regional autonomy would evolve pretty naturally. Still, there are the internal power struggles to deal with. A Sweden that includes Skåne, Halland and Blekinge* is quite the heavyweight in any Scandinavian relationship, which would likely lead to opposition against any attempt to weaken Denmark's position. Greenland and other territories would certainly remain Danish though, what with its population being matched and exceeded by plenty of towns. (Not to mention having a non-Scandinavian majority.)

Estonia as part of the union could of course happen with a late conquests, but perhaps it would be more beneficial to have it come much earlier? Ideally, Estonia (or the Baltics in general) could be a Danish project while Karelia is a Swedish one. I've suggested the idea before, but it would basically require Denmark to align along Swedish ambitions instead of getting too involved in Germany. Which would imply either one of our German kings "going native", or the Germans getting replaced by a native dynasty. Aligning with Germany would include more rights for the peasants, which would make it much harder for any Swedish separatist to gain the support of the peasantry by making the Danish king out as a tyrant. Similarly, a Swedish king would be preferable to Danish peasants, as a known entity compared to the possibility of getting a more serfdom-friendly German one. Similarly, nobles from either country would see the value in the union, as they would both have an antagonistic relationship with Russia.

*Keeping the former Norwegian provinces Norwegian would also help keep the three kingdoms on par, which would be useful in a union of equals. A union of Scandinavia on the Prussian model probably isn't going to work since the political divisions run pretty deep (the borders might change, but the idea of Norway/Denmark/Sweden is far harder to mess with.), so a union of equals seems more stable to me. The major issue is really aligning interests, which should be easier if we fix the problem of the Danish kings. With similar interests and broad cooperation, the dialects of Scandinavia would likely converge to some degree, instead of diverge. Eventually, most people would be Scandinavian first, Danish/Norwegian/Swedish second. Being a more sizable minority, the people of these countries would probably also see more opportunities to actually the larger federal body. Contrast that with Scotland, which is far too small for the English to truly give two shits about their opinions.

 

[Sian]

Historically at that point in time neither Iceland or Finland (or Estonia for that case) had any serious claim for being called a kingdom (admittedly, Finland had a 'crown' in ancient times, and Charles IX called himself king of the finns from 1607-1611 because he felt like he deserved another crown, but other than that) but could argue for semi autonomous grand duchies at best ... (true ... Iceland got home rule in 1874, and declared itself a kingdom with shared monachy with Denmark in 1918, but both is after the POD)

 

[Sian]

It'd be more likely to be a Swedish cadet line since Norway was in personal union with Sweden during the specified dates. Also, the Duchy of Estonia would probably be under the Swedish king since it's more in the Swedish sphere of influence than the Danish one. And of the two countries, Sweden's the one which ruled over Estonia most recently.

But when they actually got the chance to choose themselves, Norway went to the younger brother of the Danish king asking him to take up the crown ... from what i gather the Dano-Norwegian union was more even than the Swedish-Norwegian, which was seen as a straight off usurpation of power.

 

[Gorm the Old]

Historically at that point in time neither Iceland or Finland (or Estonia for that case) had any serious claim for being called a kingdom (admittedly, Finland had a 'crown' in ancient times, and Charles IX called himself king of the finns from 1607-1611 because he felt like he deserved another crown, but other than that) but could argue for semi autonomous grand duchies at best

Finland would probably end up getting a crown as the whole thing moves towards a constitutional monarchy, as the will of the people becomes more and more important. If the Finnish region includes the "natural borders", and we add the OTL population of the places then it's pretty much the same population as the three Scandinavian kingdoms.* Seems to me it would be hard to argue that the Finns don't deserve a kingdom if they want it, when the monarchy exists at the sufferance of the people.

*Assuming pre-Swedish conquests borders.

(true ... Iceland got home rule in 1874, and declared itself a kingdom with shared monachy with Denmark in 1918, but both is after the POD)

Saying that it "declared itself a kingdom" implies to me that it was against Danish wishes, while as far as I know it was a pretty mutual thing. Just a small piece of pedantry.

And yeah, it's after the POD, but it at least shows that a kingdom title is not completely ridiculous. Not to the extent that a Kingdom of Greenland is at least!

 

[Sian]

point taken

... about the crown of Norway ...

would it be unlikely to postulate that there could have been made an agreement between Denmark and Sweden (and Norway) that a secondary son of Frederik VIII of Denmark and Louise of Sweden (Daughter of Charles XV, and niece of Oscar I) gained the title? ... we'd end out with the same Haakon VII on the throne, but given the ties to both royal houses