Status
Not open for further replies.
There was also the Wasserfall ground-to-air missile under development. It was based on the V2, with some modifications such as a longer shelf-life, improved guidance and proximity detonators. OTL, it was under development as of 1943 at Peenemünde - early testing was promising and the missile was explicitly designed for anti-bomber work.

Nothing came of it IOTL because of the sheer development needed to make it a functional weapon. There were some test-firings, but the Soviet advance forced an evacuation of Peenemünde before development finished.

So, theoretically circa 45/46 (with 46 more likely) the Reich gets to field SAM batteries capable of bringing down multiple bombers per missile (assuming close formations - the development switched to a larger warhead specifically to catch multiple bombers per missile).
Yeah. German tech, wunderwaffen all this....
 
Yeah. German tech, wunderwaffen all this....
Not at all, just taking what were real weapons programs IOTL and progressing them logically, your assertion is that the USA's bombers would just be able to overfly Germany and wipe it off the map.
Never mind getting the American people to fund such a force let's go into the logistical problems.
Where are you going to launch your raid from? You have no bases nearby, the UK is now out of the equation.
What is your route of attack? IOTL SAC had many options, over Russia's long artic border or over the NATO states like Norway and Turkey that actually bordered the USSR. Here the target, Germany, is surrounded by vassal states like France, allied states like Italy or conquered territory, no chance of surprise there, your raid would be seen coming hours away.
Your nearest base looking at the map is Iceland, lets assume you launch your bombers from the US. You have spent millions of dollars turning the south eastern corner of Iceland into one big airbase. As your bombers approach you launch your fighters as escort, jet fighters are thirsty beasts, the early ones especially. So you have converted most of your B29s into tankers to get your fighters to Germany.
Your raid now has to fly across the Norwegian Sea, turn right and down the North Sea. Your chances of doing this undetected are virtually zero, any aircraft with mechanical problems has nowhere to go but the ocean.
As you approach the German coast if you haven't already been detected by radar picket ships the radar stations on the outer islands will pick you up, from that moment the mother and father of all air battles will commence.
Day or night raid? Historically the US favoured daylight raids but perhaps you want to do away with the escort fighters and go in at night, that would be one heck of a navigational exercise never mind radar equipped interceptors.
The bombs before the mid fifties would be fission devices, at best 250 kt, more probably in the 50 to 100kt range, city wreckers but not city smashers, you need several to destroy major cities.
And now comes the retaliation, U boats lobbing missiles at the East coast of the US, perhaps nukes, certainly anthrax and nerve agents, you'll sink some of them but these crews will know what you've done to their homeland and will be fanatical in getting their weapons away at you, even if it's a one way trip.
 
It will be interesting to see the beginnings of the Atomic and Space Ages in this TL too and didn't a V-3 rocket was exploded over New York in order to send a message and warning?
 
So, some things to consider about Brazil on this timeline:

The most decisive question is: Did Brazil joined the allies? in OTL we did in mid 1942, the main reason being the german submarine attack on our cargo ships. If yes, most likely Vargas falls and commit suicide. In OTL he was extremely uneasy after joining the allies because he was sure that they would lose the war, on his diary he wrote what semeed a suicide letter declaring that he was a adult and he was ready for everything to come. (Weeks earlier he wrote that the americans were pushing a gun against him to force him to enter on the war), if the allies peace out he probably is couped as OTL and commits suicide turning into a martyr like OTL, but with a smaller cult following. Alternatively he can stay in power as the USA floods Brazil with investiment and equipment proping the regime expecting Brazil to play a role on the future liberation of europe.

If Brazil didn't joined the war, then it is the best case scenario... for us, not for the axis neither the allies. Vargas developed a policy along with his foreign minister called "Pragmatic equidistance", the idea was to negociate with both the allies and the axis and try to get as much wealth possible from both to develop Brazil, and that worked, the largest latim american mining complex, the "Compania Vale do Rio Doce" was a german project that was bought by the americans to basically bribe Brazil into joining the allies, there is also the CSN, the largest latim american steelworks that was also a german investiment that the americans took over and gifted Brazil with, as a state owned enterprise. On a scenario of a continued Brazilian neutrality both sides keep investing in Brazil and Vargas dictatorship can last maybe until the late 40s, he didn't expected to be a dictator for too long exactly because he wanted to save his image for the future, so probably there is some democratization in the late 40s and some Vargas minion like Juscelino runs for presidency and wins, this if of course, Vargas does not run again, as in 1945 the coup happened weeks before the election and he was the favorite.

This was the result:
 

ferdi254

Banned
The last time I looked it up the B36 did not have the range to fligh Boston to Hamburg and back... missing a couple 100 miles

and what fighters could fly Reykjavijk to Bremerhaven and back?
 
Chapter VI: Conclusion of the Pacific War, 1943-1945.
And now the end of the war in the Pacific.


Chapter VI: Conclusion of the Pacific War, 1943-1945.

In much of Europe it was forgotten – and many suffering in Eastern Europe as the Nazis’ horrible masterplan unfolded probably didn’t care – that the Second World War wasn’t over yet. Japan was wounded and on the retreat, but not yet defeated. After being defeated at Guadalcanal, the Japanese launched an offensive into India and counteroffensives in China. With hundreds of thousands of soldiers redeployed from North Africa and the Middle East to India, the British not only repulsed the Japanese offensive but also retook most of Burma and reopened the Burma Road in late 1943. Large amounts of Lend-Lease Aid were subsequently sent to Chiang Kai-shek’s Kuomintang, enabling him to mitigate the effects of Japan’s 1944 offensives.

In 1944, the US also invaded Saipan (part of the Marianas) and seized control of the island despite the fanatical resistance of the Japanese garrison, which resulted in most of the defenders dying in combat in a hellish battle. Japanese commanders saw holding Saipan as imperative and sent nine carriers with 473 planes, five battleships, several cruisers, and 28 destroyers to destroy the US Fifth Fleet (which had fifteen fleet carriers and 956 planes, seven battleships, 28 submarines, and 69 destroyers, as well as several light and heavy cruisers). The Battle of the Philippine Sea was an American victory.

After the disaster at Philippine Sea the Japanese were left with two choices: either to commit their remaining strength in an all-out offensive or to sit by while the Americans occupied the Philippines and cut the sea lanes between Japan and the vital resources from the Dutch East Indies and Malaya. The plan devised by the Japanese was a final attempt to create a decisive battle by utilizing their last remaining strength, which included the firepower of its heavy cruisers and battleships, which was to be all committed against the American beachhead at Leyte. With Japanese codes cracked, forces that were qualitatively superior at this point and a numerical superiority enhanced by US Navy units transferred from the Atlantic, the Battle of Leyte Gulf was an Allied victory that crippled Japanese naval capabilities.

The US expanded their operations in the Philippines and reduced the Japanese presence to pockets. In February the Battle of Iwo Jima followed: The Battle of Iwo Jima (“Operation Detachment”) in February 1945 was one of the bloodiest battles fought by the Americans in the Pacific War. Iwo Jima is a 21 square kilometre island situated halfway between Tokyo and the Marianas. Holland Smith, the commander of the invasion force, aimed to capture the island and prevent its use as an early-warning station against air raids on the Japanese Home Islands, and to use it as an emergency landing field. Lieutenant-General Tadamichi Kuribayashi, the commander of the defence of Iwo Jima, knew that he could not win the battle, but he hoped to make the Americans suffer far more than they could endure. Massive networks of interconnected bunkers and hidden guns survived American bombardment and inflicted appalling losses to the US Marines, but they pressed on against devastating machine gun and artillery fire. Iwo Jima fell in late March.

In the meantime, the British had been very busy building more airfields, small riverports, roads, railroads and bridges in Burma to improve their logistics there in preparation for offensives into Southeast Asia in 1944. Over 1 million troops had arrived in the six months after mid-1943 and the infrastructure needed to supply so many had to be built. 1.5 million British and Commonwealth forces, 250.000 Chinese troops and 50.000 American soldiers now opposed little over 300.000 Japanese troops that still controlled a mountainous sliver of Burmese territory separated from the rest of the country by the Salween River. Outnumbering them 6:1, the Allied success in the offensives that started in January 1944 is hardly surprising: Japanese forces were kicked out of Burma and Thailand turned on its Japanese masters after they saw which way the wind was blowing, declaring war on their erstwhile ally in February 1944. Thailand switching sides quickly cut off Japanese forces in Malaysia from resupply by land, and they weren’t getting much by sea either as British and American submarines increased in numbers vastly after the end of the war in Europe, prowling in the waters of East Asia and Southeast Asia and targeting oil tankers and cargo ships. By the time the monsoon started in June, making further campaigning impossible, the Allies had retaken Malaya and its important rubber plantations and had also made inroads into occupied French Indochina. As part of an agreement between the Free French and Vichy, France formally declared war and sent 15.000 men to fight there.

After the monsoon ended in October, French Indochina fell and the Allies could now aid China militarily directly by launching offensives into southern China. Chiang Kai-shek’s forces now received so many Lend-Lease deliveries they could equip thirty divisions up to American standards with M1 Garand semi-automatic rifles, Browning machine guns, M24 Chaffee light tank and M4 Sherman medium tanks; six Chinese fighter squadrons got P51 Mustangs and three Chinese bomber squadrons were formed with B-25 Mitchell medium bombers. Together, Chinese and Anglo-American forces combed through southern China and had eliminated the Japanese presence by March 1945. In August 1945, the Kuomintang was able to liberate Nanjing. Back in Southeast Asia, the Allies invaded Borneo and Sumatra, upon which the Dutch re-joined the Pacific War.

The largest and bloodiest American battle came at Okinawa, as the US sought airbases for 3.000 B-29 bombers and 240 squadrons of B-17 bombers for the intense bombardment of Japan’s home islands in preparation for a full-scale invasion in late 1945. The Japanese, with 115.000 troops augmented by thousands of civilians on the heavily populated island, did not resist on the beaches – their strategy was to maximize the number of soldier and Marine casualties, and naval losses from Kamikaze attacks. After an intense bombardment the Americans landed on April 1st 1945 and declared victory on June 21st 1945. The supporting naval forces were the targets for 4.000 sorties, many by Kamikaze suicide planes. US losses totalled 38 ships of all types sunk and 368 damaged with 4.900 sailors killed. The Americans suffered 75.000 casualties on the ground; 94% of the Japanese soldiers died along with many civilians. The British Pacific Fleet operated as a separate unit from the American task forces in the Okinawa operation. Its objective was to strike airfields on the chain of islands between Formosa and Okinawa, to prevent the Japanese from reinforcing the defences of Okinawa from that direction.

After experiencing the extreme determination of Japanese defenders on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, US military planners had to assume not only resistance from all available troops the Empire of Japan could muster but also from a fanatically hostile civilian population. They believed Operation Downfall would be the costliest campaign in American military history: In April 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff formally adopted a planning paper giving a range of possible casualties based on experience in both Europe and the Pacific for Operation Olympic (the invasion of Kyushu, the first episode of Downfall). Given a troop list of 766.700 men and a 90-day campaign, the US Sixth Army could be expected to suffer between 514.072 casualties (including 134.556 dead and missing) under the “Pacific Experience” (1.95 dead and missing and 7.45 total casualties/1,000 men/day). This assessment included neither casualties suffered after the 90-day mark (US planners envisioned switching to the tactical defensive by X+120), nor personnel losses at sea from Japanese air attacks. In order to sustain the campaign on Kyushu, planners estimated a replacement stream of 100.000 men per month would be necessary. In the spring of 1945, the Army Service Forces under Lieutenant-General Brehon B. Somervell were working under a figure of “approximately” 720.000 for the projected replacements needed for “dead and evacuated wounded” through December 31st 1946, which was for the whole invasion, including Honshu. These figures are for Army and Army Air Force personnel only, and do not include replacements needed for the Navy and Marine Corps. A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson’s staff by William Shockley estimated that invading Japan would cost 1.7-4 million American casualties, including 400.000-800.000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defence of Japan.

And then something was achieved that vindicated the $2 billion spent ($22 billion in today’s money), rewarding the work of the 130.000 men working on it and made sure the last six years’ time weren’t a waste after all. The first nuclear device ever detonated was an implosion-type bomb at the Trinity test, conducted at New Mexico’s Alamogordo Bombing and Gunnery Range on July 16th 1945. At that point, with a yield equivalent to 20 kilotons of TNT, it was the largest explosion ever produced by man (and no-one could imagine that less than a decade into the future such a bomb was a pipsqueak next to multi megaton weapons). In the San Francisco Conference in July 1945 Eden was informed of this success by President Harry S. Truman (he had succeeded Roosevelt, who had died on Monday June 18th 1945). In the San Francisco Declaration, Japan was threatened with “prompt and utter destruction” unless it surrendered unconditionally. Japan ignored this threat.

Given predictions of appalling losses, Truman decided to postpone the invasion of Japan indefinitely and maintain a naval blockade to starve Japan into submission while obliterating its cities one at a time with nuclear weapons. On August 6th 1945 the Little Boy gun-type uranium based weapon was dropped on Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial centre that was the site of a major military headquarters too. The 15 kiloton explosion tore through the city and killed 20.000 soldiers while estimates of civilian casualties range from 70.000 to 126.000. The Japanese didn’t surrender and in response the US deployed the Fat Man weapon, which was a spherical implosion-type nuclear weapon containing a core of about 6.4 kilograms (14 lbs) of plutonium. Nagasaki – a major military port, one of Japan's largest shipbuilding and repair centres, and an important producer of naval ordnance – was the second target on August 9th and the 21 kiloton explosion caused massive devastation and 39.000-80.000 casualties.

Japan still insisted on a conditional surrender without reparations, without an Allied occupation, no military restrictions and being allowed to keep Korea, Taiwan and possibly Manchukuo. Japan, after all, still held on to these territories and significant parts of China and Southeast Asia. Major Kenji Hatanaka, along with Lieutenant Colonels Masataka Ida, Masahiko Takeshita (the brother-in-law of General Korechika Anami, the Minister of War), Inaba Masao, and Colonel Okitsugu Arao, the Chief of the Military Affairs Section, launched a coup d’état. The conspirators had tried to gain support in the ministry and from several generals, but didn’t get it; they pressed forward nonetheless and got the support from several crucial Imperial Guards divisions through faked orders. In an armoured train, the Emperor and his family were moved to the Matsushiro Underground Imperial Headquarters, a large underground bunker complex under the mountains near Nagano. It included an underground palace fit for the Emperor and it was thought that it could survive a nuclear attack. Hatanaka, the leader of the coup, became Prime Minister.

The Americans responded to Japan’s obstinacy with more nuclear attacks. Two more Fat Man assemblies were sent to Tinian while the scientists at Los Alamos worked around the clock to cast another plutonium core*. The next available core was flown to Tinian on August 19th and the weapon was assembled and ready for use two days later, upon which Kokura, the site of one of the largest ammunitions plants of Japan, was hit on August 21st and heavily damaged by a 20 kiloton blast. On September 5th, a B-29 bomber dropped another atomic bomb (again +- 20 kilotons) on Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminium plants and an oil refinery. In order to demonstrate to the obstinate Japanese junta that he meant business, Truman decided to save up the two bombs that were still being assembled to launch two sorties on one day. On September 21st 1945 a double attack took place. One bomb was dropped on Yokohama, an urban centre for aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries. The second one was dropped on Osaka, a major centre of commerce, a major population centre, and the home of iron works and textile industry. The junta now finally realized the Americans would continue dropping atomic bombs until Japan had either been wiped off the face of the Earth or had surrendered unconditionally. On September 25th Japan announced its unconditional surrender, thus ending the Second World War.



*OTL's Demon Core that killed Harry Daghlian and Louis Slotin in two criticality incidents. Needless to say their OTL deaths are butterflied away.
 
Last edited:
Dam! Truman went hardcore on Japan. This must've sent a clear message to Germany. The West is not weak or timid when it comes to total war.
 
I suspect Japans road to recovery will be much longer ITTL. I also wonder how the US's post war funds will be allocated. Less money to Asia because of continuing European threat?
 
Well here you will see a united Korea, pro-American, and I doubt Mao will take all of China, however given the poor decisions made by the nationalists... I wonder what will happen with Ho Chi Minh, Sukarno/DEI, etc. I expect colonies will last longer, although the Nazis might "support" rebellions, not for any ideological reasons but simply to mess with the other powers.
 
Wow, those bombs did indeed send a Message to Germany.
Dispersal, bunkers, defenses and off course retaliation prospects research must be going into overdrive.
Look forward to hear how those initiatives plays out with two years of calm to prepare until 1945.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Chinese Cvil War. The communists now lack Soviet support and full control of Manchuria (since the USSR never invaded to give them the land), but the Nationalists will probably not get much support from the West either as communism isn't the enemy now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top