The Falcon Cannot Hear: The Second American Civil War 1937-1944

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I'm seeing at least four possibilities:

A: Roosevelt is assassinated before or shortly after Inauguration Day; Garner becomes President and manages to hold the country together for another four years but finally takes a bullet from either the far left or the far right; the new Secretary-of-State-become-president cracks down hard on whoever did it, whoever is suspected of doing it, and anyone he doesn't like; they retaliate and civil war breaks out.

B: Roosevelt manages to make it to 1937 but then is shot by a far-righter; Garner thinks it must be those damned Reds and cracks hard down on them, provoking general unrest, and the country spirals into a Russian Civil War analogue.

C: Roosevelt makes it to 1936, but drops Garner from his ticket in favor of someone further to the left; Garner doesn't like this and coups Roosevelt, managing to successfully depose him. He then declares that Roosevelt has resigned for reasons of health; the public sees through this and protests occur in the streets. A few of them turn violent, and Garner orders in the police to clear the streets. The protestors are cleared but not without a fight, causing casualties among the police forces; Garner declares that due to the unstable situation, he is suspending the 1936 elections until further notice. Mass protests ensue, and Garner orders in the army; eventually, an infantryman sympathising rather more with the protestors thinks, "Enough!" and turns on his commanding officer. Others follow his example, and the army fragments along political lines, the fragments accreting paramilitaries and domestic and foreign volunteers of all stripes, as civil war erupts.

D: Roosevelt drops Garner and Garner coups him as in C, but the coup fails and Garner flees Washington, links up with rightist paramilitaries, and slowly marshals his strength until he can pull a Franco and attempt a second, more successful coup; however, the army and large parts of the population remain opposed to his rule, and they contest it via force of arms, Spanish Civil War style.
 
Question, though - how old was FDR when he was elected the first time? Could health problems make things worse for him?
 
Government (good ol usa)
Communists (the only good commie is... one freeing the people)
Fascists (Hail the silver legion)
Greens (Screw this, maggie grab me my gun, me an the boys are goin huntin)
Confederates (The south shall rise ag...wow so many blacks with guns..)
African American Movement (I have a dream..where you die)
Black (Wooooh Anarchists yeah woooh...ow...ow...stop laughing at me)

The comments just won the thread (the first five pages, at least). :p

Going by the list, perhaps the Fascist could seek common cause with the Neo-Confederates, while the Communists expand their influences into African-American communities and the Anarchists tag along because they'd be butchered if they go it alone? That way we get a three-way civil war.

Marc A
 
I might also add that it is also during the 1920s and 1930s that some of the textile mills in Massachusetts and Rhode Island made a big push to the South, which continued for quite a while - in Rhode Island, the last mills closed in the 1960s. A worse Depression would only accelerate the push South.

Apart from that, another great update. I await with baited breath what the POD would be.

Thanks. There were still some textile mills left in New England though.

Really enjoying this thread. It's an excellent recording so far of our OTL -- can't wait to see the POD.

Subscribed.

Thank you, I'll try to keep it up!

How many factions will they be in the Civil War? Will it just be on on one, or will we have a lot factions. Maybe a Pacific States of America?

Well I can promise at least two factions.:p

No they havnt got any history, i personally want

Government (good ol usa)
Communists (the only good commie is... one freeing the people)
Fascists (Hail the silver legion)
Greens (Screw this, maggie grab me my gun, me an the boys are goin huntin)
Confederates (The south shall rise ag...wow so many blacks with guns..)
African American Movement (I have a dream..where you die)
Black (Wooooh Anarchists yeah woooh...ow...ow...stop laughing at me)

I'm seeing at least four possibilities:

A: Roosevelt is assassinated before or shortly after Inauguration Day; Garner becomes President and manages to hold the country together for another four years but finally takes a bullet from either the far left or the far right; the new Secretary-of-State-become-president cracks down hard on whoever did it, whoever is suspected of doing it, and anyone he doesn't like; they retaliate and civil war breaks out.

B: Roosevelt manages to make it to 1937 but then is shot by a far-righter; Garner thinks it must be those damned Reds and cracks hard down on them, provoking general unrest, and the country spirals into a Russian Civil War analogue.

C: Roosevelt makes it to 1936, but drops Garner from his ticket in favor of someone further to the left; Garner doesn't like this and coups Roosevelt, managing to successfully depose him. He then declares that Roosevelt has resigned for reasons of health; the public sees through this and protests occur in the streets. A few of them turn violent, and Garner orders in the police to clear the streets. The protestors are cleared but not without a fight, causing casualties among the police forces; Garner declares that due to the unstable situation, he is suspending the 1936 elections until further notice. Mass protests ensue, and Garner orders in the army; eventually, an infantryman sympathising rather more with the protestors thinks, "Enough!" and turns on his commanding officer. Others follow his example, and the army fragments along political lines, the fragments accreting paramilitaries and domestic and foreign volunteers of all stripes, as civil war erupts.

D: Roosevelt drops Garner and Garner coups him as in C, but the coup fails and Garner flees Washington, links up with rightist paramilitaries, and slowly marshals his strength until he can pull a Franco and attempt a second, more successful coup; however, the army and large parts of the population remain opposed to his rule, and they contest it via force of arms, Spanish Civil War style.

Question, though - how old was FDR when he was elected the first time? Could health problems make things worse for him?

The comments just won the thread (the first five pages, at least). :p

Going by the list, perhaps the Fascist could seek common cause with the Neo-Confederates, while the Communists expand their influences into African-American communities and the Anarchists tag along because they'd be butchered if they go it alone? That way we get a three-way civil war.

Marc A

Some very nice speculation. Someone has in fact guessed the correct POD, but you'll have to wait for tomorrow's update to see who.:)
 
The comments just won the thread (the first five pages, at least). :p

Going by the list, perhaps the Fascist could seek common cause with the Neo-Confederates, while the Communists expand their influences into African-American communities and the Anarchists tag along because they'd be butchered if they go it alone? That way we get a three-way civil war.

Marc A

In that case, Don Pedro Albizu Campos and the Puerto Rican nationalist movement would have a field day. An independent Puerto Rico as an end result of the Civil War would be very interesting.

Vámonos, borinqueños,
vámonos ya,
que nos espera ansiosa,
ansiosa la libertad.
¡La libertad, la libertad!
¡La libertad, la libertad!
 
Better not let CalBear catch that. :D:D:D

BTW, liking this a lot. May I PM you about some ideas I have for a Second American Civil War which would bring about the world of a TL (more like an anthology, really - it's in my sig ;)) I'm currently working on? :)

Marc A

I just realized I forgot to answer your post.:p

Sure you can PM me, feel free.

In that case, Don Pedro Albizu Campos and the Puerto Rican nationalist movement would have a field day. An independent Puerto Rico as an end result of the Civil War would be very interesting.

Vámonos, borinqueños,
vámonos ya,
que nos espera ansiosa,
ansiosa la libertad.
¡La libertad, la libertad!
¡La libertad, la libertad!

I like this, I didn't know about it.
 

Tovarich

Banned
william-dudley-pelley.jpg

That bird out of 'Laverne & Shirley' has let herself go a bit! :D
 

Tovarich

Banned
Ephraim, may I ask where you read of this poor chap, please?

In New England towns men were treated like serfs, one of them left Manchester, New Hampshire to apply for a job in New Haven, Connecticut, was arrested, brought before a judge, and ordered back to his Manchester factory.

His story sounds fascinating, but however I try rephrasing it and googling I just get your TL on top followed by a load of completely unrelated stuff.

Thanks, if possible.
 
This looks like a really original timeline. :cool:

I'll be reading it soon.

Thanks.:)

Ephraim, may I ask where you read of this poor chap, please?

His story sounds fascinating, but however I try rephrasing it and googling I just get your TL on top followed by a load of completely unrelated stuff.

Thanks, if possible.

Unfortunately I can't help you much. I read about his case in The Glory and the Dream, which is cited at the beginning of this TL. No name is given for the man, the judge, or the man's textile mill. I figured since AH isn't exactly academic, it wouldn't be a problem for me to use the anecdote.

Well, shit. I was hoping the update with the POD would've been posted by the time I got to the end. Looking forward to it.

Tomorrow.;)
 
I like this, I didn't know about it.

Thanks. Any decent history book of Puerto Rico could fill you in on the details that Wiki doesn't cover; for a general overview of how it would fit in with the Caribbean region in general, I highly recommend Oruno D. Lara's Space and History in the Caribbean (the writer himself is a native of Guadeloupe).
 
I thing what makes this so interesting is that so far we are all shocked and horrified...by OTL events so when the POD does occur were in for a shock
 
Excellent TL Ephraim!

Do you have emigration numbers for this time?
The people is leaving USA to get hired in another countries?
 
Farmers and Bankers- 1932-1933

On December 5, 1932 members of Congress were greeted by a crowd of 2,500 men, women, and children on the capitol steps chanting, “Feed the hungry, tax the rich!” Police with gas guns and riot guns broke them up (Glassford had received an early retirement for his pains, the new superintendent was generally unsympathetic). After being detained for 48 hours without food, water, or medical attention the protestors were released. They left singing;

Arise ye prisoners of starvation
Arise, ye wretched of the Earth
For justice thunders condemnation
A better world’s in birth…

1931TacomaMarch.jpg

The Tacoma Unemployed Council marching on City Hall.

The strains of the Internationale were ringing out from the metropolises of America. In New York 35,000 men and women packed Union Square to listen to communist orators. Led by Unemployed Councils crowds broke into groceries and meat markets in Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, and St. Paul. In Lincoln, Nebraska 4,000 men occupied the statehouse, another 5,000 took over Seattle’s ten-story County-City Building, and 5,000 Chicago teachers stormed the city’s banks. In Columbus, Ohio Louis Budenz led a mass march on the Columbus statehouse declaring, “We must take control of the government and establish a workers’ and farmers’ republic.” Governor Floyd B. Olson (Farmer-Labor) began building up his own left-wing army, announcing that he was “taking recruits for the Minnesota National Guard” and he wasn’t “taking anybody who [didn’t] carry a red card.” At the same time the response of the well-fed grew less sympathetic (if it ever had been sympathetic) and more violent. Businessmen formed associations of armed volunteers should the worst happen. Police were more willing to use the nightstick, elected officials more willing to call out troops. Father Coughlin was on the radio and Huey Long had Louisiana tied up neatly with a bow. An uprising either left or right in the cities seemed imminent. But as it was when the revolt began it was in the country.

In conservative, Republican Iowa (Hoover’s home state) the embattled farmers had finally had enough. Under the leadership of one Milo Reno, sunburned men reached for their shotguns and pitchforks and proclaimed a Farmer’s Holiday. All roads leading into Sioux City were blocked by insurgents who refused to allow milk to enter (they were protesting being paid 2 cents for milk that was sold in the city for 8 cents). Sheriffs who tried to intervene were disarmed. One farmer told a reporter from Harper’s, “They say blockading the highway’s illegal. I say, ‘Seems to me there was a tea party in Boston that was illegal to.’” “You can no more stop this movement than you could stop the revolution.” Reno himself said, then felt the need to clarify. “I mean the revolution of 1776.” They farmers didn’t align themselves with communism or radicalism of any stripe, they saw themselves as Americans and revolution as an American tradition.

mp221.jpg

Members of the Farmer's Holiday

Eventually the “uprising” was broken up with minimal force. But lawyers who tried to foreclose on farms found themselves being threatened (or killed) and in private meetings of the Farmer’s Associations men sang;
Let’s call a farmers’ holiday
A holiday let’s hold;
We’ll eat our wheat and ham and eggs
And let them eat their gold.

gdnd_01_img0045

FH men dumping out milk outside of Sioux City, Iowa.

As things were, it looked like the bankers might not even have gold to eat. On St. Valentine’s Day 1933 the national banking system began to collapse. That afternoon Governor William Comstock of Michigan received an urgent telephone request to join a conference of bankers in downtown Detroit. Detroit’s Union Guardian Trust Company was on the verge of going under, and if it failed it would probably take every other bank in the city with it. At midnight Comstock issued a proclamation closing the state’s 550 banks for eight days. He called it a holiday. Just several hours later, while giving an impromptu speech in Miami, Florida an unemployed deranged ex-bricklayer named Giuseppe Zangara, shot President-Elect Franklin Roosevelt in the stomach. The optimistic moderate would die in the early hours of February 16- his last words were, prophetically “I shouldn’t have picked John- now he’s all America has.” Upon being informed that he was to be the next President of the United States, John Nance Garner reportedly turned pale, swallowed, and brushed one hand nervously down his tie. “I shall serve to the best of my ability.” He said, collecting himself. “I must send my condolences to Mrs. Roosevelt.”

images

Giuseppe Zangara in custody.

Meanwhile the banking situation was worsening. Since the Crash the public had been hoarding gold which began vanishing from vaults at a rate of approximately 20 million dollars a day. Those who couldn’t get metal took paper, and so the Treasury found itself expanding the currency even as the gold upon which it was based was disappearing. The rampant extension of credit before the Crash meant that America’s 18,569 banks had about six billion dollars on hand to meet forty-one billion in deposits. Once Michigan banks closed their doors the outflow of gold jumped to 37 million dollars daily; currency withdrawals to 122 million. There were runs on banks everywhere, on the week of February 20 (the day Congress repealed Prohibition) the Baltimore Trust Company paid out 13 million dollars and late Friday night Governor Albert C. Ritchie declared a holiday on Maryland’s 200 banks. The second state had gone under.

a4c2e898da_030509depression01.jpg

Efforts to convince people not to run on banks, like this sign, often backfired.

In Ohio by the night of February 26, as flames gutted the German Reichstag and Japanese troops marched into a Manchurian blizzard, over a hundred banks in a dozen cities announced that withdrawals would be limited to 5% of balances. Similar measures were adopted in Kentucky and in Pennsylvania a bill was passed allowing individual institutions to close at will. J.P. Morgan stated that “the emergency could not be greater.” He was wrong, of course it could. By Wednesday March 1, governors had declared bank holidays in seventeen states. The day before Garner’s unexpected inauguration banks were closed or closing in twenty-one states and 500 million dollars had been drained from the nation’s banking system in the past few days. The day of the inauguration both New York and Illinois, home to the great financial centers of Chicago and New York City announced banking holidays of their own.

bankrun.jpg

Run on the Union Guardian Trust Company of Detroit.

“We are at the end of our rope.” Hoover told the President-Elect (former Vice-President-Elect). “There is nothing more we can do.”

At twelve noon on March 4, 1932 John Nance Garner- a man who had wanted the job but was so unprepared for it that he was sworn in on the Roosevelt family bible because he was unable to deliver the Garner family book on time- became the thirty-second President of the United States.



President John N. Garner of the United States of America.
 
Subscribed. I hadn't pictured the depression being so bad - and we're not at the POD yet :eek:

It was learning how bad it really was that inspired me to write this TL.

Thanks. Any decent history book of Puerto Rico could fill you in on the details that Wiki doesn't cover; for a general overview of how it would fit in with the Caribbean region in general, I highly recommend Oruno D. Lara's Space and History in the Caribbean (the writer himself is a native of Guadeloupe).

Great, I'll be sure to check it out.

I thing what makes this so interesting is that so far we are all shocked and horrified...by OTL events so when the POD does occur were in for a shock

I know, watching everyone's reaction to the Bonus Army being smashed was a lot of fun. So many people thought it was at least partly AH.:p

I really, really believe it's Zangara...

And a good job to everyone who guessed that the POD would be Zangara!:)

Excellent TL Ephraim!

Do you have emigration numbers for this time?
The people is leaving USA to get hired in another countries?

Thank you! I don't have exact numbers, but I can tell you that it spiked considerably so that for the first time in American History there was more emigration than immigration. However given that most other countries were just as badly off, so it wasn't overwhelming.

One of the few hard immigration figures I could find;

In 1929 there were 279,678 immigrants to the US, in 1933 there were only 23,068.

I'm going to be interested to see the geographical divisions of the two sides.

Oh yes, there will be geographic nature to the divisions.
 
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