The F is Out:(A Collaborative Supplement to "American Magic")

[Igeo654]

In the world of @OldNavy1988 's American Magic Timeline, many aspects of Popular Culture have been altered or changed for better and for worse. One of the major changes involves the world of American Pro-Wrestling. A staple of American culture, thanks in no small part to the efforts of Vince McMahon and the World Wrestling Federation in the 1980s. However, in this alternate Timeline, Vince McMahon's dream of "Sports Entertainment", began its end appropriately enough, at Wrestlemania 9 in 1993. By then, thanks to the likes of Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Crush, Tatanka, Yokozuna and the then WWF Champ Bret "Hitman" Hart, The WWF had become a wrestling juggernaut and one of only two televised names in the Biz. The other being a much smaller promotion known as World Championship Wrestling, owned and operated by business mogul Ted Turner. The fates of these two companies seemed to be going towards their natural conclusion, until that spring of 1993.

Taking place in a makeshift, Roman-themed arena known as "Ceasar's Palace", in the parking lot of the casino of the same name, Wrestlemania 9 had been a mostly mediocre, but still passable event, with all the Sports-Entertainment trimmings that McMahon prided himself on. However, where this event diverts from our TL concerns Hogan, Yokozuna and Bret. To put it mildly, personal issues, plus the stress and pressure created by his work had caused Bret to feel a great deal of resentment towards his employer and many of his workmates. This all came to a head when Hulk Hogan, not wanting to be pushed out of the spotlight and "desperately needing" to promote his new movie "Mr. Nanny", convinced Vince to have the championship match end with a Yokozuna victory, only for he, The Hulkster, to walk in and win the belt himself, allowing him to promote his film and be in the spotlight one more time. At first, Vince refused but when Hogan threatened to walk out of the Federation, he gave in. After all, what was he, what was his company, without Hulkamania?

Where this TL diverges is this. Like the infamous Montreal Screwjob of OTL, Bret was never informed about the change in booking and as a result, when the match and the rematch against Hogan played out similar to it did in Out TL, with The Hulkster once again becoming WWF Champ, confusion turned to offense and offense quickly turned to rage. Rather than come into the ring and celebrate with Hogan, Bret's frustrations boiled over and he broke kayfabe, Attacking Hogan, wrecking the announcers' tables and walking out of the WWF, never to return. Less than a year later would see Bret and his brother Owen, who he had convinced to join him as he believed that soon, he too would end up being screwed by the WWF, reuniting with old friends Davey Boy Smith and Jim Neidhart on WCW Television, to create a new Hart Foundation. Together, they became TTL's answer to OTL's New World Order, dominating the WCW through skill and technique as a Heel Stable. In time, other WWF employees would jump ship with them such as Jimmy Hart, Jim Ross and Macho Man Randy Savage who would eventually join the foundation for a time, following his now-famous Slim Jim commercial series.

In the meantime, Changes were coming to both companies. Big ones too. A trip to Japan in a search for ideas for his product, introduced Ted Turner to the realistic, mostly wrestling-based concept of "Puroresu" and the ideas presented to him impressed him so much that he began planning on using this new style in his company, in a product marketed more towards the Teen and Young Adult demographics. By February 1996, "Strong-Style" wrestling would be WCW's selling point going forward into the new millennium. Meanwhile, WWF would find itself promoting Vince Russo, a writer on their payroll, to the very heights of the creative team, giving him free rein to do as he pleased to the product. A man known for his emphasis on Shock Value and so-called "swerves", Russo's creative vision would change the company drastically and sadly, for the worse.

In this Supplementary Thread, Fans of pro wrestling who watch the American Magic thread can discuss the various aspects of the wrestling scene of the AM Timeline, past, present and possibly even future. The effect the new Puro-lite style has on WCW and American pro-wrestling as a whole, the effects of Vince Russo's booking/creative decisions, Interviews, promos, Entrance themes, commentaries, backstage banter, iconic moments and matches, the power plant wrestling school, developmental territories, the fall of the WWF in 1999, the rise of WCW in 1995 and of course, the role that the 3rd big company, ECW, plays in all this as it too, begins it's rise to prominence as the old order falls and a new one rises from the ashes. Everyone is invited to join in so, please enjoy. ^^

(Special thanks to @OldNavy1988 for giving us permission to create this supplement.)​

 

[OldNavy1988]

Great job opening this thread.

For the next update, I'd say we talk about how Vince McMahon beat the steroid rap and maybe have a top 10 of Vince Russo's worst characters and gimmicks.

 

[Igeo654]

Great job opening this thread.

For the next update, I'd say we talk about how Vince McMahon beat the steroid rap and maybe have a top 10 of Vince Russo's worst characters and gimmicks.

I think @kinnikuniverse is more qualified to talk about the roid rap. I'll be happy to talk about gimmicks and characters though.

In the meantime. I'm gonna lay down a few tracks for a few stars, starting with the most deserving.

Entrance theme for Cactus Jack, post 1998 return.

Entrance theme for ''The American Nightmare'' Dustin Rhodes, used first in 1997.

Kurt Angle theme, created in in 1998, first used in 1999.

Current entrance music for Rey Mysterio (Circa 1998)

The Hart Foundation's Entrance music, first used in 1996. Also served as the solo entrance themes for Bret, Jim and Owen prior to his gimmick change in late 1999.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

OOOOOOOHH YEEAAAAHH!!! TIME TO SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!!!

Nah,srsly tho, I'm so excited to do this! Can't wait to share all my ideas!

And igeo, just to tell you, I'm not that familiar with the steroid scandal. ALL I know is that Vince and some wrestlers were caught, that's it. Also, Vince totally used steroids too. No man his age can look beefy like he did in 1999!

As for theme songs, I agree with them... except dustin Rhodes. This is way too creepy for a normal guy who's the son of dusty Rhodes!

But you know what, we can use this theme... as part of an idea I have for him that can catapult him into a star. It won't be until 2002, though.

Also, her are some theme songs of my own:

Ric flair, naturally

​

Vader:

​

Eddie guerrero

Chris Jericho, circa 1999

 

[eldandythedoubter]

OOOOOOOHH YEEAAAAHH!!! TIME TO SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!!!

Nah,srsly tho, I'm so excited to do this! Can't wait to share all my ideas!

And igeo, just to tell you, I'm not that familiar with the steroid scandal. ALL I know is that Vince and some wrestlers were caught, that's it. Also, Vince totally used steroids too. No man his age can look beefy like he did in 1999!

As for theme songs, I agree with them... except dustin Rhodes. This is way too creepy for a normal guy who's the son of dusty Rhodes!

But you know what, we can use this theme... as part of an idea I have for him that can catapult him into a star. It won't be until 2002, though.

To get a good recap of how it was at the time, I recommend listening to Bruce Pritchard's podcast episode 7

http://www.mlwradio.com/something-to-wrestle-with-bruce-prichard.html

 

[Igeo654]

OOOOOOOHH YEEAAAAHH!!! TIME TO SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!!!

Nah,srsly tho, I'm so excited to do this! Can't wait to share all my ideas!

And igeo, just to tell you, I'm not that familiar with the steroid scandal. ALL I know is that Vince and some wrestlers were caught, that's it. Also, Vince totally used steroids too. No man his age can look beefy like he did in 1999!

As for theme songs, I agree with them... except dustin Rhodes. This is way too creepy for a normal guy who's the son of dusty Rhodes!

But you know what, we can use this theme... as part of an idea I have for him that can catapult him into a star. It won't be until 2002, though.

I'm not too familiar with the steroid rap myself. So I'm not sure how that's supposed to be handled at all. Sorry if it seemed like I delegated it to you without consent out of laziness.

Yeah, I figured you might say that but I figured it'd go great with the ''American Nightmare'' nickname. what did you have in mind for him anyway? Here's a new theme for an upcoming talent for 2000.

This one is for Scott Steele, (Val Venus IOTL. Tried finding a theme that was a bit more realistic, but they just sounded generic and boring so I figured if we toned him down to just a ladies man, it could work. He'd make a good wcw midcarder anyway.) I see him coming in by the year 2000.

To get a good recap of how it was at the time, I recommend listening to Bruce Pritchard's podcast episode 7
http://www.mlwradio.com/something-to-wrestle-with-bruce-prichard.html

Maybe I can styill write about the rap after all, and seeing as all of the TTL Russo gimmicks were @kinnikuniverse 's ideas, maybe he can come up with a top 10 list for them. One thing I'd like to see is Kamala as the TV dad character.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Uh, I didn't mention anything about Russo's gimmick, it was oldnavy, who mentioned some of them in his cornette rants.

But ok, if you want, we can come up with some gimmicks of our own!

What I came up with Dustin is an idea I took from the final countdown's brilliant WCW: heart and soul diary on greydog software,which is my main inspiration for strong style WCW and the harts going there instead of Hogan. In that diary, he had Dustin feud with father James Mitchell and his cronies, and Mitchell, at one point, delivered a armor-piercing speech that turned Dustin into this darker, more sinister version of goldust called "the unnatural. The promos that TFC wrote for him are spine-chilling brilliant, and, as of today, the unnatural has become NWA world heavyweight champion in that diary!

I wanted to replicate that into TTL eventually. However, we're still in 1999 technically, so we're far away from that.

 

[Igeo654]

Uh, I didn't mention anything about Russo's gimmick, it was oldnavy, who mentioned some of them in his cornette rants.

But ok, if you want, we can come up with some gimmicks of our own!

Sorry. My mistake. But yeah, let's take Old Navy's gimmicks and maybe add a few of the more infamous and obscure fodder the New Generation had to offer? I'm seeing the Toxic Turtles on the list as WWF Tag Champs. Maybe we can have it so that Russo basically turned Doink into a Juggalo? I can even see him doing a Superhero type character for the fed to cash in on the hero movie craze.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Well, when three count will eventually disband, with shane helms leaving the group in the same manner that Justin Timberlake left NSYNC, maybe WCW can try the superhero gimmick themselves and turn him into the hurricane, with possibly shark boy as his sidekick.

 

[Igeo654]

Well, when three count will eventually disband, with shane helms leaving the group in the same manner that Justin Timberlake left NSYNC, maybe WCW can try the superhero gimmick themselves and turn him into the hurricane, with possibly shark boy as his sidekick.

Seems like a plan. But to make it at least Semi-realistic, Let's stick with the name ''Vertebreaker.'' and give him face paint instead of an actual mask.

(Tell me honestly. Doesn't the chorus sound vaguely ''60s Batman''-esc?)

What I came up with Dustin is an idea I took from the final countdown's brilliant WCW: heart and soul diary on greydog software,which is my main inspiration for strong style WCW and the harts going there instead of Hogan. In that diary, he had Dustin feud with father James Mitchell and his cronies, and Mitchell, at one point, delivered a armor-piercing speech that turned Dustin into this darker, more sinister version of goldust called "the unnatural. The promos that TFC wrote for him are spine-chilling brilliant, and, as of today, the unnatural has become NWA world heavyweight champion in that diary!

I wanted to replicate that into TTL eventually. However, we're still in 1999 technically, so we're far away from that.

Sounds like a nice idea, but the gimmick seems more in tune with Sports entertainment than Strong-Style. My idea for Dustin's ''American Nightmare Gimmick'' basically has him come to the ring in wyatt Family levels of darkness with only a single spotlight on him, wearing the black face paint patterns of one of his Golddust designs, dressed in a black robe, similar to those worn by the wrestlers of the 70s and with contact lenses that make his eyes look perpetually bloodshot. After every win, he basically gives this terrifying joker grin to the camera. Basically my idea of a ''monster'' gimmick in a puro setting. Think Seven, but done right. Maybe we can work out a middle ground between your vision and mine?

Back to Russo though. One thing I know he'd do, besides handing Xanta Claus the Intercontinental title, in hiring an actor to be the WWF Champ for a time, like he did IOTL with David Arquette. And seeing as WWF never lived long enough to be the subject of TTL's Ready to Rumble, it's probably someone else.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Maybe an action movie star? I dunno which one tho. I figured that an action movie star would be the best fit to be a wrestling champion.

As for Dustin, I like your vision of the character! I can imagine the unnatural looking like that. And just to remind you, this is a puro-lite product. Sure, promos and storylines are part of puro, but they are usually more simple, more in line with MMA /boxing/real sports interviews and basic "guy comes out to challenge other guy cause title or HURR DURR, ME WANT BEAT YOU!"

since TTL' s WCW only takes influences from puro, and is not a full fledged puro company outright, they can permit themselves to have a little bit more promos and fantasy than other realistic promotions. After all, you would never see a NJPW show have stone cold come out in a beer truck!

Also, I would think that Russo would be the kind of guy to put subtitles when Ahmed Johnson talks!

 

[Igeo654]

Maybe an action movie star? I dunno which one tho. I figured that an action movie star would be the best fit to be a wrestling champion.

As for Dustin, I like your vision of the character! I can imagine the unnatural looking like that. And just to remind you, this is a puro-lite product. Sure, promos and storylines are part of puro, but they are usually more simple, more in line with MMA /boxing/real sports interviews and basic "guy comes out to challenge other guy cause title or HURR DURR, ME WANT BEAT YOU!"

since TTL' s WCW only takes influences from puro, and is not a full fledged puro company outright, they can permit themselves to have a little bit more promos and fantasy than other realistic promotions. After all, you would never see a NJPW show have stone cold come out in a beer truck!

Also, I would think that Russo would be the kind of guy to put subtitles when Ahmed Johnson talks!

My thoughts exactly. Maybe someone along the lines of Peirce Brosnan?

I see. So it's basically Japanese flair, mixed with the best aspects of American flair. Sort of like an earlier version of the Ruthless Agression era, but with much more technical wrestling. I can dig it. ^^ I'm glad you like my Dustin ideas. I'm sure it'd make Cody very proud of him, and his dad too.

Yeah, no doubt. he's kinda insensitive like that. The thing about that top 10 list is that gimmicks don't nessisarily have to be about characters speciffically.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

WRESTLECRAP PRESENTS:

TOP 10 WORST IDEAS BY VINCE RUSSO

"Vince Russo.

The very name creates a slew of emotions among wrestling fans, most of it negative. Many say he is single-handedly responsible for the death of WWF, which may be a bit much. It cannot be denied however, that Russo is responsible for some of the worst stuff in wrestling in the last decade and a half and that he defends it still on “hey, if you’re talking about it, it worked” just speaks volumes. Yes, he had good ideas and helped push mid-card guys like the Rock and HHH but when let loose without an editor, Russo’s love of “shocking” swerves and wild ideas runs too much out of control and just hurt instead of help his company out. He pushed WWF to their end and you can't deny their tastelessness.

Trying to pick the worst of Russo’s various ideas and creations is a daunting task, not helped by how some stuff attributed to Russo really wasn’t him. Then again, a lot is and it’s shown by how wild it is, often making no sense and the fact Russo has the attention span of a three-year old just makes it worse. His obsession for gimmicks and “breaking the fourth wall” ruins so much of his actually good ideas and when his ideas are bad…well, the results speak for themselves. Here are the 10 worst ideas and creations of Vince Russo and why the man is remembered more for the bad than any good."
​

Alright, guys, come up with your worst shot!

 

[Finn Morgendorffer]

My thoughts exactly. Maybe someone along the lines of Peirce Brosnan?

I can't see Brosnan doing it if he's still Bond ITTL, I doubt the Broccolis would approve it. Perhaps Steven Seagall, Jean Claude, or Charlie Sheen? This would be a perfect time for one of those patented Russo swerves - an action star and their sidekick are booked in some gimmick match for the title, all the smarks are expecting it to go to the action guy - well not all, plenty would still believe even Vince wouldn't sign off on that - but then RUSSO SWERVE! Fooled the smarks again! In this case I'd suggest Rob Schnieder for the sidekick/new WWF champion.

 

[Igeo654]

#10: Tony Atlas as Mr. Alberts.
Once one of the most prominent wrestlers of the 1970s and a former tag team champion alongside his former partner, wrestling legend Rocky Johnson, ''Mr USA'' Tony Atlas would find himself returning to the WWF in 1997, three years following the controversy surrounding Wrestlemania 9 and the exodus of former champion Bret Hart among others. Desiring to take sports entertainment to what he believed to be the next level, Vince McMahon had put Vince Russo, the then head writer and head of the creative department in charge of a number of gimmicks and characters, Atlas' among them. The end result was Russo's love of ''shock tactics'' spawning a thinly veiled parody of the recently murdered comedian and suspected rapist (though nothing has ever been proven to this day) Bill Cosby, specifically, Tony would play a parody of Cosby's beloved sitcom character Cliff Huxtable. In between squashing jobbers and dressed in a series of multicolored sweaters and jogging bottoms, Atlas was made to act like a buffoon in promos, eat Jello Pudding after every victory and would, at times, interrupt the shoots of other superstars by giving them ''heartwarming'' rambling lectures and advice, set to the sappiest music imaginable, before promptly getting the shit beat out of him. Sadly, Atlas would carry this gimmick until the WWF's demise in 1999, which by then had destroyed his legacy as a wrestler for good. An ignominious end to a once legendary performer.

#9: Toxic Turtles as World Tag Team Champions.
Part-time performers in the company, Barry Hardy and partner Duane Gill, pulled double duty at independent promotions as well as the WWF, by dressing up as the ''Toxic Turtles.'' Created at the height of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze, the gimmick, created out of the blue for the two wrestlers, involved them dressing in poorly made, full body costumes made to resemble Raphael and Michaelangelo. Originally meant to be nothing more than a ''two and done'', Vince Russo saw the opportunity to exploit and lampoon the turtles fadand persuaded Vince McMahon to hire them full time. Passible wrestlers but great performers, Gill and Hardy's talents were sadly reduced to speaking in faux surfer accents and lingo, making crude pizza, cheese and pepperoni innuendos, pushing nonexistent but ever increasingly insane products in promos and backstage interviews and showing general buffoonery as they attempted to ''rescue'' backstage interviewer Leilani Kai from their ever invisible archenemies ''The Toe.'' The stupidity of the gimmick went down as well as the debut of Hector Guerrero's ''Gobbledy Gooker'' at Survivor Series in 1990, but was pushed by Russo regardless, until the now infamous Survivor Series 98 where the Turtles would defeat the reigning champs, the cross-dressing ''Gangsta Grannies'' for the belts. A booking choice that, among other things, would see the end of the WWF's tag team division several months later. With this in mind, thank god Russo wasn't working for WCW 'round that period. If he had, we can only guess that he would have handed the cruiserweight title to a midget dressed as a leprechaun!

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Ooof, kicking things off with a bang, I see!

Poor Tony. The Johnson family must be pissed to see their lifelong friend be humiliated like that.

ZEROES IN NO SHELL! RUSSO POWER!

On another note, the 2003 turtles are the best turtles!

Can't wait to delve deeper into the cesspool of insanity that is Russo's mind!

 

[Igeo654]

Can't wait to delve deeper into the cesspool of insanity that is Russo's mind!

Me neither. Still, I'm gonna wait my turn just in case someone else has any ideas. In the meantime, more themes! This time for shows!

Monday Nitro theme, 1995 - 2002

WCW Thunder theme, 1998 - 2003

WCW Saturday Night theme 1997 to 2002.

 

[Igeo654]

I can't see Brosnan doing it if he's still Bond ITTL, I doubt the Broccolis would approve it. Perhaps Steven Seagall, Jean Claude, or Charlie Sheen? This would be a perfect time for one of those patented Russo swerves - an action star and their sidekick are booked in some gimmick match for the title, all the smarks are expecting it to go to the action guy - well not all, plenty would still believe even Vince wouldn't sign off on that - but then RUSSO SWERVE! Fooled the smarks again! In this case I'd suggest Rob Schnieder for the sidekick/new WWF champion.

I vote for Sheen, I'd never subject Van Damme to that kind of humiliation.

 

[Unknown]

Dwayne Johnson (aka the Rock) debuted as a similar type of character--not the Bill Cosby type that Tony Atlas played ITTL but, rather, as Rocky Maivia, "the Blue Chipper." The Blue Chipper was a rather bland babyface (complete with bland music) and the fans really hated him, to the point of chanting "Die! Rocky! Die!" Then, he defeated Hunter Hearst Helmsley for the Intercontinental Title just three months later (which made the fans hate him even more; the fact that he was inexperienced didn't help him at all). Luckily, they realized the Blue Chipper gimmick was flopping, so they turned Rocky heel and had him join the Nation of Domination.

Give credit to Dwayne Johnson; he made the Rock persona believable, as a heel and babyface, and that literally saved his career (BTW, if you're a wannabe wrestler and want to do good promos, watch any of the Rock's promos)...

On a side note, at least Owen Hart will live longer ITTL; he's one of the few wrestlers about whom nobody has an ill thing to say (The Rock even tried to hijack an ambulance and drive him to the hospital) and was a good husband and father...

Hopefully, Austin doesn't get his neck broken ITTL; that was a fluke injury, but it shortened his career...

 

[Igeo654]

Give credit to Dwayne Johnson; he made the Rock persona believable, as a heel and babyface, and that literally saved his career (BTW, if you're a wannabe wrestler and want to do good promos, watch any of the Rock's promos)...

On a side note, at least Owen Hart will live longer ITTL; he's one of the few wrestlers about whom nobody has an ill thing to say (The Rock even tried to hijack an ambulance and drive him to the hospital) and was a good husband and father...

Hopefully, Austin doesn't get his neck broken ITTL; that was a fluke injury, but it shortened his career...

Yeah, ITTL Rocky Maivia is a hell of a lot cooler as a face, but not enough to save the company. And yes, Owen will live as will the Bulldog. He even becomes a better version of HHH's Game gimmick after a face turn in 1999. As for Austin, don't worry. WCW has better health and safety in this TL, so Owen doesn't botch the driver and Austin remain a much more technical wrestler as well as a brawler. And with a very long career.