The Extinguished Fire-A World Without Rome

Hello everybody! My first TL is about a world Without Rome. What if?


By the River Tiber, there once existed a city called Roma. We know very little about this city, but we know it was a monarchy where Kings were elected by the Senate. Lately, we have discovered signs that the city was founded by a man called Romulus. Romulus killed his unnamed brother and became King of Roma. In the year 509 BC, the rightful King of Roma, Tarquinnius Superbus was overthrown by the traitors Lucius Brutus and Lucius Collatinus. Tarquinnius was a Tyrrheni(Etruscan) and allied with the Tyrrheni city-states against Rom. Tarquinnius recaptured Roma and Brutus and Collatinus were executed. However,in 502 BC, Tarquinnius was overthrown a second time. Trying to flee Roma, Tarquinnius was hacked to death. The Tyrrheni destroyed Roma in bitter revenge and the Romans were sold into slavery.

Modern day, history class:
The teacher, Mr Vercingas asks class" What country rules northern Italia?"
Basil answers" The Gathae, sir, a tyrannical monarchy. It was founded in 194 AD after the Ostrogoths Migration."
Vercingas replies"Very good, Basil, but the Gather state itself has only come into being in the last two centuries. Also, what are the countries in Graecia?"
Philippos says" The kingdom of Macedonia, the New Thracian Kingdom, the Ionian Kingdom and the grand democracy of Hellas."
Very good"Vercingas says" It is clear you know your history."

In the 500s BC, the Tyrrheni ruled northern Italia and southern Italia was ruled by Greek colonists. A new, expanding power also existed in the Western Mediterranean, the African city-state of Carthage. In the 300s BC, a Celtic tribe, the Senones invaded Italia. The Senones founded the city of Sena. Then, moving forward swiftly led by theit chief, Brennan, they destroyed the Tyrrheni city of Perusia. This was Tyrrhenia's(etruria) darkest hour. Italia rallied behind the Tyrrheni war drums and Brennan died in the Battle of Verona. The Stones abandoned Senators and migrated North to Gaul. The Tyrrheni formed the League of Tyrrhenia to protect against the Senone menace. War erupted between Tyrrhenia and the Ligurians. In the end, peace was agreed. shortly afterwards, the League disbanded and the Tyrrheni resumed warring with each other.

In the east, Alexander, King of Macedonia created a huge empire stretching from Greece to Egypt and India. Then Alexander died, taking his empire with him. Alexander's generals divided up his empire into three Hellenistic kingdoms, the Antigonids Kingdom of Macedonia which ruled Greece, the Seleucid Empire in the Middle East and the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt, Cyprus and the Aegean.
 
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Zirantun

Banned
Haha, I like this.

It's not really hard to get that rid of the Romans in the early days, since they were one one of the smallest groups in Italy at the time.
 
The Seleucids were initially content with the Near East. However, the Kingdom of Pergamon stripped them off western Asia Minor and the Parthian Empire of Persia and Mesopotamia. The Ptolemies and Seleucids battled for Coele- Syria. The Seleucid victory was assured after victory at Raphia. Antiochus, King of Syria, marched into Alexandria and added the Ptolemaic Empire to the Seleucid realm. Next, Antiochus suppressed the Parthians. Finally, his ambitions focused on Greece. Macedonian King Philip V allied with Antiochus against the Greek states. Together, the two kings crushed the Greeks. Most of Greece became Antiochus', but Thessaly, Epirus and Aetolia went into Philip V's hands.
 
The thing with great men is that their death often creates a hiatus. So was with Antiochus the Great. The Parthians re-asserted their independence from Seleucid domination, as did the Greek states at the manipulations of Philip's son, Perseus. Perseus formed the Hellenic League of Macedonian puppets. The Aetolians were subdued, though only temporarily by Perseus. The Achean League led Macedonian opponents against Perseus, but were crushed. Macedon was restored toits former position in Greece and the states were put in their place.
 
In Carthaginian politics, the Barcid and Hannid factions were bitter rivals on where to expand. The Hannids proposed to expand into West Africa but the Barcids wanted Iberia. War erupted between the Hannids and Barcids. The Barcid leader, Hannibal, was a brilliant general but was crushed at Zama. So, Carthage moved west and south through Africa. Numidian warlord Jugurtha was crushed and Mauretania was annexed. Finally, Numidia was added to Carthaginian lands. The Berner tribes were defeated at the Battle of Avaca and Carthage expanded further south. In time, Carthaginian attentions would drift to Italia.
 
The Greek colonies of Sicily and southern Italia slowly united under Syracusian rule. As time passed, hostility between Carthage and Syeacuse grew. The two sides faced off at Himera. There, the Carthaginians destroyed the Syeacusian force. A Syracusian army invaded North Africa but were crushed at the Battle of Hippo. The road to Syeacuse was open and the Carthaginians went on it. After a further five years of war, Syracuse was destroyed and Magna Graecia became a series of Carthaginian vassals. Carthage went no further into Italia, which was left under the dominion of the Tyrrheni.
 
By now, the Tyrrheni had ruled Italia for centuries. Celtic invaders swooped in fom the north and many Italians joined them against Tyrrheni rule. One by one, the Tyrrheni cities fell. The city of Boiea was formed, named after the leading Boii Celts. The Boii gained central Italy and the locals soon found that Boii rule far surpassed that of the Tyrrheni in harshness.

In Gaul, the Arverni rose to power and their reign came over Gaul. United, the Gauls repulsed German invaders under a chief called Ariovistius, led by their great chief Vercingetorix. Vercingetorix expanded into Italia and the Tyrrheni were again crushed. The Boii submitted to Vercingetorix. His ambition grew and he invaded Magna Graecia, where at the Battle of Tara's he died in a shower of javelins. The Arverni retreated back to Boiea.them, the Arverni empire collapsed without a trace. The Arverni restored rule over most of Gaul but were substantially weakened.
 
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Note: Pyrrhus decided to focus on Macedon but was assassinated by Gonatas' agents and Epirus was later crushed by Macedon.
 
In 123 BC, the Greeks revolted against Antigonid rule. This revolt was called the Corinthian War. Corinth was besieged by the Macedonians and 2 years later was destroyed. The revolt collapsed and the rebels were crushed.

In the 80s BC, Mithridates Eupator of Pontus expanded Pontus, taking Colchis and marrying his son to the King of Cappadocia and his daughter to the King of Armenia. Mithridates conquered Pergamon after crushing the Local Greeks at the Battle of Magnesia. Mithridates faced off against the Seleucids but was crushed in his invasion of Syria. The Seleucids and Pontics battled against after another decade. Mithridates invaded Syria and pushed the Seleucids south, becoming King of Syris. Seleucid King Philip II fled to Egypt and became Pharoah, ruling the former Ptolemaic Empire. After Mithridates' death, the Seleucids regained Syria and were restored to their old power base.
 
Suscribed. Poor little Rome killed before can be something more than a footnote in the history... I like it...
 
Thanks. You may notice that I tend to focus on the Eastern Mediterranean, I can't help it, I'm a big fan of the Diadochi states. Oh, what should happen to the Seleucids?
 
The Seleucids were permanently weakened by Mithridates and the Egyptians split under Pharosh Ahmose. The Seleucids sent their general, Origenes of Palmyra to crush Ahmose. Ahmose faced off with Origenes at Giza. Later, Seleucid King Philip III was sent Origenes' head as 'a present from Egypt'.

After the defeat in Egypt, the Jews strived for their freedom from tyrannical Seleucid rule. The Seleucids turned their forces on Judea and sacked Jerusalem. The Jews fled into exile as Seleucid forces ransacked their lands. Only through sheer brutality did Philip III of Syria prevent the imminent collapse of his empire.
 
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I happened to have started here the same way as you (my TL is in my sig, even though I haven't updated it in a while), with a world without Rome (under several different names at different points; "A World without Rome" (crap), "There but for the Grace of Gods" (crap), "The Appeasement of Ares v.1" (properly wrapped up, not terrible), and "So that others may prosper"(crap)). I have a little advice for you as someone who has done this sort of thing before:
  • Writing. Brief posts that are barely more than a paragraph will not get you much attention no matter how good your writing is or how amazing your ideas are.
  • Butterfly population control/conservation. It seems as if your timeline is progressing with the butterflies far too fast in some areas and in other areas the changes are happening too slow. Ostrogoths in Italy is stretching it, but Hannibal Barca remaining is a bigger stretch (unless it is a totally different person), and Pyruus being assassinated... I would think you would need to justify this a lot.
  • Some events don't totally make sense. Some points along these lines: why are the Etruscans so concerned about the fact that a dictator that happened to be the same ethnicity as them was overthrown? Also as far as I can tell the Seleucids shouldn't really notice that Rome isn't there until the time OTL where the Romans and Seleucids began to go to war (allowing Parthia to rebel successfully starting in 171 BC). Why is it that Syracuse was able to unite Magna Graecia so much easier than OTL, and why did this super-city manage to lose to Carthage after they had undergone a costly civil war? Why were they even fighting given that both Punic factions were trying to expand west not east? How did the Gauls almost invade all of Italy? And how did they do it so fast? (Just a sampling, not a comprehensive list of concerns)
 
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