The Eugenic Wars (book)

FederationX · May 6, 2005

***Minor Spoilers below***

I just finished reading volume two of the Eugenic Wars by Greg Cox. Overall, enjoyable book. However, it now seems to me that the Eugenic Wars wasn't a real war at all. It felt like a series of special forces attacks over the period of about four years. The only fighting seemed to take place in India. Also, it seems that the world was in the dark of Khan's plans and just went on with their lives. So while it was a good book, I was expecting the Eugenic Wars to be an actual conflict all over Earth. What did I miss?

Michael E Johnson · May 6, 2005

FederationX said:
***Minor Spoilers below***

I just finished reading volume two of the Eugenic Wars by Greg Cox. Overall, enjoyable book. However, it now seems to me that the Eugenic Wars wasn't a real war at all. It felt like a series of special forces attacks over the period of about four years. The only fighting seemed to take place in India. Also, it seems that the world was in the dark of Khan's plans and just went on with their lives. So while it was a good book, I was expecting the Eugenic Wars to be an actual conflict all over Earth. What did I miss?

Hey Jon- I really agree with what you are saying about this.I enjoyed the books but was REALLY disappointed that Greg Cox decided to use a Star Trek meets the X-Files route with Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln(ie Assignment Earth) by making the Eugenics War a covert affair.Almost all of canon( read filmed episodes and movies including the most recent Enterprise episodes) references regarding the Eugenics War imply or directly state that it was an overt, worldwide conflict from 1992-1996.I'm hoping that someday someone will write a canon,overt verison of the Eugenics War ( and WW3 for that matter) that so many Trekkers would love to see.

FederationX · May 6, 2005

Hey Michael, I completely agree. They need to write some episodes (with a lot more facts) on both the Eugenics Wars and the Third World War so that it is considered canon in the Star Trek timeline. More details, I say! I thought I was missing something from the book, something like where was all the fighting and destruction? Glad I'm not alone.

Michael E Johnson · May 6, 2005

More and more there seems to be an orchestrated attempt on the part of Star Trek writers -both tv and books-to make the Trek Universe match up with ours-at least until circa 2050's when WW3 happpens.But I think that doing this is really limiting and pretty stupid-if there ever was an ATL its the Trek Universe-everything from many of the mentioned "historical "details of Earth history to the widespread and nearby presence of humanoid alien civilizations in the Milky Way is nothing like our OTL universe.Well-maybe now that Enterprise is ending the book writers will try to expand on the details of known canon events like the Eugenics War , WW3 and the Earth-Romulan War-we can only hope.

FederationX · May 6, 2005

I couldn't agree more. As you said, they trying to catch the Star Trek timeline with ours, which ruins so many of the good stories already written on some cool events, i.e. Eugenics Wars.

I had assumed that if Star Trek: Enterprise wasn't cancelled, we would actually get to see the Earth-Romulan War, which I think took place from 2156-2160. Enterprise was just getting started, I think. Seasons 3 and 4 really made me change my mind about the show.

Michael E Johnson · May 6, 2005

FederationX said:
I had assumed that if Star Trek: Enterprise wasn't cancelled, we would actually get to see the Earth-Romulan War, which I think took place from 2156-2160. Enterprise was just getting started, I think. Seasons 3 and 4 really made me change my mind about the show.

Yeah-If the show had gone 7 seasons-as intended -we would have seen at least the build up to if not the whole Earth- Romulan War as well as the formation of the Federation-now all of that is being crammed into the last 3 episodes

Lets hope that next year-40th anniversary of Star Trek -we at least see another movie (either tv or big screen) and some cool books.

FederationX · May 6, 2005

I always wanted to see a DS9 movie. I'd pay anything to see one, with the orginal cast of course.

Michael E Johnson · May 6, 2005

FederationX said:
I always wanted to see a DS9 movie. I'd pay anything to see one, with the orginal cast of course.

There is a series of books that expands on DS9 (and another with Voyager after they are back on Earth) that are pretty good.There is also a series of books that explains the timeframe between Insurrection and Nemesis and a new series that will deal with Riker and Troi on the Titan.As much as I'd like to see it I'm pretty sure that the next movie wont involve any of the exisitng series characters-it'll possibly involve the Earth - Romulan War or more likely be set in the future-post 24th century. Id rather see another prequel-even without the Enterprise characters. As for the exisiting series we know and love -books are probably all thats left.

FederationX · May 6, 2005

As much as I love the star trek books, their not the same as seeing the charcters on the big screen, in my opinion. Oh well, I suppose. I've heard of a DS9 book that seems to be referred to as the "8th" Season. Do you know which one that is? Also, what the Voyager series called? I must read them, now!

Michael E Johnson · May 6, 2005

FederationX said:
I've heard of a DS9 book that seems to be referred to as the "8th" Season. Do you know which one that is?

Thats the series of books I mentioned.Its an entire series of books-also known as the Relaunch-they have been coming out since 2001.They include some new characters and some previously seen ones like Ensign Ro.They are pretty good all in all.There is also a DS9 book recently released called Hollow Men thats about the immediate aftermath of Sisko's plot to get the Romulans in the Dominion War.

try this link for DS9

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...10082/sr=18-1/ref=sr_18_1/102-8185583-6342514

and for Voyager
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...5410158/sr=5-2/ref=sr_5_2/102-8185583-6342514

FederationX · May 6, 2005

Thank you for the links. I think I'm going to order DS9: Avatar, parts one and two, plus Voyager: Homecoming, since it seems like it it's the first story to take place right after the series ended.

I didn't realize how many Trek novels there were.

Thande · May 6, 2005

Well, the DS9 series of novels set after the series (beginning with Avatar) are of a consistently higher quality than the vast majority of Trek books IMO. Although the Mission: Gamma series drags a bit, there are some interesting ideas in there. (I won't mention specifics owing to spoilers).

As for the Eugenics Wars, my response was basically 'Nice try'.

I thought Cox did brilliantly to get in so many continuity hints and connections, like the way the plastics guy out of ST4 and Shannon O'Donnel out of Voyager were involved in the design of the Botany Bay...classic.

OTOH, his vision of a shady backdoor conflict, though necessary in order for the Wars to happen while we weren't looking, just isn't commensurable with the world war described in "Space Seed". Another nitpick is that Khan names the ship Botany Bay in orbit and then all the screens on the outside supposedly change to read Botany Bay...but in ST2: The Wrath of Khan Chekov finds standardised uniform belts or something in the wreck which already read 'Botany Bay'.

I think they'd do better to conflate it with WW3, shift it to the 2050s, and...um...say they were using Vulcan years in "Space Seed" or something.

Ivan Druzhkov · May 7, 2005

FederationX said:
I didn't realize how many Trek novels there were.

No kidding. I've got about 150+ of the things crammed in some old wine bottle boxes in my closet, as a relic of my early years.

On a general note, I was wondering if the victory of the "Normies" in the Eugenics Wars means that Clinton was one of America's great wartime presidents. After all, he fought it so well, no one knew there was a war on!

Thande · May 7, 2005

Interesting that in Enterprise the Eugenics Wars are vaguely hinted at in a manner which sounds suspiciously reminiscent of the Draka (only a TL where the Draka lost): the Augments are said to have been in control of nations of normal human slaves, and at least part of the war was fought in Africa (albeit North Africa).

Raymann · May 7, 2005

Might have been the start of human racial purity ideas (all of humanity, not just some races). The epp of Enterprise last light, 'Demons' talks a little about Earth history where Colonel Green killed millions of mutated and radiation infected humans to keep future generations mutation free and healthy.

If ya'll look at Fitzpatrick's (the guy who played Robocop) speech from Mars, the symbol of Earth in the Terra Prime emblem is the same as the Earth in the Terran Empire from 'In a Mirror, Darkly'. Just thought that was cool.

Michael E Johnson · May 7, 2005

Thande said:
I think they'd do better to conflate it with WW3, shift it to the 2050s, and...um...say they were using Vulcan years in "Space Seed" or something.

The Enterprise episodes made it CLEAR that the Eugenics War was in the late 1990's-mainly through a throw away line by Dr Phlox that" the Augments were great work for technology from over 150 years ago" ie 2150's minus 150+ years equals 1992-1996- a timeframe which is clearly seperate from WW3 which was circa 2053.

Also between Archers comments about his grandfather fighting in North Africa and the descriptions of the War in the 3 Augments episodes-and Space Seed and Wrath of Khan-The Eugenics War was overt not covert.

Michael E Johnson · May 7, 2005

FederationX said:
I didn't realize how many Trek novels there were.

Wow Jon -I cant believe I forgot this but If you want a Star Trek book that touches on the Eugenics War and WW3-in a much better fashion than First Contact does in my opinion-then you have to read the novel Federation (if you havent already).
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...6/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2802505-7876063

Michael E Johnson · May 7, 2005

Ivan Druzhkov said:
On a general note, I was wondering if the victory of the "Normies" in the Eugenics Wars!

Thats normals as per The Wrath of Khan novelization and borrowed in my Eugenics War TL.

Ivan Druzhkov said:
means that Clinton was one of America's great wartime presidents.

And yes Bill Clinton was a great American president although he barely survived the election of 1996 because Republicans savaged him for not doing more to prevent the Khanates attack on American soil at San Diego despite the June 1994 memo that made it clear that the Khanate intended to strike in the US-wait wrong TL

Ivan Druzhkov said:
After all, he fought it so well, no one knew there was a war on!!

The Cox books were good-but the Eugenics War was overt-at least according to almost all Star Trek canon info -including the most recent Enterprise episodes and even the other Star Trek book that Cox references in his books (ie Debtors Planet)

Thande · May 7, 2005

'Federation' had advantages over the account of 'First Contact' in that:

1) It was consistent with the Animated series (first warp ship the Bonaventure, not Phoenix!)

2) Cochrane's character was not presented as totally different to that seen in 'Metamorphosis'.

3) Many more continuity nods

4) We got to see the TOS and TNG crews working together (well, sorta)

5) Romulan-Ferengi-fake Borg conspiracy! Can't beat that.

6) RAMMING SPEED! Long before the filmmakers caught up with that ridiculous end to Nemesis

7) The Optimum Movement struck me as a realistic and frightening totalitarian group. In particular the Optimum Republic of Great Britain...brr. And Thorsen made a great villain, especially after being Grigari'd.

Raymann · May 7, 2005

I haven't read 'Federation' in years, I really need to again even though it far from canon now.

Ever since 'the fallen' for DS9 came out and the 'Millinium' series, I've always wanted to see the Grigari. Maybe they can be brough up in the DS9 Relaunch novels?