The Esch Cummins Act: US Railroad Consolidation program

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Andrew Boyd, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    The next post in my final TL is going to focus on FDR's death being butterflied.

    Any ideas?

    I ask because I can still see Truman being president at least until 1948.
     
  2. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    I need help with some ideas for railroads I can make fallen flags ITTL. Any ideas are welcome.

    The ones I'm sure about

    Norfolk & Western
    Absorbed into the Pennsylvania in 1968.

    Richmond, Fredricksburg, & Potomac
    Absorbed into the Pennsylvania in 1967.

    New York, New Haven, & Hartford (New Haven)
    Bankrupt in 1968. Absorbed into the Pennsylvania in 1970.

    Maine Central
    Absorbed into the Boston & Maine in 1967.

    Bangor & Aroostook
    Absorbed into the Boston & Maine in 1980.

    Rutland
    Absorbed into the Boston & Maine in 1962.

    Delaware & Hudson
    Absorbed into the Boston & Maine in 1982.

    Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy (Burlington Route)
    Merged into Burlington Northern in 1970.

    Great Northern
    Merged into Burlington Northern in 1970.

    Northern Pacific
    Merged into Burlington Northern in 1970.

    Spokane, Portland, & Seattle
    Merged into Burlington Northern in 1970.

    Colorado & Southern
    Merged into Burlington Northern in 1970. Later split at Pueblo, CO with the Southern half going to the D&RGW.

    Western Pacific
    Absorbed into the D&RGW in 1982.

    St. Louis-San Fransisco (Frisco)
    Absorbed into the Aitchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe in 1978.

    Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific (Rock Island)
    Makes plans to merge with Southern Pacific in 1960s. Completed in 1975.

    Central of Georgia
    Absorbed into the Illinois Central in 1961.

    Nashville, Chattanooga, & St. Louis
    Absorbed into the Louisville & Nashville in 1957. With contract letting IC and SOU use certain parts.

    Chicago & Eastern Illinois
    Absorbed into the Louisville & Nashville in 1963.

    Chicago Great Western
    Absorbed into Missouri Pacific in 1965.

    Pere Marquette

    Absorbed into the Chesapeake & Ohio in 1951.

    New York, Chicago, & St. Louis (Nickel Plate)
    Absorbed into the Chesapeake & Ohio in 1960.

    Erie Lackawanna
    Absorbed into the Chesapeake & Ohio in 1974.

    New York, Ontario, & Western
    Absorbed in New Haven in 1948 with new line to Buffalo. Eventually sold to CN when New Haven falls in 1968.
     
  3. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    @TheMann

    I should of said this long ago, but I especially like your idea of Japanese diesels.

    I was thinking since I plan to have the DRGW get both the WP and southern half of the C&S, they could run up to 50 of the DF200s on the Ft. Worth - Amarillo - Pueblo - Salt Lake City - Oakland freight line.

    My TL's ACL/L&N, C&O, SP, and Southern would also likely want to try them.
     
  4. Confederate Liberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    @AndrewBoyd

    The Norfolk Franklin and Danville absorbed into the Pennsylvania sometime in the late 1960's (the N&W owned most of it.)
     
  5. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    @TheMann

    Where are your challenger and chaser passenger cars used? The east?
     
  6. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    Another thing since my railroad TL hasn't reached the 70s yet.

    I honestly don't see how trying to avoid Amtrak is ASB. If the government begins subsidizing the railroads, or forces airlines to build their own airports.
     
  7. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    Anyone else heard of the BrightLine trains in Florida?
     
  8. Confederate Liberal Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Virginia
  9. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    I asked because I'm not entirely convinced a way to help passenger rail is as borderline ASB as some have said.

    Perhaps mandating governments to support the railroads. And sure the HSR may need government help so it an get their own ROWs. But even then we can try the Steel Interstate to let HSR, freight, and commuter trains share lines.
     
  10. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    Who here is ready for the day Big Boy 4-14 comes out running again?
     
  11. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Since I'm going to be using many of the rolling stock ideas for my hypothetical Amtrak either way, I feel I should say this:

    I'm not convinced butterflying Amtrak per se is ASB. Mainly because of the recent success of the Virgin Trains USA in Florida.

    That said, I can see the railroads being heavily subsidized. As well as strong partnerships with various airliners, (One idea of mine is ATSF+NYC+PanAm).

    For instance, government support for the rail lines to build a new Chicago Station that is part of the complex that is O'Hare or Midway.
     
    Confederate Liberal likes this.
  12. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

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    Feb 23, 2018
    Any thoughts on my recent post @TheMann?

    I ask because I know you mentioned a few state-run networks being possible candidate for privately run operations.
     
  13. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    I sincerely need help deciding on what to do with railroads and passengers in my TL.

    You see, I am not convinced that butterflying Amtrak as it is IOTL is completely ASB. Which is why I am at least having improved rail subsidies from the government come the Eisenhower era.

    I can also see some railroads collaborating with the airways to create new intermodal facilities.

    That said, HSR would likely require the collaboration of several freight roads and local governments. But I think for long-distance trains, we could very well see iconic trains like the ATSF's Super Chief and UP's City of Los Angeles duke it out for at least a few more years.
     
  14. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    If anyone has any ideas, here are my ideas for all the interstate passenger carriers by the 2019 of my TL.

    Amtrak
    Formed mainly as a way to let the freight railroads bail out of the struggling passenger services. This machine was initially rather weak. But as President Ronald Reagan gained a more lenient view towards it in 1982, things have since improved. Today, it runs most of the HSR networks in the eastern half of the nation. Though today it also runs several popular long-distance trains. Sometimes even in accordance with the railroads listed below.

    Santa Fe
    Even in spite of the Amtrak collaborations (namely the Triniad-Phoenix portion of the City of Los Angeles), Santa Fe still runs their own trains. Not only because of tradition, but because the Super Chief has since regained a proud status, not to mention that it is still an American cultural icon. In addition, many other venues in the hospitality business are still owned by Santa Fe. Including the Harvey Houses and other hotel venues, which have since expanded to even include water parks in some places.

    Southern Pacific
    This railroad is notable in that it is the only completely private HSR line in the US. That said, not without government subsidies. They run passenger trains all across the state of California as far as Phoenix and Las Vegas. It's seldom a problem since the train is used by most people for work and day trips.

    Southern
    In addition to the Washington DC-New Orleans Crescent, the Southern runs many iconic steam excursion trains. Mainly behind 2-8-2 #4501, 4-8-4 #2609, 4-8-2 #2461, and 4-6-2 #1401. Both of which are painted in the Southern's Crescent Green.

    New York Central
    Despite Amtrak serving many of the same areas, the NYC still runs profitable New York - Chicago services. Mainly because they have begun to actively collaborate with the Santa Fe to make complete NY-LA services that combine the Lake Shore Limited and ATSF's Super Chief.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  15. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Some more pop culture stuff:

    Misc. Quotes from the universe of Light at the End of the Tunnel

    "The reason Santa Fe still operates passenger trains is because we frankly believe there is a place for it on our system. After all, we still are heavily involved in the hotel businesses. As you can see when with the success of the Harvey Houses and all the things like water parks since then."
    -
    Warren Buffett explains why the Aitchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railroad still runs passenger trains; 2012

    "When he [Walt Disney] first appointed me as the head of our animation department in '74, he told me that had he ever decided to making his own film again, he would have made Beauty and the Beast. That was still fresh on my mind for the first few days after The Secret of NIMH was completed, so I decided to try and have my own go at it. But of course, I had the same problems with the middle act that Walt did. Which is why I eventually handed off the project to Kirk Wise."
    -
    Don Bluth in an interview prior to the 25th Anniversary Theatrical Re-release of Beauty and the Beast; 2016

    "At first, I thought of going for a Mickey Mouse like voice. But they did not like that so much, so I instead broke out into my best voice for Bugs Bunny. 'Eh, what's up doc? It's me, Mario. Bowser's a maroon!' I went on like that until they ran out of tape, then they called me the next day and I had the job."
    -
    Charles Martinet recalling how he was cast as the voice of Mario

    "After a while, the team thought of making the game as a platform like what Killer Instinct's team was doing with Conker. We even got as far as having Banjo be the main character. But then some blokes suggested we try making a game that was a love letter to Disney films from that time, specifically The Little Mermaid. So we put back Edison, had Banjo as one of his partners, and everything else went back to how it was."
    "Until you gave Banjo a spin-off on the Playstation."
    "Right. Then when the game came out, it's basically what saved the swashbuckler fiction genre from death after Cutthroat Island."
    -
    Grant Kirkhope's appearance on Guest Grumps; 2013

    "The original idea - Chris Savino's idea - was to make a TV version of Banjo-Kazooie, and put it in the same universe as the Mario show that was on the Disney Channel at the time. But Rare said they'd only allow it if it were the rest of the 'Edison and the Dreamlanders' cast was there."
    -
    Craig McCracken explaining the origins of Wander Over Yonder; 2015
     
  16. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Misc. Quotes from the universe of Light at the End of the Tunnel

    "The reason Santa Fe still operates passenger trains is because we frankly believe there is a place for it on our system. After all, we still are heavily involved in the hotel businesses. As you can see when with the success of the Harvey Houses and all the things like water parks since then."
    -
    Warren Buffett explains why the Aitchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railroad still runs passenger trains; 2012

    "When he [Walt Disney] first appointed me as the head of our animation department in '74, he told me that had he ever decided to making his own film again, he would have made Beauty and the Beast. That was still fresh on my mind for the first few days after The Secret of NIMH was completed, so I decided to try and have my own go at it. But of course, I had the same problems with the middle act that Walt did. Which is why I eventually handed off the project to Kirk Wise."
    -
    Don Bluth in an interview prior to the 25th Anniversary Theatrical Re-release of Beauty and the Beast; 2016

    "At first, I thought of going for a Mickey Mouse like voice. But they did not like that so much, so I instead broke out into my best voice for Bugs Bunny. 'Eh, what's up doc? It's me, Mario. Bowser's a maroon!' I went on like that until they ran out of tape, then they called me the next day and I had the job."
    -
    Charles Martinet recalling how he was cast as the voice of Mario

    "After a while, the team thought of making the game as a platform like what Killer Instinct's team was doing with Conker. We even got as far as having Banjo be the main character. But then some blokes suggested we try making a game that was a love letter to Disney films from that time, specifically The Little Mermaid. So we put back Edison, had Banjo as one of his partners, and everything else went back to how it was."
    "Until you gave Banjo a spin-off on the Playstation."
    "Right. Then when the game came out, it's basically what saved the swashbuckler fiction genre from death after Cutthroat Island."
    -
    Grant Kirkhope's appearance on Guest Grumps; 2013

    "The original idea - Chris Savino's idea - was to make a TV version of Banjo-Kazooie, and put it in the same universe as the Mario show that was on the Disney Channel at the time. But Rare said they'd only allow it if it were the rest of the 'Edison and the Dreamlanders' cast was there."
    -
    Craig McCracken explaining the origins of Wander Over Yonder; 2015
     
  17. Confederate Liberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    I'd add the Southern to non Amtrak they held out for quit awhile before letting go of passengers service
     
  18. Confederate Liberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    Also the Southern could merge with the Virginian giving it one of the best West Virginia coal routs on the eastern seaboard
     
  19. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Maybe...
     
  20. Andrew Boyd Autistic, but Artistic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2018
    Also, is it advisable to have flashback posts in my final TL?

    I ask because I wanted to save the original Jupiter and 199, albeit in completely rebuilt forms.