Here's who I paln to have the railroads be by 1990 in my TL. Provide comment where you think improvement could happen.

Boston & Maine:
Bangor & Aroostook; Delaware & Hudson; Maine Central

New York, New Haven & Hartford: Lehigh & Hudson River; New York, Ontario & Western

New York Central: Rutland; Virginian

Pennsylvania: Long Island; Norfolk & Western; 50% of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line; Toledo, Peoria & Western (east of Peoria); 50% of the Winston-Salem Southbound

Baltimore & Ohio: Buffalo & Susquehanna; Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh; Central Railroad of New Jersey; Chicago & Alton; Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville (North of Monon, IN); Delaware, Lackawanna & Western; Detroit & Toledo Shore Line; Lehigh & New England; Reading; 50% of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line

Chesapeake & Ohio: Bessemer & Lake Erie; Chicago & Illinois Midland; Chicago, Attica & Southern; Detroit & Mackinac; Hocking Valley; Lehigh Valley; New York, Chicago & St. Louis; Pere Marquette; Wheeling & Lake Erie

Wabash & Erie: Akron, Canton & Youngstown; Ann Arbor; Detroit, Toledo & Ironton; Erie; Pittsburgh & Shawmut; Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern; Wabash;

Western Maryland: Pittsburgh & West Virginia

Atlantic Coast Line: Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast; Chicago & Eastern Illinois; Clinchfield; Georgia Route; Gulf, Mobile & Northern; Louisville & Nashville; Mississippi Central; New Orleans Great Northern; 50% of the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac; 50% of the Winston-Salem Southbound; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis

Southern: Chicago, Terre Hautte, and Southeastern; Columbus & Greenville; Florida East Coast; Mobile & Ohio; Norfolk Southern; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis; Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville (south of Monon, IN); Tennessee Central (East of Nashville)

Illinois Central: Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay; Central of Georgia; Seaboard Air Line; 50% of the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis; Tennessee Central (West of Nashville)

Burlington Northern: Chicago, Burlington & Quincy; Colorado & Southern (North of Trinidad, CO); Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic; Great Northern; Minneapolis & St. Louis; Northern Pacific; Spokane, Portland & Seattle

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific: Butte, Anaconda & Pacific; Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range; Escanaba & Lake Superior

Union Pacific:
50% of the Central Pacific; Chicago & North Western; Kansas City Southern; Lake Superior & Ishpeming; Litchfield & Madison; Louisiana & Arkansas; Missouri-Kansas-Texas

Missouri Pacific: Chicago & Alton; Chicago Great Western; Green Bay & Western; Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka; Texas & Pacific;

Denver & Rio Grande Western: Colorado & Southern (South of Trinidad, CO); Denver & Salt Lake; Fort Smith & Western; Fort Worth & Denver; Western Pacific; 50% of the Trinity & Brazo Valley

Southern Pacific: 50% of the Central Pacific; Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific; St. Louis Southwestern; 50% of the Trinity & Brazo Valley

Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe: Minnesapolis & St. Louis; Kansas City, Mexico & Orient; Meridian & Bigbee; Midland Valley; Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern; Missouri & North Arkansas; St. Louis-San Francisco; Toledo, Peoria & Western (west of Peoria); Wabash (Aida, IA to La Plata, MO)

Canadian National: Central Vermont; Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific; Grand Trunk; Grand Trunk Western

Canadian Pacific: Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic; Minneapolis, St. Paul & Sault Ste. Marie; Spokane International; Wisconsin Central
 
Last edited:
Here's who I paln to have the railroads be by 1990 in my TL. Provide comment where you think improvement could happen.

Boston & Maine:
Bangor & Aroostook; Delaware & Hudson; Maine Central

New York, New Haven & Hartford: Lehigh & Hudson River; New York, Ontario & Western

New York Central: Rutland; Virginian

Pennsylvania: Long Island; Norfolk & Western; 50% of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line; Toledo, Peoria & Western (east of Peoria); 50% of the Winston-Salem Southbound

Baltimore & Ohio: Buffalo & Susquehanna; Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh; Central Railroad of New Jersey; Chicago & Alton; Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville (North of Monon, IN); Delaware, Lackawanna & Western; Detroit & Toledo Shore Line; Lehigh & New England; Reading; 50% of the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line

Chesapeake & Ohio: Bessemer & Lake Erie; Chicago & Illinois Midland; Chicago, Attica & Southern; Detroit & Mackinac; Hocking Valley; Lehigh Valley; New York, Chicago & St. Louis; Pere Marquette; Wheeling & Lake Erie

Wabash & Erie: Akron, Canton & Youngstown; Ann Arbor; Detroit, Toledo & Ironton; Erie; Pittsburgh & Shawmut; Pittsburgh, Shawmut & Northern; Wabash;

Western Maryland: Pittsburgh & West Virginia

Atlantic Coast Line: Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast; Chicago & Eastern Illinois; Clinchfield; Georgia Route; Gulf, Mobile & Northern; Louisville & Nashville; Mississippi Central; New Orleans Great Northern; 50% of the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac; 50% of the Winston-Salem Southbound; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis

Southern: Chicago, Terre Hautte, and Southeastern; Columbus & Greenville; Florida East Coast; Mobile & Ohio; Norfolk Southern; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis; Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville (south of Monon, IN); Tennessee Central (East of Nashville)

Illinois Central: Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay; Central of Georgia; Seaboard Air Line; 50% of the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac; 33% of the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis; Tennessee Central (West of Nashville)

Burlington Northern: Chicago, Burlington & Quincy; Colorado & Southern (North of Trinidad, CO); Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic; Great Northern; Minneapolis & St. Louis; Northern Pacific; Spokane, Portland & Seattle

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific: Butte, Anaconda & Pacific; Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range; Escanaba & Lake Superior

Union Pacific:
50% of the Central Pacific; Chicago & North Western; Kansas City Southern; Lake Superior & Ishpeming; Litchfield & Madison; Louisiana & Arkansas; Missouri-Kansas-Texas

Missouri Pacific: Chicago & Alton; Chicago Great Western; Green Bay & Western; Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka; Texas & Pacific;

Denver & Rio Grande Western: Colorado & Southern (South of Trinidad, CO); Denver & Salt Lake; Fort Smith & Western; Fort Worth & Denver; Western Pacific; 50% of the Trinity & Brazo Valley

Southern Pacific: 50% of the Central Pacific; Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific; St. Louis Southwestern; 50% of the Trinity & Brazo Valley

Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe: Minnesapolis & St. Louis; Kansas City, Mexico & Orient; Meridian & Bigbee; Midland Valley; Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern; Missouri & North Arkansas; St. Louis-San Francisco; Toledo, Peoria & Western (west of Peoria); Wabash (Aida, IA to La Plata, MO)

Canadian National: Central Vermont; Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific; Grand Trunk; Grand Trunk Western

Canadian Pacific: Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic; Minneapolis, St. Paul & Sault Ste. Marie; Spokane International; Wisconsin Central

Does anyone here have the knowledge to convert this into a map? It would make this a lot easier to understand.
 
I can't see the New Haven having much of a chance at survival, it was far too reliant on local services that are surely going to drop off dramatically after WWII, and the addition of two small roads that also failed in dramatic fashion isn't gonna help much. Likewise, your Western Maryland is now surrounded by the NYC, Pennsy, C&O and B&O.

You'd be better off IMO merging both the New Haven and Western Maryland with the Wabash and Erie as its northern and southern division(s) and selling off excess lines. The WM can be the Pittsburgh-Baltimore main of the Wabash and Erie, while the New Haven would be the New England Division of the same company. That way, they get to be part of a much bigger firm not surrounded by its competitors.

I'm liking most of the rest, though I'm still not entirely convinced the Illinois Central - Seaboard Air Line combination is gonna work, even if the presence of the Central of Georgia means they do physically connect to each other. I'd be more inclined to keep the SAL independent, giving them the NC&STL and the Southern's half of the Tennessee Central as extensions into new markets. The SAL effectively was a traffic conduit from the Northeast to Florida and Alabama, and they could - and did IOTL - make a good living at that despite the ACL and Southern's presence.
 
I can't see the New Haven having much of a chance at survival, it was far too reliant on local services that are surely going to drop off dramatically after WWII, and the addition of two small roads that also failed in dramatic fashion isn't gonna help much. Likewise, your Western Maryland is now surrounded by the NYC, Pennsy, C&O and B&O.

You'd be better off IMO merging both the New Haven and Western Maryland with the Wabash and Erie as its northern and southern division(s) and selling off excess lines. The WM can be the Pittsburgh-Baltimore main of the Wabash and Erie, while the New Haven would be the New England Division of the same company. That way, they get to be part of a much bigger firm not surrounded by its competitors.

Good point, I probably am going to have the Wabash & Erie and their takeover of the WM after the Steam era. My plan is to at least have that happen after the WM becomes a freight-only line, which is before they abandon steam ITTL. (Here, eastern roads are still slower at abandoning steam than western ones that weren't Union Pacific).

The NH however is something I think may work better with the PRR. For starters, it lets them get into Boston like the NYC does. We could just sell off the L&HR, and I also have some ideas for the NYO&W which involves the possibilities of...
  • Their Scranton yards becoming TTL's Steamtown.
  • Other parts becoming shortlines or parts of other railroads.
Better still, it even puts the original NEC mainline into one management. That is once the PRR, with the ACL/IC builds the semi-independent RF&P to Norfolk.

I'm still not entirely convinced the Illinois Central - Seaboard Air Line combination is gonna work, even if the presence of the Central of Georgia means they do physically connect to each other. I'd be more inclined to keep the SAL independent, giving them the NC&STL and the Southern's half of the Tennessee Central as extensions into new markets. The SAL effectively was a traffic conduit from the Northeast to Florida and Alabama, and they could - and did IOTL - make a good living at that despite the ACL and Southern's presence.
The SAL would still likely play that role as a conduit. As far as I know, it's just that that big difference now is that the IC now gets markets further southeast.

I'm liking most of the rest,
Any particular favorites?
(Mine are PRR+N&W, SP+RI, and ATSF+SLSF)
 
Here are some details on the Nintendo-Sony Consoles since they team up ITTL. In order to avoid borrowing two much from the famous Player Two Start (beyond possibly some games depending on how much their creators are willing to contribute to TTL), I'll usually go with just the basics in the final TL then detail them more in other threads.

Here are some basics...

Super Nintendo CD
Produced: 1993-1999
Famous Titles: Super Mario World 2 and 3, The Legend of Zelda: The Dream Temple, Donkey Kong Country Trilogy, Tale of the Seven Seas,

Nintendo Playstation
Produced: 1997-2004
Famous Titles: Super Mario Ultra Duology, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time & Majora's Mask, The Dreamers, Conker the Squirrel, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Mario Kart Ultra

Nintendo Leviathan
Produced: 2002-2009
Famous Titles: Super Mario Inc, The Legend of Zelda: The Mystery of Keaton & Twilight Princess, Pikmin, Mario Kart: Double Dash!, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

Nintendo Warship
Produced: 2007-2014
Famous Titles: Super Mario Galaxy 1, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword,

Any other ideas are welcome. I am just putting it out there. @Beta.003 may also want to contribute to the greater TL.
 
I forgot to mention...
There is one final note on this whole issue, and that would be about what would happen with the railroads that were in US territories such as Alaska, Hawaii and Porto Rico under this plan. In general, they would come under the control of the US Government. Lines like the Alaska Railway, Oahu Railway and the American Railroad Company of Porto Rico would be controlled by the government and would have smaller rail lines that connected with them consolidated into their networks. Exceptions to this would be mining and plantation railways that were privately owned and operated specifically for their business.
 
I forgot to mention...
There is one final note on this whole issue, and that would be about what would happen with the railroads that were in US territories such as Alaska, Hawaii and Porto Rico under this plan. In general, they would come under the control of the US Government. Lines like the Alaska Railway, Oahu Railway and the American Railroad Company of Porto Rico would be controlled by the government and would have smaller rail lines that connected with them consolidated into their networks. Exceptions to this would be mining and plantation railways that were privately owned and operated specifically for their business.

An Interurban ring around Puerto Rico would be a great addition to the Alternative Railways thread...
 
Here is an excerpt from a plan I have for one of the TL's characters: Disney Animator Henry Banks. This is mostly based on the ideas of @OldNavy1988.

August 15, 1987

Henry Banks did not know what to think about recent events. One one hand, he was feeling content; he had recently taken Walt and some of the Nine Old Men (namely Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston, and Ward Kimball) to Cincinnati for the 1987 NRHS Convention. Where they had enjoyed themselves and praised his work in front of his family and school football team. That day he was putting on his desk a photo of N&W Class A 2-6-6-4 #1218 on a short coal train passing a pair of PRR ALCO Millenium 190DPs on a mixed freight at Christiansburg; as the former went to haul an excursion on the Southern. But on the other hand, security on the Disney lot was heightened during Disney's next big production, The Land Before Time. This was since Judith Barsi, the voice of Ducky, had been removed from her home by Los Angeles Child Protective Services citing repeated incidents of physical abuse. Judith and her mother had taken temporary residence on the Disney lot, where Judith also resumed school via studio tutor.

However, on that day, Judith's father Jozsef somehow breached studio security and killed a security guard at the front gate, two FBI agents and one Burbank police officer trying to help said guard arrest Jozsef. Judith and her mother Maria barricaded themselves under the desk of animator Andreas Deja while the bullets flew wildly outside the Animation Building. When Henry realized what was going on, he immediately took action. First, Henry got out a steak knife he bought with him for his lunch, planning to use it if Jozsef tried to shoot him. Or if he succeeded in tackling Josef, use it to help him take the mad-man's fire-arm.

As he was facing Jozsef from behind, he was able to sneak up and tackle him. Jozsef tried to use the handle of his gun to break Henry's arms, and while that didn't completely work it did severely bruise him. Eventually, Henry slashed at the arm Jozsef was carrying the gun in. At first, Henry planned to take it and use the handle to knock Jozsef out cold at least long enough for the authorities to arrest him. But as they came, Jozsef had other ideas for himself; he put the barrel up to his head, and Deja recoiled in horror while Henry ran over to cover young Judith's eyes from what he knew was about to come...

Later that evening, President Ronald Reagan offered his heartfelt condolences to the fallen officers' families in an address from the Oval Office. Condolences were also expressed by rival studio executives, folks from other business sectors, as well as Vice-President George HW Bush, and Warner Bros. Animation icon Chuck Jones. The Los Angeles sports teams quietly postponed home games that evening out of respect and resumed play the next evening, while a moment of silence was held at other sporting events around the country for the next seven days. The next day's Los Angeles Times headline BULLETS FLY OVER DOPEY DRIVE would forever live in infamy. In the main article of that day's paper, Walt strongly mourned the lives lost and commended the bravery of Henry's effort to stop Joszef.

Henry was hospitalized to treat his lacerations and bruises; but also to check for any internal injuries, despite his insistence that he was fine. His wife Martha, Deja, and Glen Keane visited Henry in the hospital the next morning; the latter told the others that they "found him to be in good spirits and looking good considering what happened... Henry clearly saved Judith and her mother from certain death." Both Walt and Don Bluth telephoned Henry in the hospital to inquire as to his condition; Bluth told Henry that he went above the call of duty, and informed him that his family expressed extreme pride in him. The San Bernardino Railroad Historical Society also praised Henry's actions, offering him a life-time cab ride pass on Santa Fe 4-8-4 #3751, which was still under restoration at the time. Furthermore, the Virginia Creeper Scenic Railroad [1] named their ex-N&W M Class 4-8-0 429, his personal favorite of their engines, after him, much like they had named #382 after famed photographer O. Winston Link.

The Barsi family's ending would be far more bittersweet however. Jozsef was buried in an unmarked grave, like a common criminal of old, on August 20th, 1987. After all the trauma she and Judith had suffered over the years at Jozsef's hands, it became too much for Maria and she swallowed a cyanide pill while Judith was asleep. Henry felt very upset about this, and soon made arrangements with adoptive services. In the end, Judith became the adoptive grandchild of voice acting legend Daws Butler through his son Paul. Today, Judith considers herself owing a strong debt to Henry that could never be paid. While Henry insists he was just doing what was right, Judith still auditions for every projects Banks or his family works on; most famously voicing Anna in Disney's Snow Queen (2004).

[1] Here, it's the N&W Abingdon Branch from the titular VA town to West Jefferson, NC having been made into a tourist line in 1956 as opposed to becoming a bike trail. It runs three ex-N&W M 4-8-0s: #382 "O. Winston Link", #396 "Stuart Saunders", and #429 "Henry Banks".

OOC: I hope you all have constructive feedback if you feel it's necessary. To my credit, I do hope this was somewhat plausible in the context of my greater TL.
 
Last edited:
It's pretty good, a bit sad in a way about he train everyone involved has had deal with.
On the bright side, I intend for that to be just part of my currently made TL's pop culture spin-off.

You can hope to expect some ideas I had for mainline steam excursions in the near future. So if you want go ahead and give ideas, fire away here.
 
Any opinions on my Amtrak Southeast idea?
 

Attachments

  • Alt AMTK Southeast.jpg
    Alt AMTK Southeast.jpg
    178.2 KB · Views: 366
Amtrak in my TL

1955: Eisenhower, in addition to creating the highway system, massively de-regulates the rail business. Letting railroads work on better competing with mainly road travel.

1967: OPEC begins pushing against the west for support of Israel. This leads to a decrease in cheap oil, and passenger rails begins to make a relative comeback.

Late 1960s into 70s: Urban centers are steadily improved as more people began to use Natural Family Planning as envisioned by mainly the Catholic Church among others.

1969: High fuel prices cause problems for airlines, and the High-Speed Ground Transportation Act of 1964, passed by Nixon and driven by the creation of the Tokaido Shinkansen in Japan, establishes faster passenger trains in the United States.

1974: Amtrak in the face of the energy crisis to improve passenger rail travel. Plans are especially made in co-operation with various railroads to create HSR Routes in the Northweast and Midwest.

1980: Ronald Reagan, and the GOP in general, begin to have second thoughts about the amount Amtrak is given when the New York-San Fransisco American President is proven and effective and comfortable ride.

1982: The SNCF, Pan Am, and several other airlines and investors make plans for a TGV line in the FWD-Houston/San Antonio area.

1986: Amtrak is re-organized as the National Passenger Rail Administration, an explicit division of the Department of Transportation

mid 80s: Amtrak's deals with Pan Am, Eastern and Continental are made

1990s: HSR in California starts with a line from Los Angeles to San Diego. Which is worked on in co-operation with the Southern Pacific. Later, service is expanded to the Central Valley with SP's Help.

early 2000s: 9/11 leads to Amtrak becoming a major figure in transport as more people begin to abandon the airplane.

2005: Several German investors and other buisiness people are able to start the Sunshine State Railroad in Florida. Which runs from Miami, via Orlando, to Jacksonville and Savannah in the north and Tampa in the west.

2007: The first Amtrak Midwest line is completed from Chicago to Detroit via South Bend, Kalamazoo, Jackson, and Ann Arbor. Next is to Milwaukee in 2008 then later in 2008 Indianapolis via Valparaiso and Lafayette.
 
Amtrak Rolling Stock ITTL

Passenger Cars

Superliners (788) [1]
- 144 sleepers, 251 deluxe sleepers, 80 coaches, 44 dining cars, 52 coach-lounges, 50 coach-baggage cars, 42 lounges, 55 baggage-dormitory and 70 transition-dormitory cars in service
- 85' long, 18' 2" tall, 10' 2" wide, four-axle trucks, speed rated to 120 mph
- All TTL Superliners are two feet taller than OTL ones (18' 2" total) and include the upper windows used in OTL Superliner lounge cars
- Superliner I sleeping cars have been rebuilt to ensure roomettes have private toilets and washbasins (Superliner I roomettes didn't have these) and two public showers, and the standard sleepers are fading from service as more and more trains go to more deluxe accomodations, though most of these are being rebuilt into deluxe sleepers
- TTL's Superliner coaches have four doors instead of two (similar to California Cars) and 2+1 seating on the lower level, and rebuilds of these cars added 120V power outlets, overhead luggage racks with restraint bars (to keep items from flying around in a crash), tray tables and footrests and reading lights, and were delivered with power-operated wheelchair ramps
- Coach-lounges all have snack bars and lounge seating on the lower levels
- Transition-dormitory cars are used for crew accomodations and the ability to transfer from double-deck cars to single-level cars
- All Superliners were built with the GSI-G70 trucks
- All cars built by Pullman-Standard (Superliner I) and Bombardier Transportation (Superliner II), with Superliner I cars delivered 1976-1980 and Superliner IIs delivered 1985-1988

Forgive me if this has been covered, but I have been off this site for a while, while enjoying short staff at work, polar vortices, and late season snowfalls...but have you considered an (almost) all roomette Superliner sleeper? For one night runs, a full bedroom is hardly necessary (especially for business travelers).
 

Attachments

  • Superliner Plan 14-1-1.pdf
    241.6 KB · Views: 357
As I am just working on this as training grounds of ideas in Light at the end of the tunnel, I have some current ideas for the MoPac...

- They take up the CGW to get into the Twin Cities and Chicago.
- The Union Pacific, instead of merging with the C&NW, buys up the Milwaukee Road lines from Chicago to Omaha and Kansas City. The CNW, as a result, works with the MoPac instead.
- The CGW Chicago-Omaha lines becomes ITTL's Iowa Interstate. Complete with more steam excursions beyond the two QJs, and including a few steamers from other Canadian and Midwestern lines, and even British Africa and Mexico. As in my TL, the former's network is Standard Gauge.
 
Top