The English House of Orange, or: William and Mary have a child

What if the union of William III and Mary II produced an heir, butterflying away Queen Anne and the entire House of Hanover? What would the effects be in England and beyond it?
 
Whisky Perve says

"Mary's animated and personable nature made her popular with the Dutch people, and her marriage to a Protestant prince was popular in Britain.[16] She became devoted to her husband, but he was often on campaign, which led to Mary's family supposing him to be cold and neglectful.[17] Within months of the marriage Mary was pregnant; however, on a visit to her husband at the fortified city of Breda, she suffered a miscarriage, which may have permanently impaired her ability to have children.[18] She suffered further bouts of illness that may have been miscarriages in mid-1678, early 1679, and early 1680.[19] Her childlessness would be the greatest source of unhappiness in her life.[20]"

so its definitely possible

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
What if the union of William III and Mary II produced an heir, butterflying away Queen Anne and the entire House of Hanover? What would the effects be in England and beyond it?
It is always hard to say, since you don't know how what charactertraits such an hypothetical child or its descendents would have. Would the potential monarch be able to keep the American colonies? Or would England lose India? Very hard to say without more information.

Some of the more obvious butterflies would be possibly no Union between England and Scotland. Also I think the Jacobites would have less of a case.

Oh, and the "personal union" between England/Scotland and the Dutch Republic? It would probably end after one or two generations. I doubt the Dutch (at least the regents in Holland) would want to be ruled from London.
 
Oh, and the "personal union" between England/Scotland and the Dutch Republic? It would probably end after one or two generations. I doubt the Dutch (at least the regents in Holland) would want to be ruled from London.

I agree, but would add the reverse is also true. Supposing at some point there are two sons (the 'easy' solution for splitting the countries), and the son in London died, the English would also make a fuss until they have either a new monarchy or the 'Dutch' son moves to London.

Alternatively, of course, the Dutch could just promote the Frisian branch to ruling all the (Orange-)Nassau possessions in the Republic, which could lead to some dynastic shenanigans added to the general Dutch-English relationship (and that might lead to some weird changes, given that Dutch-English relations were basically excellent from the glorious revolution until the American revolution)
 
Well, theoretically, if Mary has a child, then Queen Anne's kids have the potential to survive. So if England ends up in a scenario where the London brother dies, Parliament, in order to prevent another Anglo-Dutch union, nominates this prince as king of England, and the Stuart-Nassau second son stays in Holland or gets someone to back him up and fights for the crown a la War of the Roses, pt II.
 
Oh, and the "personal union" between England/Scotland and the Dutch Republic? It would probably end after one or two generations. I doubt the Dutch (at least the regents in Holland) would want to be ruled from London.

Couldn't it be arranged that the stadtholder-king be required to spend, say, four months out of the year in the Netherlands? Also, might not some of their high mightinesses enjoy not having somebody looking over their shoulder?

Conversely, wouldn't the Orangeist faction be emboldened by William having an heir, plus gaining three crowns?
 
Well, theoretically, if Mary has a child, then Queen Anne's kids have the potential to survive.

I don't follow. What is the connection between the pregnancies of Mary II and her younger sister Anne?

Mary never carried a child to term to give birth to a living child.

Anne did, on three occasions, her daughters Mary lived to almost reach her second birthday, Anne Sophia almost reached one and William, Duke of Gloucester even made it past his 10th birthday.
 
Before you start to read this post it is important to know the difference between Holland and the Netherlands. It could get confusing otherwise.
I agree, but would add the reverse is also true. Supposing at some point there are two sons (the 'easy' solution for splitting the countries), and the son in London died, the English would also make a fuss until they have either a new monarchy or the 'Dutch' son moves to London.

Alternatively, of course, the Dutch could just promote the Frisian branch to ruling all the (Orange-)Nassau possessions in the Republic, which could lead to some dynastic shenanigans added to the general Dutch-English relationship (and that might lead to some weird changes, given that Dutch-English relations were basically excellent from the glorious revolution until the American revolution)

Personaly I think these are the two most likely outcomes. Either Holland switches to the second son of the king or they switch to the Frisian branch. Interestingly I think some other provinces like Gelderland might stay with the English king as stadholder. Gelderland was always one of the more pro-Orange provinces in the republic. It could lead to a situation in which there will be three stadholders in the Netherlands, Groningen and Friesland (and maybe Drenthe) still have the Frisian branch, Overijssel and Gerlderland have the king of England/Scotland as stadholder, while Holland, Zeeland and Utrecht have yet another branch of the house of Nassau as stadholder (who would probably the most influential of all the stadholders).

Couldn't it be arranged that the stadtholder-king be required to spend, say, four months out of the year in the Netherlands?
I doubt it. I think the stadholder king would be busy enough being king in England to spend a lot of time in the Netherlands. Also I kind of doubt the English would accept it.
Also, might not some of their high mightinesses enjoy not having somebody looking over their shoulder?
Possible, but I believe that at some point the king will be making demands that the Dutch regents won't accept (or more correctly don't want to accept). I always believe it will take a generation or two for the split to happen and it would happen when the house of Orange will be truely English, instead of the Dutch rulers of England, like Willem was.

Conversely, wouldn't the Orangeist faction be emboldened by William having an heir, plus gaining three crowns?
Possible. The thing is, usualy the way the Orangist faction got in power was after some disaster happened (like the year of disaster) and the stadholder himself tried to place himself as the savior of the Netherlands. It realy depended on the stadholder himself and his personal charisma/competence. Without him (or with a weak stadholder like Willem V) the opposing parties will get into power. Especialy considering that that is were the money is.
 
I don't follow. What is the connection between the pregnancies of Mary II and her younger sister Anne?

Mary never carried a child to term to give birth to a living child.

Anne did, on three occasions, her daughters Mary lived to almost reach her second birthday, Anne Sophia almost reached one and William, Duke of Gloucester even made it past his 10th birthday.

What I'm saying is that if Mary has a son (in 1679/1680), then the chances of Anne's kids being precisely as OTL, or even dying as OTL diminishes (unless you have a pretty strong butterfly net).

Also, I found the Nassau-Oranje England TL I was thinking of when I saw this thread.
 
What I'm saying is that if Mary has a son (in 1679/1680), then the chances of Anne's kids being precisely as OTL, or even dying as OTL diminishes (unless you have a pretty strong butterfly net).

Also, I found the Nassau-Oranje England TL I was thinking of when I saw this thread.

Well of course anything can be butterflied away, however I think in this particular case we cannot ignore the fact that there was clearly a medical issue with Anne. The story of her pregnancies is truly shocking. Its been speculated that Anne may have had Antiphospholipid Syndrome.

18 pregnancies resulting in just three live births, two who died from ill health as toddlers and the one who survived appears to have been severely handicapped.
 
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