The Enemy Within...

Hyperion

Banned
...the bombship was just a stalking horse to trigger discussion of better alternatives.

Unfortunately, the discussions I've read mostly consider the carrier attack on Pearl Harbor the sole Japanese option. That's like claiming that Napoleon HAD to invade Russia. Alternatives to PH don't seem to appear - so I wanted to sound the waters.

The best chance I see of major success is having better trained gun crews on IJN submarines, possibly having some of them carry mines to lay near harbors or the mouth of known rivers that empty into the ocean, maybe the odd commando raid, send a dozen or so SNLF troops ashore to blow up a lighthouse or something

bombships and doing things like sending Nagumo to attack San Diego are either ASB, a showing of someone who is terrible at research and usage of the common sense factor, or a sign that a thread need be moved to the ASB section.

That or looking for a POD at least a couple decades earlier or longer.

I would advice you not try that again or stress stuff like that. A former member of the forum once took that stuff to extremes over several threads. You can check back through the pages looking for the threads, I think they where posted in 2007 or 2008, but needless to say, that member's material was shot down by better knowledgable people, and that person trolled to the point that Ian decided to give that member a long(permanent) vacation from the board.
 
...the bombship was just a stalking horse to trigger discussion of better alternatives.

Unfortunately, the discussions I've read mostly consider the carrier attack on Pearl Harbor the sole Japanese option. That's like claiming that Napoleon HAD to invade Russia. Alternatives to PH don't seem to appear - so I wanted to sound the waters.

Hyperion, I agree that mines are a logical weapon - the German HSKs were sent as far as the Pacific to mine waters off Australia and New Zealand, IIRC. Japanese equivalents could clandestinely mine US ports and deploy frogmen to mine ships. Not war-winning, but a nuisance and a massive diversion of defence resources.

Let the discussion continue...

The problem is that from a military perspective some things really are inevitable in a strategic and operational sense. The carrier attack on Pearl makes a perfect amount of strategic sense if we factor in that even the Imperial Japanese dictators didn't think they had the actual ability to defeat the USA in a war of exhaustion. If they didn't give themselves that capability, we shouldn't be more generous about their abilities than they themselves were.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Uh, Japan *did* attack the Philippines at the same time as it did Pearl Harbor. It won't attack CONUS outside of a Crack!TL, however.

Um, several IJN submarines did launch annoyance raids against the west coast. I even posted a link about the I-17 attempting to shell the Ellwood Oil Field near Santa Barbara, California.

In theory, not a bad idea for a hit and run raid by a small force. A stationary submarine, at night, against a fixed target on land. Only problem was the gunners onboard the I-17 had terrible aim, either undershooting the target, or overshooting, and actually sending a few shells several miles inland, blowing a few holes in empty fields.

Have the skipper of the I-17 train his gun crew better, and they might send a few oil tanks and oil wells up in flames.
 
The Japanese intent was to cripple the American ability to immediately respond to Japanese moves in the Pacific, then grab as much as they could before suing for peace and hold onto as much as they could at the negotiating table. Attacking anything but pearl would be counterproductive to just that strategy, it has far less short term effects on American capabilities in the Pacific, and it does nothing to afford the IJN operational freedom. Meanwhile, attacking the US mainland only decreases the chance that the US will agree to sit down to negotiate an end to hostilities.

The Japanese attacked Pearl because it was just about the only place they could attack to achieve their war aims.
 
Took time to return here...

...Dismayed to have lost several commentators, however critical...

To summarise the best alternative attacks :-
  • Submarine-launched mine, shelling or commando raids.
  • Air-attacks by seaplanes are a possibility.
  • The covert use of explosive ships is impractical.
  • Minisubs and human torpedoes may face boom defences and patrols, but are possible for suicidal attacks.
Mines would have to be laid in shipping channels by minisubs or submarines, which would be outside boom defence and guardship positions.
 
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