The Earl of Cornwall

[The Professor]

I need your input.

In an alt-Angevin TL the Infante Alphonse, brother to King Sancho II of Portgual, is marrying the Countess Margaret of Cornwall, daughter of Henry III [the ATL son of Richard Lionheart].
My question is what arms he would take on becoming Earl?
Bearing in mind that there is no Richard Earl of Cornwall and thus his arms don't exist.

 

[Thande]

The 'quina' ones would be cool because they resemble the OTL Cornish arms with the bezants--which supposedly come from a ransom they raised to free Richard the Lionheart, appropriately enough.

 

[The Professor]

The 'quina' ones would be cool because they resemble the OTL Cornish arms with the bezants--which supposedly come from a ransom they raised to free Richard the Lionheart, appropriately enough.

Hmmm, I should probably also add that TTL that didn't happen .

In brief
Phillip Augustus dies young
Henry II lives longer
Richard Lionheart is never King but still a crusader and dies out Syria way
Richard's son Henry III by Alais of France becomes King
Brief rebellion by King John of Ireland who claims Henry III is Henry II's bastard.
John is killed and John's son Henry bears the knee to Henry III and loses Earldom of Cornwall.


EDIT: though plates (silver roundels) might be a good reference for the tin and silver mines

 

[Alex Richards]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the arms to be formed from the display of England and Portugal halved?

If not, then the Blue lion on white makes most sense (signifying greater alliegence to England, but a strong Portuguese heritage.)

 

[The Professor]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the arms to be formed from the display of England and Portugal halved?

That would imply a union of the two Kingdoms - [edit] though another modification could fit.

If not, then the Blue lion on white makes most sense (signifying greater alliegence to England, but a strong Portuguese heritage.)

Sounds good. Could fit in with the other Angevins - Ireland gold lion on blue, Brittany black lion on white, Flanders-Hainaut black lion on gold (though it's not inherited from the Angevins, Joanna marries one)

 

[Baconheimer]

Do you mind if I use these in a map?

 

[The Professor]

Do you mind if I use these in a map?

What's it of?
I think my only "demand" would be crediting the lion as designed by me since I created it from scratch

 

[Kate The Great]

Richard the Lionheart has a son in this ATL? Bordering on the ASB??

 

[False Dmitri]

It's also important to keep in mind that heraldry was a lot more fluid at this stage. I think you know that, since none of these arms follow modern rules; but it would not be out of character for Alphonse to simply invent a new shield for himself (as indeed Richard, Earl of Cornwall did in OTL). That said, I do like the idea of visually tying the arms to those of the ancestors. How about something combining the lion with the quina?

 

[The Professor]

Richard the Lionheart has a son in this ATL? Bordering on the ASB??

Well OTL he had an illegitimate son Phillip of Cognac. Plus John may have a point

It's also important to keep in mind that heraldry was a lot more fluid at this stage. I think you know that, since none of these arms follow modern rules; but it would not be out of character for Alphonse to simply invent a new shield for himself (as indeed Richard, Earl of Cornwall did in OTL). That said, I do like the idea of visually tying the arms to those of the ancestors. How about something combining the lion with the quina?

Indeed I'm trying to be contempory.
You've given me some ideas!

 

[Alex Richards]

Oh, I like the second one best.

 

[The Professor]

Oh, I like the second one best.

Thank you .
It does look awfully familiar though...

 

[Alex Richards]

Thank you .
It does look awfully familiar though...

I don't really recognise it from anything.

 

[False Dmitri]

I don't really recognise it from anything.

The OTL first Earl of Cornwall used these arms, by coincidence:

 

[The Professor]

The OTL first Earl of Cornwall used these arms, by coincidence:

Yes, I'm aware and was trying to avoid it (as there's no Richard of Cornwall in TTL).
However we seem to have come at something similar the other way .

Considering the support for the blue lion on silver I'll keep that and work out some variants with those roundelly borders