The eagle's left head

[X Oristos]

Let's see now what Lauria will do in this timeline. In OTL he held lands both in Aragon and in Sicily. Specifically, in Sicily he held Aci Castello, Linguaglossa and Castiglione in Catania, Francavilla, Novara, Tremestieri, San Piero Patti, Ficarra and Tortorici in Messina. Basically, his fiefs were in TTL's Despotate. Since I doubt that Vatatzes would make Lauria the greatest landholder of the Despotate, then I guess his TTL's fiefs would be at the Val di Mazara. Such land allocation would make him the most important landholder close to Frederick. So, either Lauria prefers preserving his iberian holdings or he chooses to be the counterweight against Vatatzes in Sicily.

In OTL Lauria was able to switch sides because Constance requested that both Procida and Lauria escort her to Rome for negotiations. When he did defect to the Aragonese, he instructed his men in Sicily under his nephew Giovanni di Lauria to revolt. Frederick marshalled his forces and besieged Giovanni at Castiglione. When they surrendered, Frederick gave them free passage to Calabria. If Vatatzes was in Sicily at summer 1297, would have he allowed Lauria's veterans free passage?

Later on, the first campaign of Lauria in the angevin cause was a land one at Catanzaro. The great admiral proved to be unimaginative in a pitched land battle. He commanded a force of 700 knights and was utterly crushed by a much smaller Sicilian-Almogavar force. Wounded, he had to find refuge in a hedge and was saved only because a retainer of his saw him and gave him his horse.

It is by comparison a copy of the empire of Nikaia transplanted in Sicily. Good for the commoners, not so good for the barons but conveniently at the time of its establishment they probably were at their lowest ebb, after two generations of strong monarchs, Frederick II and then ironically Charles I breaking their power.

The Regno was already highly centralized for a state of its era and had the institutional mechanisms to transfer wealth from the broader economy to the state's coffers. If a western state was amenable for a Nikaia-style administration, that would be the Regno.

At some point, Vatatzes would need to found a university in order to train lawyers and other bureaucrats to disseminate and implement the nicaean laws.

Now that is more interesting... when such an army was handled well. Convenient that one of the best generals of the era is there to lead it no?

Oh indeed! And I have to say, it doesn't seem that the Angevins have a great general.

I would not underestimate the ability of the French style feudal system in a relatively rich area to generate large numbers of troops, just compare the numbers of troops the Principality of Achaea and Duchy of Athens could raise.

Very true.

However, I am under the impression that the constant war since 1282 must have strained the resources of the Regno. In the 1270s and 1280s, Charles of Anjou was able to field huge armies. By 1297 though, Charles the Lame has given up the rich counties of Maine and Anjou. Moreover, it seems that Calabria has been firmly part of the Despotate instead of being contested, e.g. Crotone and Catanzaro were in angevin hands by that point. It would make sense that raids and counter-raids will be around the plains of Basilicata.

At sea, the Allies enjoy superiority over the Sicilians, especially since Frederick proved to be at best a mediocre naval commander. After all, since he was outwitted by Lauria at Capo d'Orlando, he was about to go on a suicidal charge before collapsing.

However, when it comes to land, the Angevin effort was not very impressive. The joined 1298 campaign included some 500 knights and 3000 infantry. The next major campaign against Sicily had something between 600 and 1200 mounted men-at-arms. Charles Stanton finds the former number more plausible. The chronicler Ramon Muntaner claimed that Frederick had no more than 700 knights and 3000 infantry at the time of Falconaria. Later on, the host commanded by the count of Brienne had 500 cavalry. However, I am sure that this corresponds just to the offensive power projection of Charles. Whether Vatatzes was to threaten Naples, I am sure larger hosts would have been gathered.

The Despotate is not having an exactly unchallenged future in the coming few years. The Angevins have every reason to destroy it and once the war is over the Sicilian barons will have every reason to want to encroach on the damn schismatic. Whether that proves a good idea...

I would like to see the barons try ...

Also the Pope has good reason to destroy the Despotate.

now for the first time since the Arab conquest of Sicily, with the minor exception of the three years under Maniakes 5hey are ruled by a fellow Greek with a vented interest to support them...

New elites have risen, be they landholders, burghers or bureaucrats whose fate is connected to Vatatzes' success.

 

[Lascaris]

Palermo, March 1297

Roger di Lauria had come on the verge of outright revolt against Frederick, between entreaties by king James and Frederick III mishandling him at once accusing him of treason in front of the whole court and then taking no drastic action against him. Despite Alexandros advice either to fully reconcile with Roger or destroy him, Frederick had taken neither action. The impasse had in the end been solved by queen mother Constance who when summoned by James along with infante Yolanda, who was to marry Robert of Anjou to Rome, had asked for Roger and John of Procida to accompany her. Frederick had consented. Constance hoped she would be able to reconcile Frederick with James. She would be proven wrong.

Rome, April 1297

King James of Aragon, made Roger di Lauria admiral for life, while pope Boniface granted the admiral Messina as a fief, not accidentally Messina was at the moment controlled by the despotate of Sicily. Roger had made his choice between the two royal brothers...

Cefalu, June 1297

John Loria had risen up in revolt at news his uncle had switched his allegiance to James of Aragon. It had not gone well for him as Frederick had immediately brought a royal army against him, investing and taken Roger's fiefs one by one. Besieged at Cefalu John had surrender the fort in exchange of safe conduct to Naples.

Sicopotamo, Calabria, summer 1297

Roger di Lauria had instigated a revolt at the nearby town of Catanzaro. The castle had remained faithful to Sicily but agreed to surrender if no relief came within a month. Thus Roger had moved with a force of 700 knights and men at arms to ensure that no relief came. Roger had every reason to be confident of victory. King Frederick had sent no aid, the Sicilian barons were unwilling to campaign outside Sicily this time. Thus the army assembled to fight him had no knights of his own. Besides they were Greeks send by Alexander under his brother in law, who had recently come from the east were he had led a failed rebellion against the Greek emperor. How good could be someone who couldn't even defeat Andronikos? He charged against the Greeks with his knights. Just as expected the Greeks gave way before the charge. The knights followed them up till the charge start losing steam on broken ground and his knights were stopped by soldiers on foot almost as heavily armed as themselves, dismounted pronoia soldiers. And that was when the light cavalry and infantry showed on his flanks. The knights, their horses killed under them by stones and arrows and unable to extricate themselves from the trap were mercilessly cut down with little to no quarter given. The infantrymen in their wake tried to flee only to be cut down it turn by the Stratiotai coming after them. Roger, wounded in the arm, managed to flee by pure luck when one of his retainers found him hiding in a hedge and gave his lord his own horse to flee. Roger di Lauria had his first defeat in a lifetime and Alexios Philanthropenos his first victory in Italy. And Calabria would remain secure till next year...

 

[Xenophonte]

Roger, wounded in the arm, managed to flee by pure luck when one of his retainers found him hiding in a hedge and gave his lord his own horse to flee.

So, ITTL like OTL he still manages to survive by a stroke of luck...

Roger di Lauria had his first defeat in a lifetime and Alexios Philanthropenos his first victory in Italy.

I wonder if their enemies and allies alike would be able or willing to take note on how and why Di Lauria army was crushed so thoroughly...

 

[Quinkana]

So, ITTL like OTL he still manages to survive by a stroke of luck...

I wonder if their enemies and allies alike would be able or willing to take note on how and why Di Lauria army was crushed so thoroughly...

Considering di Lauria is still humiliated he should leave Sicily and Iberia alone for a little, so that should be per otl.

How would the rest of the naval war go though? I'd think that the Sicilians would have a fighting chance at least.

 

[Tourmarches_ton_Scholon]

The empire got invaded twice in 1264 and 1272 by the Golden Horde. Notably while it suffered defeats and looting in both occasions, it survived them intact and so did its armies. Which I find interesting for the question of what would had happened if a few tumans met the Komnenian army at its peak...

On the one hand, Alexios was quite successful against the Pechenegs, on the other hands the Mongols were definitely not the Pechenegs. I think the Mongols would handily win, mostly because morale has been a perennial issue with Byzantine armies, especially against nomads, and the Mongols were quite adept at breaking the morale of an enemy before battle was even joined.

 

[X Oristos]

How good could be someone who couldn't even defeat Andronikos?

To be honest, that was very sound logic. Anybody who didn't know the details of how Philanthropenos was betrayed would have thought the same.

Considering di Lauria is still humiliated he should leave Sicily and Iberia alone for a little, so that should be per otl.

In OTL that humiliation hardened di Lauria's resolve. He waited for a catalan-provencal fleet to assemble and then attacked. I have to say though, that he didn't tried to command again a land campaign.

How would the rest of the naval war go though? I'd think that the Sicilians would have a fighting chance at least.

OTL 1298-99 could have been an annus horribilis for the Sicilians but they managed to survive, even though they had basically already lost Calabria. It will be interesting to see what strategy both sides employ. I think for the first time, Frederick and eastern Sicily have different priorities than Vatatzes. In OTL the Angevins attacked from two directions, both from the west and the east. It is worth mentioning that di Lauria seemed to have prioritized getting back his fiefs in Messina and Catania. Since in TTL his fiefs are in Cefalu, then I guess he will try to attack there. So, Frederick will have his hands full with protecting his demesne and Vatatzes has to fight a land campaign in Calabria to protect Calabria. After all, Calabria is essential for the Despot, since it is a source of silver, silk and timber for warships. Not to mention that it seems a great part of imperial settlers were given land there.

Moreover, a land campaign in Calabria plays well into the Despotate's strengths: mountainous terrain, a great general and soldiers that are experts in fighting in such terrain.

 

[Quinkana]

In OTL that humiliation hardened di Lauria's resolve. He waited for a catalan-provencal fleet to assemble and then attacked. I have to say though, that he didn't tried to command again a land campaign.

considering his tactics I'd think Lauria would win against Alexandros unless Alexandros has a lot more ships and disadvantageous weather conditions (for Lauria).

OTL 1298-99 could have been an annus horribilis for the Sicilians but they managed to survive, even though they had basically already lost Calabria. It will be interesting to see what strategy both sides employ. I think for the first time, Frederick and eastern Sicily have different priorities than Vatatzes. In OTL the Angevins attacked from two directions, both from the west and the east. It is worth mentioning that di Lauria seemed to have prioritized getting back his fiefs in Messina and Catania. Since in TTL his fiefs are in Cefalu, then I guess he will try to attack there. So, Frederick will have his hands full with protecting his demesne and Vatatzes has to fight a land campaign in Calabria to protect Calabria. After all, Calabria is essential for the Despot, since it is a source of silver, silk and timber for warships. Not to mention that it seems a great part of imperial settlers were given land there.

Moreover, a land campaign in Calabria plays well into the Despotate's strengths: mountainous terrain, a great general and soldiers that are experts in fighting in such terrain.

I do see Frederick focusing on a naval war while alexandros focuses on a land war as the aragonese launch their offensive by sea while the Angevins try to get to Sicily from Naples.

 

[Quinkana]

Also, what's Charles ii of Naples doing all this time? Since it's as per otl in terms of Charles I dying and stuff I'd think Achaea could be conquered by Alexandros with his navy when the fighting in Sicily abates in the early 1300s as additions to his lands beyond Sicily. Also Achaea is quite defendable.

 

[HerodotosofBerlin]

First of, today I wrote an exam on intercultural Pedagogy today and an example was instead of only teaching about ancient Rome and Greece there should be put a larger emphasis on its modern counterparts of the Mezziogiorno and Greece, and after, this timeline didnt get out of my head
Secondly, Im not that well read about history at that time, but wouldnt there be knock ofs for the catalan company wich were ander andronikos payroll for some time since they, as far as I know, fought in Sicily at that time

 

[Lascaris]

So, ITTL like OTL he still manages to survive by a stroke of luck...

Were it Lost Monkeys quite possibly Roger would not had survived the encounter on grounds of strict plausibility. Here it would be making things too easy...

I wonder if their enemies and allies alike would be able or willing to take note on how and why Di Lauria army was crushed so thoroughly...

Western European armies kept losing this battle after battle so likely not.

To be honest, that was very sound logic. Anybody who didn't know the details of how Philanthropenos was betrayed would have thought the same.

Someone could argue Roger should know the details but its the 13th century we are talking about.

OTL 1298-99 could have been an annus horribilis for the Sicilians but they managed to survive, even though they had basically already lost Calabria. It will be interesting to see what strategy both sides employ. I think for the first time, Frederick and eastern Sicily have different priorities than Vatatzes. In OTL the Angevins attacked from two directions, both from the west and the east. It is worth mentioning that di Lauria seemed to have prioritized getting back his fiefs in Messina and Catania. Since in TTL his fiefs are in Cefalu, then I guess he will try to attack there.

That wouldn't be making much strategic sense and the pope had given Roger Messina as a fief as well. That it's not making much strategic sense doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen of course, Roger could well put his immediate personal interest ahead of that of the general war.

So, Frederick will have his hands full with protecting his demesne and Vatatzes has to fight a land campaign in Calabria to protect Calabria. After all, Calabria is essential for the Despot, since it is a source of silver, silk and timber for warships. Not to mention that it seems a great part of imperial settlers were given land there.

Moreover, a land campaign in Calabria plays well into the Despotate's strengths: mountainous terrain, a great general and soldiers that are experts in fighting in such terrain.

Calabria is a problem for the Angevins TTL. In OTL this is the time they reconquered it with little opposition while Frederick was tied down in Sicily. TTL there's Philantropenos and his army there... for a start.

considering his tactics I'd think Lauria would win against Alexandros unless Alexandros has a lot more ships and disadvantageous weather conditions (for Lauria).

Roger is the best admiral of the era. But speaking of numerical superiority the Sicilians had 48 galleys at Cape Orlando... TTL the Byzantine exiles have added two dozen more galleys to this. So the Sicilian fleet stands at 72.

 

[Quinkana]

Calabria is a problem for the Angevins TTL. In OTL this is the time they reconquered it with little opposition while Frederick was tied down in Sicily. TTL there's Philantropenos and his army there... for a start.

Tbf where's Alexandros and his army? I do think he shouldn't go beyond Calabria and Aquila considering the positions of everyone involved. Tbf post 1300s hopefully we'd see him plan and take Achaea due to proximity and defensibility against land invasions.

Roger is the best admiral of the era. But speaking of numerical superiority the Sicilians had 48 galleys at Cape Orlando... TTL the Byzantine exiles have added two dozen more galleys to this. So the Sicilian fleet stands at 72.

Hmm considering that Alexandros has a good pool of sailors to pull from he may have a fighting chance. It doesn't seem Alexandros agrees with the sea tho considering the earlier chapters, so who leads the fleet?

That wouldn't be making much strategic sense and the pope had given Roger Messina as a fief as well. That it's not making much strategic sense doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen of course, Roger could well put his immediate personal interest ahead of that of the general war.

Tbf roger also escaped from Palmero later in otl which is quite insane, maybe he just dies in Palmero?

 

[Lascaris]

Patti, Sicily, September 1st, 1298

In past years an army led by James of Aragon and Robert d'Anjou, duke, in name at least, of Calabria would had been considered an impossibility. And yet the supposed impossibility had just landed in Sicily, captured the town of Patti and was advancing south. Over the next few weeks Milazzo, Novara, Monforte and San Piero sopra Patti had fallen to the advancing Aragonese-Neapolitan army. Neither Alexandros nor Frederick had the numbers to take on the enemy directly, most of the despotate's army was in Calabria under Philanthropenos which was also being invaded. But if the Aragonese-Neapolitans had taken several towns, many more were holding out. Soon the invading army would begin to be concerned of its supplies as fall went on and winter approached.

Syracuse, October 30th, 1298

Ioannis Doukas Vatatzes, stood atop the tower of Castello Maniace at the end of the island of Ortygia, looking at the enemy galleys filling the sea below. The great Maniakes had fist built the castle a quarter of a millenia ago when he had come to liberate the island from the Arabs only to be betrayed by Constantinople, just as his father and uncles had been betrayed by Andronikos and his father. Then his great grandfather had rebuilt it and his own father had added yet more on the fortifications, not just of the castle and the island of Ortygia but the entire city. Now with James army camped outside the land walls and his fleet crossing the waters outside the city it remained to be seen whether the fortifications on which Alexandros had poured much of the specie extracted from the mines of Longobucco had been worth the silver that had been poured into building them. And one Ioannis Vatatzes had to prove he was worthy of his more illustrious ancestors. His uncle was with an army in Calabria. His father with most the rest of the army and the fleet somewhere outside Syracuse. It fell upon him and the garrison commander, John Chiaramonte to hold the city.

Syracuse March, 1299

King James raised the siege of Syracuse and retreated from Syracuse to Naples. The previous five months had proven most frustrating. Besieged Syracuse had beaten back all assaults while an attempt by a couple of priests loyal to the pope to open a gate had been found out in time, the Greeks had just impaled both priests for treason and any other prospective traitors had not dared to move. Outside the walls his army had been subjected to constant harassment by the Sicilians. Worse yet had come at sea where a squadron of 20 ships under John Lauria the admiral's nephew bringing supplies had been caught out in the straits of Messina by Vatatzes, With Vatatzes commanding 40 galleys to John's 20, all twenty Aragonese galleys had been captured in the ensuing battle. James did actually demand from his brother compensation for the lost crews and galleys as he was retreating from Sicily. Frederick was somehow not impressed by the argument...

Calabria, June, 1299

Charles II had tried to retrieve Calabria through a mix of subversion and military force. So far it was not working as well as he might have hoped. It was true that he had found a handful of priests loyal to Rome and yet more barons willing to side with Naples. But they were fewer than he might had hoped and over the last fifteen years Alexandros had generated quite a lot of loyalty among the commoners Greek and Italian alike. Thus most attempts to switch side had been met with counterrevolts with Philanthropenos and his army appeared to be everywhere supporting loyalists and making examples, very bloody examples, of their opponents. As for outright invasion, Philanthropenos was again everywhere. The Neapolitan army led by Philil and Robert d' Anjou was hit time an again and unable to forage from the country. With the Angevins already in the verge of bankruptcy and thus unable to field armies as large as in years past or properly supply them the problem was made all the greater.

Cape Orlando, July, 1299

James had reinvaded Sicily a mere four months after lifting the siege of Syracuse. This time though Frederick had brought the Sicilian fleet out to try to intercept the invasion force. It nearly worked when the Sicilians almost trapped the Aragonese fleet. But Frederick had declined Alexandros advice to immediately attack waiting for reinforcements instead and Roget di Lauria in command of the enemy fleet had extricated him from the worse. But still the Sicilians had significant numerical superiority with 72 galleys, 40 of them from the despotate under Alexandros personal command to Roger's 52. And yet Roger had managed to win taking advantage of lack of discipline among the Sicilian captains, were the most enthusiastic ones had broken the chain linking their ships to close with the enemy. Only the veteran despotate crews, had strictly adhered to Alexandros orders and kept formations but it had not been enough. The Sicilians had lost 21 galleys to Roger's 7...

 

[Aristomenes]

The forces of the despotate have been much more successful than the ones of Frederick, that should tip the balance of power in favor of Alexandros when peace comes.

 

[X Oristos]

The departure from OTL is significant: at this point in our history, the Angevins controlled Catania. Now, they have not even recovered Calabria. I guess that as in OTL, the Angevins stand alone: Jaime has departed and very few catalan galleys and Almogovars have been left behind. Paris has lost interest in Regno's affairs and soon they will be pre-occupied with Flanders. Charles is indebted and will soon have to destroy the muslim colony of Lucera in order to pay back a part of his debt to florentine moneylenders.

From Calabria Philanthropenos can raid the lowlands of Basilicata and might attempt to infiltrate with his light-armed troops the highlands of Potenza. @Lascaris have the Angevins recovered the island-fortress of Gallipoli?

 

[Quinkana]

The departure from OTL is significant: at this point in our history, the Angevins controlled Catania. Now, they have not even recovered Calabria. I guess that as in OTL, the Angevins stand alone: Jaime has departed and very few catalan galleys and Almogovars have been left behind. Paris has lost interest in Regno's affairs and soon they will be pre-occupied with Flanders. Charles is indebted and will soon have to destroy the muslim colony of Lucera in order to pay back a part of his debt to florentine moneylenders.

From Calabria Philanthropenos can raid against the lowlands of Basilicata and might attempt to infiltrate with his light-armed troops the highlands of Potenza. @Lascaris have the Angevins recovered the island-fortress of Gallipoli?

Considering pilanthropenos could strike into Aquila and it'd be really interesting for lucera to keep a few mosques (or have them be turned into churches) as Charles' control over there is less than otl.

 

[X Oristos]

Considering pilanthropenos could strike into Aquila and it'd be really interesting for lucera to keep a few mosques (or have them be turned into churches) as Charles' control over there is less than otl.

I doubt Philanthropenos can project power that far north. There are multiple castles in the way along with an angevin field army. Hence my comment on chevauchée raids in neighboring Basilicata. The only case where something of the sort can happen is after a totally crushing victory like OTL Benevento.

 

[Quinkana]

I doubt Philanthropenos can project power that far north. There are multiple castles in the way along with an angevin field army. Hence my comment on chevauchée raids in neighboring Basilicata. The only case where something of the sort can happen is after a totally crushing victory like OTL Benevento.

Tbf true, but I hope we'd see Naples be controlled by a Greek lord eventually (defo not now, maybe we'd see it much much further in the future).

 

[goumaister]

Did the forts and towns that fell in the west of Sicily fall back to Sicilian control after the retreat of king James to Naples? Are they holding out? They could be a foothold for a new landing there. Although as things are presented the Aragonese and Angevins don't have enough money to keep attacking from both sea and land. Anyhow, OTL there are three more years of conflict and this defeat in sea is like the lowest point of the Sicilian side. I don't see how the Angevins are going to retake Sicily when they can't even take Calabria. On the other hand the Sicilians have lost control of the seas and more than likely they won't take it back unless they ally someone like Venice or Genoa for support.

 

[X Oristos]

On the other hand the Sicilians have lost control of the seas and more than likely they won't take it back unless they ally someone like Venice or Genoa for support.

In OTL at 1298 the Sicilians got the service of a genoese fleet under Corrado Doria. After Capo d'Orlando, Frederick tasked Doria with rebuilding the sicilian fleet, add genoese ghibelline galleys and go on the offensive at sea. At June 1300, Doria loaded much of Sicily's aristocracy in his galleys and sailed to the gulf of Naples. Di Lauria lacked the vast majority of his veteran catalan sailors and marines, but still managed to outmaneuver the Sicilians. Doria was a prudent commander and wanted to retreat in time, but some of the sicilian aristocrats did not want to lose face and urged him to attack. Now, having veteran imperial crews may change the internal power balance and end up with Doria having the wiggle room to act according to his judgement. Or no. Perhaps despite the Sicilians being more prudent, di Lauria still inflicts a painful defeat.

As I see it, the naval campaign is a win-win for Alexandros. Either the sicilian fleet is preserved or in a defeat a lot of the local nobility end up dead or captured.

 

[Quinkana]

As I see it, the naval campaign is a win-win for Alexandros. Either the sicilian fleet is preserved or in a defeat a lot of the local nobility are dead or captured.

Tbf best scenario is for Lauria to engage Doria's fleet first and incur significant casualties then Alexandros' fleet surprises Lauria's fleet and win the day.