The eagle's left head

[Avrorrange]

Edward III's claim was based on being grandson to Philip IV, while Charles of Navarre was grandson to Louis X. Louis X being the latest king of the two, his line through Joan would carry the claim over that of Philip IV through Isabella; seniority was not the criteria here, otherwise the Dukes of Bourbon would inherit instead of the Valois.
That was though a technicality the English monarch conveniently ignored as it suited better their justification for war.

HIs claim was based on being the closest male relative by proximity to the last mainline Capetian King, that is Charles IV of France. He’s the nephew while Charles the Bad was a great nephew. The Valois etc were only cousins.Succession by Proximity by blood has all sorts of craziness. Artois was inherited for instance by Mahaut, the daughter of the last count of Artois instead of her nephew,who was the last count’s grandson by his only son.

 

[DracoLazarus]

HIs claim was based on being the closest male relative by proximity to the last mainline Capetian King, that is Charles IV of France. He’s the nephew while Charles the Bad was a great nephew. The Valois etc were only cousins.Succession by Proximity by blood has all sorts of craziness. Artois was inherited for instance by Mahaut, the daughter of the last count of Artois instead of her nephew,who was the last count’s grandson by his only son.

France didn't run on proximity by blood, though. The only argument would've been between agnatic primogeniture, or variants on agnatic-cognatic primogeniture. The former gave the Valois, the latter the Évreux, none of them Eddy III. Even ignoring Jeanne as a bastard, it would only put France iirc with the house of Burgundy.

 

[Avrorrange]

France didn't run on proximity by blood, though. The only argument would've been between agnatic primogeniture, or variants on agnatic-cognatic primogeniture. The former gave the Valois, the latter the Évreux, none of them Eddy III.

Until that point, it wasn’t really worked out. A lot of laws were still customs that were still underdevelopment. Until that point, almost all the French kings since the Capetians took the throne, if not all, were either succeeded directly by their brothers or sons, not cousins or nephews from what I could recall.Until Philippe Augustus, France technically wasn’t even a hereditary monarchy, but an elective one.

In parts of France, however, succession by proximity by blood was a thing, like the aforementioned Artois. It’s so crazy that it completely screwed over agnatic-cognatic succession. The Valois themselves used proximity by blood to takeover fiefs like Burgundy.

 

[galileo-034]

The Valois themselves used proximity by blood to takeover fiefs like Burgundy.

Burgundy was held as an appanage, which by definition reverted to the crown upon extinction of the direct male line.

 

[Avrorrange]

Burgundy was held as an appanage, which by definition reverted to the crown upon extinction of the direct male line.

There was no such thing as an appanage that reverts to the crown upon the extinction of the male line until much later, like during the Valois period. Besides that, the Valois literally took the duchy of Burgundy in the first place by inheriting it through the female line. A court case actually had to be held to decide whether Philip VI or Charles the Bad actually had the right to the duchy by inheritance, with the court deciding that Philip VI of France had better right because he was the grandson of one of the dukes, as opposed to being the duke’s great grandson . Reversion to the crown because of the extinction of the male line was never in discussion. It’s arguable that even after the Valois took the duchy, it wasn’t an apanage, but a continuation of the old duchy that was inheritable through the female line.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Burgundy was held as an appanage, which by definition reverted to the crown upon extinction of the direct male line.

Arguably, only Valois apanages did so.
The union of a fiefdom to the royal demesne meant said fiefdom followed royal succession laws... and thus so would the apanage.
But the lack of a clearly defined French succession law meant that no French succession law was imposed unto newly created apanages until, arguably, Philippe V established the Salic Law.
So while Valois Burgundy was recovered by the crown upon extinction of the male line, for Capetian Burgundy, they had to wait until Philippe de Rouvres's duchy fell into disinherence.

 

[isabella]

France didn't run on proximity by blood, though. The only argument would've been between agnatic primogeniture, or variants on agnatic-cognatic primogeniture. The former gave the Valois, the latter the Évreux, none of them Eddy III. Even ignoring Jeanne as a bastard, it would only put France iirc with the house of Burgundy.

Well, proximity by blood was the ONLY way in which the French succession could work after Philip V’s usurpation of his niece’s crown. If Clementia had not be pregnant at Louis X’s death, Joan would become Queen under the French laws and Philip had removed only the direct female inheritance. If blood proximity had not been applied together with female exclusion then the legitimate heir of them French crown would be little Philip of Burgundy, who was grandson of Philip V (son of his eldest daughter) and born before Charles IV’s death.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Well, proximity by blood was the ONLY way in which the French succession could work after Philip V’s usurpation of his niece’s crown. If Clementia had not be pregnant at Louis X’s death, Joan would become Queen under the French laws and Philip had removed only the direct female inheritance. If blood proximity had not been applied together with female exclusion then the legitimate heir of them French crown would be little Philip of Burgundy, who was grandson of Philip V (son of his eldest daughter) and born before Charles IV’s death.

Not really. Agnatic Primogeniture was also an explanation; one that the French nobility was far more willing to accept than proximity of blood as it avoided a foreign ruler and allowed to remove Jeanne which was widely believed to be a bastard, and not, in fact, Louis X's daughter (including by Louis X himself) as a result of the Nesle tower scandal.

 

[isabella]

Not really. Agnatic Primogeniture was also an explanation; one that the French nobility was far more willing to accept than proximity of blood as it avoided a foreign ruler and allowed to remove Jeanne which was widely believed to be a bastard, and not, in fact, Louis X's daughter (including by Louis X himself) as a result of the Nesle tower scandal.

Jeanne had a lot of support, Philip had to go to great lengths for persuading both her greatest supporters to accept his succession and was able to do it only because Clementia was pregnant and so the crown was vacant. Agnatic primogeniture was not applied at all in France until this point while blood proximity was used a lot: see the case of Artois were the one who was to be the natural heir was supplanted by his late father’s sister using blood proximity…

 

[Basileus_of_the_Hellenes]

Apologies for the lateness, I've recently returned from holiday. Here is the early 1340's map of the Mediterannean nation-states mentioned in The Eagles' Left Head!

As always, if anyone has any comments or suggestions, please let me know!

Notes regarding map of early 1340's:
- Sicilian borders are solidified, as are Thessalian and Epirote borders for the Despotate of the Two Sicilies
- John of Gravina was last noted holding Aetolia-acarnania so I rounded that out with the fall of the Despotate of Epirus granting them the lands south of what is known to have pledged fealty to Theodore
- With the OTL second Palaiologan Civil War going off without a hitch sadly, the Serbian borders have been revised under the pretense that Kastoria has fallen, and with the CW, I have decided to remove any zone of influence from Asia Minor except for those lands nearest Constantinople
- Sardinia: Unsure of which cities exactly Aragon has, so I've based it off what we know Aragon had around the 1330's. Until I read anything about it in the updates, I'll be leaving it alone.
- Granted Ottomans Zone of Influence South and West

 

[X Oristos]

When it comes to the greek population of the Regno, the book "Byzantium, Venice and the Medieval Adriatic" also mentions:

In 968 the Greek archbishop of Otranto was promoted to the rank of metropolitan and charged with creating new bishoprics in Basilicata where a Greek population then installed itself in the ancient sites of Acerenza and Matera and also in the new towns of Gravina, Tricarico and Tursi.

It seems that these territories were basically empty land between the the byzantine Longobardia and the Lombard Principalities. What would be the greek population of these cities after almost 4 centuries? My guess would be a minority perhaps, since we don't hear of norman or angevin attempts to move other settlers there.

Another development that we can expect in 1344 is in Croatia and Dalmatia. Louis will start his campaigns to bring both provinces under stricter royal authority and Zara will revolt against Venice. The siege of Zara was a major untertaking for the Serenissima. The Venetians had sent at least 20,000 men against Zara. Compare this number with the 1,000 cavalry and 2,000 infantry they sent to Crete during the Revolt of St. Titus. Of course, the latter was after the plague, but even so it demonstrates the commitment to keeping Zara.

 

[galileo-034]

Apologies for the lateness, I've recently returned from holiday. Here is the early 1340's map of the Mediterannean nation-states mentioned in The Eagles' Left Head!

As always, if anyone has any comments or suggestions, please let me know!

Notes regarding map of early 1340's:
- Sicilian borders are solidified, as are Thessalian and Epirote borders for the Despotate of the Two Sicilies
- John of Gravina was last noted holding Aetolia-acarnania so I rounded that out with the fall of the Despotate of Epirus granting them the lands south of what is known to have pledged fealty to Theodore
- With the OTL second Palaiologan Civil War going off without a hitch sadly, the Serbian borders have been revised under the pretense that Kastoria has fallen, and with the CW, I have decided to remove any zone of influence from Asia Minor except for those lands nearest Constantinople
- Sardinia: Unsure of which cities exactly Aragon has, so I've based it off what we know Aragon had around the 1330's. Until I read anything about it in the updates, I'll be leaving it alone.
- Granted Ottomans Zone of Influence South and West

View attachment 880396

It seems you put Samos in Byzantine purple, but it's Lascarid since about the same time as Chios I think.

EDIT: I just notice you did put Majorca on the map. They also ruled Roussillon on the continent, with Perpignan, just north of the Pyrenees from Catalonia.

 

[Quinkana]

Doable, yes, but not desirable.
Contrary to Sicily or Aetolia/Arcanania, which can be probably be culled in no time, due to local sympathies and geography favoring the Lascarids (both would be cut off from mainland Italy by Lascarid fleets), the Regno would require a more methodical conquest, reducing stronghold after stronghold. Louis' conquest was superficial and once he withdraws, the Lascarid cannot hope to occupy each and every stronghold in the Regno, still as populous and about as wide as the Despotate is. The Neapolitan nobility is not going to simply fold and submit to the Greek 'schismatics' of Syracuse, and from what happened in Lascarid domains of feudal domains, they have no reasons to, and there is little in the way of resources and alternative bases of support the Lascarids can hope to leverage against them unlike Greece and Sicily.
They could probably hold onto Naples and a few other ports, but beyond, they'd have to reduce each castle and stronghold one by one. Conquering Achaea from the Frankish barons took four years even with local support from greek peasantry, and no other war distracting the Despotate. The Regno ?
The conquest and pacification is a long term sinkhole of money and manpower they cannot afford while so many things are happening in the Balkans and Anatolia and are of more pressing concern.

It's true, but letting them in this quickly after helping Louis sounds like a recipe for disaster. Making it a lot harder to continue the Neapolitan's control over Naples in general may be better for the long run anyways, but that only comes from the knowledge of hindsight ig.

Charles III is not Joanna. He's a continuation of Robert the Wise and from what we know of him not really less capable. He may have a different policy than his father towards the despotate (or possibly not, Robert certainly wanted to see it under stronger Neapolitan control and with Frederick III gone had less reason to accomodate his ostensible vassal long term) but can mobilise armies and fleets to a comparable extend with Robert.

I mean even with Charles being as good as Robert there's a lot that will go wrong for him. Stuff like Andrew dying and the Florentine banking default would be pretty brutal for the state in general.

So if Naples is the one initiating hostilities they need to have a strong squadron west as well. The thing is the two navies are roughly equal in numbers. So who manages to concentrate more ships where and beat the other in detail determines the winner of a naval war. And who manages to get outside support one might add.

Normally I'd say the Aragonese may come in but they hate both the Angevins and the Lascarids rn. They'd prob dislike the Lascarids more rn, but would it make them want to join in the fray?

Also the despotate could still focus navies to fight the angevins just as well unless they are engaged against another foe.

I think the main thing is if Charles moves against the despotate it's probably when the despotate is doing something else. probably when the despotate is fighting against the Serbs and Kantakozenos.

On a side note, if Alexandros marries either a Navarrese or an English princess, the Lascarid would get more directly involved in the dynastic politics of the Hundred Years War, especially the Navarrese match would give Alexandros' proginy a claim to the French throne (if Edward III's interpretation of succession laws were to be followed to the letter, the House of Evreux would have a superior right). Even it's about getting back at Neapolitan Angevins, is it worth the trouble?

I think a Portuguese match is a good one. They're a relatively good naval power, and don't have clashing interests against the Lascarids.

I still think Catharine of Hungary if she's widowed is a good option tho.

 

[Basileus_of_the_Hellenes]

EDIT: I just notice you did put Majorca on the map. They also ruled Roussillon on the continent, with Perpignan, just north of the Pyrenees from Catalonia.

Thanks for pointing that out, but in order to keep my sanity and continually update the map in a timely matter, I'm avoiding the French, German regions and avoiding minor Italian holdings until they solidify more next century perhaps (aka, post-HYW). Instead, I'm focusing on Anatolia, North Africa, the North Balkans, and cleaning up the Major Powers in Italy that may affect our Despotate for the 1350's map.

 

[UnaiB]

Has Charles III of Naples had no more children since the birth of his daughter Helene in 1330? That's an apparent fact that has especially caught my attention, considering that we are in 1343 at this point of the TL...

Ok speaking of dynastic matches for Alexandros, what are the potential matches as of early 1344? The list below covers most not too old and born up to present.

1. Eleanor of Portugal born 1328... as long as Maria of Navarre does not die in childbirth
2. Agnes of Navarre born 1337 or Blanche born 1331.. in 1345 it will be proposed to marry her with Peter of Castille then in 1350 Philip VI of France will get infatuated with her and marry her despite being a few decades her senior.
3. Juana of Castille born in 1342 or 1338. She's illegitimate of course and too young at the moment.
4. Constance of Aragon. Born 1343.
5. Isabella of England born 1330 or Joan born 1333
6. Margaret (1325) or Anna (1326), or Elizabeth (1329) or Agnes (1335) of Bavaria. Now Louis IV was not in a hurry to marry off his daughters he waited to 1350 except for Anna.
7. Catherine of Bohemia born 1342
8. Bianca of Savoy born 1337
9. Theodora of Serbia. born sometime after 1327
10. Elizabeth of Bosniα. Born 1339
11. Theodora Kantakouzenos, born 1330
12. Maria Palaiologina, born before 1340
13. Constance (born 1324) or Eleanor (1325), or Beatrice (1326) or Euphemia (1330) of Sicily. Of course one might question what the kings of Albania by now have to offer that the despotate cares about...

Another possible marriage option for Alexandros (and IMO a quite interesting one) would be Catherine of Hungary (daughter of Charles Robert and half-sister of Louis I), who IOTL get widowed from Henry II of Świdnica in 1345. She is about 5/7 years older than him, but I don't think that would suppose too much a problem, specially considering that such marriage would strengthen a lot the foreseeable upcoming alliance between the Despotate and Hungary.

 

[Quinkana]

She was married in 1338 so not really.

tbf what's wrong with Catherine of Hungary marrying Alexandros after she got widowed?

 

[Avrorrange]

With Charles III at the helm, would Andrew still get murdered? I think the Tarentines only did it IOTL because they either had the silent approval of Joanna or because they thought that they would not get a strong response from her.

 

[Lascaris]

Has Charles III of Naples had no more children since the birth of his daughter Helene in 1330? That's an apparent fact that has especially caught my attention, considering that we are in 1343 at this point of the TL...

TTL Helene was the 6th child of Charles and Marie. Both were relatively young but it doesn't seem to me an unreasonable number of pregnancies for Marie. Of course as of 1344 she's still 35 so...

With Charles III at the helm, would Andrew still get murdered? I think the Tarentines only did it IOTL because they either had the silent approval of Joanna or because they thought that they would not get a strong response from her.

Perhaps... then perhaps not. I get the impression Joanna had an affair with Louis while Andrew was still alive but I could be wrong. If she DID have an affair then Andrew's prospects are worse than otherwise.

 

[Lascaris]

Naples, January 1344

The news of the death of Maria of Anjou reached Naples. Charles was uncertain whether this was an opportunity or an inconvenience. As long as Maria was alive she was offering a convenient fig leaf to both him and Theodore in Syracuse over control of the principality of Achaea. But now the fig leaf was gone. He now was prince of Achaea. And had to decide what to do about it. And he had to do so promptly.

Algeciras, March 1344

The city fell to Iberian Christian forces after a twenty month siege. Most Iberian Christian powers at least. Peter IV of Aragon had left the siege the previous year to go to war with Majorca instead.

Durazzo, March 1344

Most of Albania had fallen to Serb armies over the previous two years. The sole exception had been the kingdom of Albania. But beyond the grandiose title the kingdom was little more than Durazzo and its environs. And since 1338 it had been granted by Robert of Anjou to Peter II of Sicily to rule, after his surrender of Sicily. But Peter had died in 1342 leaving of four year old son Louis as king of Albania. Stefan Dusan was not going to let such an opportunity go to waste. He led an army of 20,000 against Durazzo.

Syracuse, April 19th, 1344

"If you want to be considered a proper Christian prince, and not a schismatic excommunicated one like your father, or worse yet your great-grandfather, you have to act as one. His holiness Clement VI and his predecessor John XXII had shown tolerance to both you and your brother, recognizing the difficult circumstances you were facing but you cannot continue to give lip service to the true church while acting as a schismatic indefinitely. This has to stop."

Theodore Doukas Lascaris Vatatzes, despot of Sicily, gave a careful look at Henry of Asti, the Latin patriarch of Constantinople and suppressed the twin urges to either start laughing or kick Henry out. People claimed he could persuade anyone anything he liked, sadly an exaggeration. But you didn't get that reputation by failing to hold to your temper. Adrienne was not as polite though nor as diplomatic.

"I presume that special circumstances were fighting in alliance with the father of your paymaster?" she noted acidly. Henry pretended to ignore the comment as he waited for Theodore to talk.

"So you won't tell us what his holiness wants from us?"

"First you must pay all the tithes due the Holy See. With appropriate interest of course. Second you must ensure that the proper Latin rite is followed in all your holdings. Both in Italy and Sicily and in Greece. Last you cannot continue to usurp titles like that of the principality of Achaea as you do at the moment. It must be returned to your proper lord the king of Sicily. I'll remind you the kingdom of Sicily is a feudatory of of the church. By usurping lands within it you are effectively usurping church titles. You understand this cannot be tolerated indefinitely."

Most people within the reception room were already bristling. Not Theodore.

"That's all? I see his holiness was in a good and forgiving mood." If Henry recognized the irony he did not show any sign of doing so.

"So you accept duke?"

"Despot." Theodore noted absentmindedly. "Doukas is our family name not a title."

"Despot then. Do you accept his holiness instructions"

"No"

Thessaloniki, May 1344

Ioannis Kantakouzenos had marched east earlier in the year, reaching Didumoteichon where his wife had remained blockaded for the past two years and capturing several fortresses on the way. But his son Manuel and Umur of Aydin were back in force after Thessaloniki with an army of 15,000 men and a fleet of two hundred ships, putting the great city again under siege.

Avignon, May 24th, 1344

Pope Clement VI proclaimed Theodore Doukas Lascaris Vatatzes excommunicated, his marriage to Adrienne Palaiologos void on grounds of adultery, effectively making their son Alexandros a bastard and a full interdict on the lands of the Despotate of the Two Sicilies...

Naples, June 7th, 1344

Martino Zaccaria bowed before his new employer. Charles III had just made him grand admiral of the kingdom of Sicily. It was not the only titles Charles had given that day. Andrew of Hungary the husband of his elder daughter Joanna had been proclaimed duke of Calabria. His cousin Charles, count of Gravina had been proclaimed prince of Achaea...

 

[Bregil]

So it begins...