The eagle's left head

[Avrorrange]

I can't see a Siciliote takeover of the ERE having any less continuity than that of the post-1204 restoration (i.e. Empire of Nicaea rolls in to Constantinople and kills off the Latin Empire). As it stands, it is a vassal realm and thus still part of the Empire, and ruled by a noble line that is pretty deeply entrenched in the history of Imperial politics. In terms of statecraft and political structure, the qualities of the Despotate of Sicily seem to more be the child of preexisting Laskarid-Vatatzes trends marrying with the need to interact with Western European feudalism and the Papacy out of pragmatism than the Norman system of Sicily assimilating Byzantine trappings as the Ottomans did.

Legally speaking, the Despotate is as much a vassal realm to the ERE as Montferrat was to the ERE. It wasn’t until much later that they acquired some territory that could be constituted as imperial fiefs.I think only a few Aegean islands and perhaps parts of the Southern Peloponnese outright owed vassal status to the ERE( I don’t think they ever clarified whether Southern Peloponnese was an imperial fief after they conquered it though). The legal status of Morea and Attica seemed vague enough that they might as well be independent territory with no feudal superior. Bulk of the realm, including Achaea, consisted of territory ruled through the framework of Latin government.In terms of legitimacy and actual government administration, the Despotate is a continuation of the Kingdom of Sicily under the Hohenstaufens.

The way I see it, the Lascarids taking over the East Roman throne is not that dissimilar to Duke Edward III of Aquitaine(aka King Edward III of England) and his Norman-French speaking nobles taking over the French throne, except the ‘King of France’ in this instance is so pathetic that if the Lascarids do fight, they would walk over the ‘King of France’ if they didn’t have external help .This is even more of a case if the Lascarids ever succeed in conquering Naples before taking on the ERE.

 

[Lascaris]

Wasn’t talking about nationalism. I was pointing out how it’s incorrect to dismiss the Despotate as just another ERE spin off ala Trebizond or Epirus. The despotate is an entity whose claim to legitimacy is not based on ‘Byzantine Imperial’ pedigree, but Hohenstaufen Sicilian Royal/Holy Roman Imperial pedigree. When the despotate first formed, it’s largely dominated by Latins and Greeks who were attenuated to Norman-Sicilian way of governance, where it was just as centralised as the empire of old, but places far more importance on blood and pedigree as per the Latin West. Given how long they have been under the Latin West’s sphere of influence, I somewhat doubt even the Greeks of Sicily/Southern Italy actually cared about who Alexandros I‘s father was, or the ERE in general. They probably don’t even care about the Patriarch of Constantinople. To them, Alexandros’ father was probably another tinpot ‘emperor’. They were following him because he’s got the blood of Stupor Mundi. Given how centralised Sicily already was prior to the Angevin takeover, it’s probably best to say that Alexandros merely hijacked the Hauteville/Hohenstaufen state machinery and gave it a ‘East Roman‘ flavour.In some sense, a Lascarid takeover represents the triumph of the Norman-Sicilian tradition masquerading itself as East Roman. Hence the Death and Rebirth.

Realistically speaking Kantekouzenos has no means of stopping the Lascarids except through foreign aid, unless the Lascarids lets them finish the process of re-centralising the empire.

The description is substantially correct. Alexandros I, jumped into the fray as the grandson of the stupor mundi and direct descendant of the Norman kings. What he found in Sicily even after a generation of Angevin rule was the most centralized state on Earth and he built on that. Even the East Roman flavour was not exactly alien, Norman Sicily was not that distant from the empire, if anything the three Norman invasions could be seen as attempts by the Hautevilles to become basileus unlike what happened in 1204.

Where Alexandros differed and why are we seeing the reversion of the retreat of the Greek language in Sicily and Calabria? First Alexandros grew up in Constantinople. So he is steeped in the tradition that yes you do have a mostly hereditary aristocracy but anyone can join it, in theory at least, and the aristocrats are not running their own little statelets. Barons doing as they please fighting each other is anathema to him. Now his Hauteville/Hohenstauffen side of the family would certainly approve that was their goal after all but Alexandros is showing up in 1282 Sicily where the barons are trying, successfully, to reassert themselves.

So Alexandros has three main problems.

1. The Sicilian barons have every reason to prefer someone with a lighter hand, like his cousin in Palermo who can also claim descend from the stupor mundi.
2. He is a damn Greek. If the house of Barcelona had issues with papist loyalists they are exacerbated for him.
3. When he shows up in Sicily he has no contacts there at all unlike his Aragonese council who could count on the services of John of Procida at least.

How Alexandros goes about solving his problems?

1. Not unlike Peter and his sons he needs a fighting force loyal only to him on which he can fall back. Peter imported their own Aragonese. Well so did Alexandros importing his own Greeks. But Alexandros has an advantage here, the Aragonese were a totally alien element. The Greeks find themselves in a substantially Greek land with ties to the east.
2. The barons don't want him. Well neither does Alexandros want them. So he takes a page from his father and brother and supports the peasantry against the barons, takes a page from his grandfather and supports the communes against the barons, starves them of new land and when they inevitably rise up smacks them down. Now what is the largest commune in his part of Sicily? Messina by an overwhelming margin. Only Messina also happens to be the center of Greek influence in Sicily and just as conveniently gives him a fleet as well. Why then he makes Syracuse instead of Messina his capital? Part chance, part keeping Messina under control.
3. He's a damn Greek, with no contacts, his first language being... well Greek. Presumably he has some Sicilian from his mother which should help. So which is the group he's best able to communicate with in Sicily? The Greeks. Which also happens to be downtrodden and second class citizens under the Angevins and to a much lesser degree even under Frederick. They have every reason to overwhelmingly support him which in turn means Alexandros can rely on them in turn and has every reason to support them. But the Greeks also happened to include a service aristocracy... which clicks with the part about putting the barons down.
4. He's a damn Greek part two, so there will be more papist reaction against him, papist as opposed to catholic, since in OTL you did have conspiracies and the Angevins taking Catane thanks to loyalists to the pope. And for good measure the pope has excommunicated him. Happily for Alexandros the pope has put on interdiction the entire island. The interdiction was no small thing. For two decades the pope was not allowing baptisms, marriages and funerals or even mass in Sicily and for that matter ordaining new priests. Well... Alexandros has a jail out free card, his Greek population is Greek rite. Yes technically they accept the pope as head of the church. In practical terms that a south Italian monk like Barlaam could become abbot on a Constantinople monastery in the 1330s and as late as the 16th/17th century the papacy was still counting the "Greek" priests and was looking at them with suspicion says a fair bit. So Alexandros backs the Basilians which gives him multiple advantages. Aside from the Greek rite population caring even less than the average Sicilian about the excommunication it lets him circumvent the practical problems of the interdict, priests are still ordained, mysteries still take place and it also lets him put HIS people in church leadership giving him substantially more control of the local church... French monarchs and Byzantine emperors would approve. As a side effect it also creates pressure towards Greek. If you can't baptize your kid but your Greek priest neighbor will at the very time you don't think well of the papacy...

So effectively everything conspires for the new dynasty to want to support its local Greek population and the lower classes and city communes. The expansion into Greece on a large degree could be seen as no different than what their Hauteville ancestors attempted to do but here the imperial heritage and being Greek comes to play... as do the already established policies of Alexandros to back his Sicilian peasantry and bourgeois against the hereditary nobility. If you are a Greek Moreot peasant or soldier... or a couple decades later one of the three leading families of Monemvasia you have every reason to prefer the new management to a bunch of French nobles... or for that matter a bunch of Greek nobles.

 

[Quinkana]

As a side effect it also creates pressure towards Greek. If you can't baptize your kid but your Greek priest neighbor will at the very time you don't think well of the papacy...

Tbf another effect that would push the Sicilians to speak greek would be the language of administration and the parliament too. Since the state is rather centralised the first language that will be used by Alexandros and co would be Greek, and even with Sicilian versions of the ruler's edicts the ppl in between will probably be Greek-speaking.

The Sicilian parliament also would be speaking Greek due to the government and the significant greek minority, which will be another reason to convert.

 

[Lascaris]

Genoa, December 1339

Simone Boccanegra became the first doge of Genoa riding on the wave of a popular uprising led by the crews of the Genoese that had been hired out to the French king and had mutinied and returned to Genow after they had been left unpaid by their commander and Philip VI who had been actually paying had jailed their representatives who had tried to complain.

Sluys, June 1340
Earlier in the year the French navy, deprived of the majority of its Genoese mercenaries had lost 42 ships to an English raid. But this was nothing compared to the disaster that had now befallen it as it had been caught by the English at Sluys. Despite the French having numerical superiority, the English had had more marines and the French admirals were land commanders with no experience at sea. The French out of 213 ships would lose 190 and nearly 20,000 men. The English would lose 2 ships. The next month the French would extract some revenge on land when a French army of 3,000 men would crush an Anglo-Flemish army four times its sizes inflicting 8,000 casualties on it in the battle of Saint Omer.

Rio Salado, Spain, October 1340

Back in April the Marinid navy had scored a crushing victory against the Castilians with just 11 galleys out of 52 surviving. But the Castilians had immediately start a construction program completing 27 new galleys at Seville, had hired 15 more from Genoa and had received Portuguese reinforcements, Castilian diplomats had also gone to Barcelona and Syracuse seeking help but the Aragonese despite promising help had done little and Theodore was still consolidating his position thus had refused immediate help. With the situation at sea thus restored the Castilians and Portuguese had forced the Marinids and Granadans who were besieging Tarifa to battle decisively defeating them...

Constantinople, June 10th, 1341

For the past four years the Orthodox church was being torn over Hesychasm a practice followed by the Athos monks and claimed by them to allow practitioners to see the light of mount Tabor. Barlaam of Calabria, Greek but steeped to the scholastic traditions of the west had attacked the claims of the monks as heretical. The monks had reacted by bringing forth Gregory Palamas to defend their case and soon the controversy had turned bad enough to require calling a holy synod to solve the issue. Despite the initial absence of the emperor, the synod would proceed and condemn Barlaam who would be forced to repent by it. But the matter was not over as Palamas arguments did not stand all too well with the more logical minded members of the church [1] and soon more and better theologians than Barlaam would join the fray.

Syracuse, June 27th, 1341

"So you you decided in a hurry to leave Constantinople, after the synod."

"Yes your serenity. I saw no reason to stay. I had made my argument. It wasn't accepted as it should. and the supporters of Palamas are growing aggressive in the streets. I was hoping that your serenity would have some use for me here."

Theodore hid a smile, as he had a look at Adrienne at the throne on his side. The damn monk was of course trying to flatter him and laying it down thick hence the "your serenity", that was the way to address the basileus not a despot. But still he did have a use for him actually. "As a matter of fact I do Barlaam"

"Your serenity?"

"The realm has no institution of higher learning of its own. This is not something I want to see continuing. So I have decided to follow the example of my great-grandfather when he established a university in Naples. A university will be established in Syracuse and you will the man to see it established. Is this task sufficient for your talents? now I have to attend to the other news that came from Constantinople after you."

Barlaam of Calabria, never a man to lack confidence in himself smiled... then he noticed what Theodore had just said. "Other news, your serenity?"

"Why, it appears Andronikos died just a couple days after you left the City. I guess there will be a regency in the City. Ioannis is just 9."

Constantinople, July 1341

Megas Domestikos Ioannis Kantakouzenos presided over a second synod to deal with hesychasm, not even a month had passed from the previous synod for serious objections to be raised by Gregory Akindynos, a theologian and friend of patriarch John XIV against the teachings of his former teacher Palamas. But Palamas had the support of Kantakouzenos who presided over the synod, thus won once more with Akindynos verbally condemned. But the synod had other unexpected side effects. By presiding over it Kantakouzenos had taken for himself imperial prerogatives. Dowager empress Anne, Andronikos window, was suspocious of him even when Andronikos was alive. It did not need much to make her increasingly paranoid about the regent..."

Didymoteichon, October 26th, 1341

The relations between Kantakouzenos and Anne of Savoy had steadily deteriorated over the preceding months, till Anee influenced by megas doux Alexios Apokaukos and the patriarch had taken advantage of Kantakouzenos moving with the army in Thrace to dismiss him from the regency and all his others positions in government. Kantakouzenos had reacted by proclaiming him basileus on the feast of St Demetrios and the empire was for once more in civil war. And unlike that between the two Andronikos fifteen years later this threatened to bring much darker passions to the surface. Kantakouzenos thanks to his earlier position and his reforms of the pronoia and taxation system over the past decade meant he could count upon the army and state apparatus in Thrace and Macedonia. But while his reforms had been inspired by the Lascarid ones he had seen at work in Sicily and the Morea there was a big difference between the two. Kantakouzenos and Andronikos had relied on the aristocracy. Their reform while restoring the functioning of pronoia and taxation, had relied on said aristocrats instead of the peasantry and the city communes Lascarid power had relied upon [2]. The lot of the lower classes had improved but that was incidental and a decade was hardly enough to remove the deeply rooted distrust for the aristocracy. Apokaukos, of humble origins himself, would deliberately try to play upon this and elicit the commoners support inciting mobs in Constantinople to attack the property of Kantakouzenos and his aristocratic supporters. Soon the new civil war would start to demostrate what future eras would call a class element...

[1] Three guesses on my opinions on hesychasm.
[2] Put differently Kantakouzenos been doing what the Ottomans would be doing a few decades down the road. Which may have similar macroscopic effects to what house Vatatzes is doing in you want to count taxation and the ability to raise armies but if you go below that to the details...

 

[Aristomenes]

"Why, it appears Andronikos died just a couple days after you left the City. I guess there will be a regency in the City. Ioannis is just 9."

Unfortunately Andronikos III died as IOTL. Poor ERE can't catch a break...

Didymoteichon, October 26th, 1341

The relations between Kantakouzenos and Anne of Savoy had steadily deteriorated over the preceding months, till Anee influenced by megas doux Alexios Apokaukos and the patriarch had taken advantage of Kantakouzenos moving with the army in Thrace to dismiss him from the regency and all his others positions in government. Kantakouzenos had reacted by proclaiming him basileus on the feast of St Demetrios and the empire was for once more in civil war. And unlike that between the two Andronikos fifteen years later this threatened to bring much darker passions to the surface. Kantakouzenos thanks to his earlier position and his reforms of the pronoia and taxation system over the past decade meant he could count upon the army and state apparatus in Thrace and Macedonia. But while his reforms had been inspired by the Lascarid ones he had seen at work in Sicily and the Morea there was a big difference between the two. Kantakouzenos and Andronikos had relied on the aristocracy. Their reform while restoring the functioning of pronoia and taxation, had relied on said aristocrats instead of the peasantry and the city communes Lascarid power had relied upon [2]. The lot of the lower classes had improved but that was incidental and a decade was hardly enough to remove the deeply rooted distrust for the aristocracy. Apokaukos, of humble origins himself, would deliberately try to play upon this and elicit the commoners support inciting mobs in Constantinople to attack the property of Kantakouzenos and his aristocratic supporters. Soon the new civil war would start to demostrate what future eras would call a class element...

So if Kantakouzenos controls the army, to who will Anne of Savoy and Alexios Apokaukos turn to in order to obtain an army? The Serbs, or the Ottomans? I hope ITTL the Ottomans won't expand in Europe.

 

[Xenophonte]

So if Kantakouzenos controls the army, to who will Anne of Savoy and Alexios Apokaukos turn to in order to obtain an army?

To Constantinople, itself and/or to Urban self formed popular militias/appeal to those in the Army of peasantry origin,perhaps?

 

[Oda]

Fuck andronikos the third die well rip ERE nice knowing ya

 

[DankStalin]

Isnt Kantakouzenos in a bit of disadvantage too? Since Byzantium's pronoia system relies on the nobility, the same ones that are now being forced to pay their taxes and do their duties (Oh the horror). Which means that Kantakouzenos while theoretically able to muster huge resources and manpower will be hamstrung by the same nobles? The nobility might even rally to Anne instead, bringing the pronoia soldiers with them.

 

[Valin Arcadius]

Fuck Andronikos the Third died well rip ERE nice knowing ya.

The end of the empire as it was perhaps, but also the seeds of its return to the hands of the Laskaris, after all its not the first time they have set the stage for a return to Constantinople, and this time they don't have the imperial nobility plotting to stab them in the back...

 

[Oda]

The end of the empire as it was perhaps, but also the seeds of its return to the hands of the Laskaris, after all its not the first time they have set the stage for a return to Constantinople, and this time they don't have the imperial nobility plotting to stab them in the back...

Honestly imo other than the Laskaris restoration the only hope ERE has is Kantakouzenos decisively destroyed Anna and take the crown for himself but that’s a long shot

 

[TheCataphract]

So if Kantakouzenos controls the army, to who will Anne of Savoy and Alexios Apokaukos turn to in order to obtain an army? The Serbs, or the Ottomans? I hope ITTL the Ottomans won't expand in Europe.

Genuinely the Lascarids are probably the most palatable option. A large, veteran army and fleet with a strong reputation among the lower classes. That said, the Lascarids won't be likely to leave once they are allowed in. Though they're more likely to be willing to negotiate some kind of power sharing agreement. That certainly has long precedent in the Roman system. It's maybe not a guarantee of stability for what would certainly be the junior partner, but that's a problem one has to be alive in order to address.

Of course more foreign supporters might be considered less dangerous to the dynasty, but I think OTL shows us just how foolish that would be. Though, let it never be said that the Romans did not have their fair share of fools.

 

[Project98]

The only problem I see for the ere is the capital problem, the good news is that Constantinople isn't the bureaucratic monster that it was before the fourth crusade,but it is still a huge ass city And I don't see how it won't end badly.
Maybe it become an semi autonomous patriarch fief .
Maybe it will become like Naples after the riunification,where most jobs collapsed and the most educated moved ,others got to become massive bandits problem.
Fortunately geography Constantinople is not in the middle but on the outskirt of the ere.
It would probably collapse a bit of rule of law
around thrace and helping along or ruining the financial state of nearby Turkic beys.

 

[Whiteshore]

Maybe it become an semi autonomous patriarch fief .

Which could have some interesting repercussions for the Orthodox Church with the possibility of an Orthodox "Vatican" being a thing.

 

[X Oristos]

We are in 1341. I suppose that soon Robert will begin again negotiations for a betrothal: Alexandros is 15 and Maria 12. Fostering Maria in Syracuse and an official betrothal could be in the calendar. I wonder if Anna of Savoy and Kantzakouzenos will send betrothal offers of their own. Maria-Irene Palaiologina is of the right age after all. Theodora Kantakouzene is younger but also a potential bride. However, Alexandros and Palaiologina are way too close related for the orthodox tradition, so it would be quite problematic.

Having said that, an Angevin marriage seems to offer many more political advantages over a Kantakouzenos marriage. First and foremose, Theodore doesn't have to go against his word with Robert. Moreover, the angevin marriage secures peace in Italy, while on the other side it will engulf the Catepanate in a war. Certainly, Charle's succession will be a clusterfuck, but Theodore cannot know the potential fate of Andrew.

One thing is certain: if Anna or Ioannis think of allying with the Aydinids - who are currently a major problem for the Catepanate, it won't go well with Theodore.

 

[Valin Arcadius]

The only problem I see for the ere is the capital problem, the good news is that Constantinople isn't the bureaucratic monster that it was before the fourth crusade, but it is still a huge ass city And I don't see how it won't end badly.
Fortunately, geography Constantinople is not in the middle but on the outskirts of the ere.

At the moment if the Lascarids took over the empire, the most likely outcome would be the emergence of a duel capital system, at least initially. However, as they implemented their reforms, reorganized the empire, and started reclaiming more lost territory the center of power would gradually but inevitably shift back to Constantinople, the city's strategic position is just too damn good for any other outcome.

Maybe it become a semi-autonomous patriarch fief.

Yeah no, the last time that happened the Papal States were the result and there is no way in hell I see the Lascarids repeating that fiasco.

 

[Quinkana]

Unfortunately Andronikos III died as IOTL. Poor ERE can't catch a break...

Yeah, Andronikos III dying as per otl was expected, and it does mean the Lascarids are taking it all then... Anatolia sounds like its going be the battlegrounds when things go beyond 1400 ittl.

Syracuse, June 27th, 1341

Barlaam calling Theodore his serenity is defo laying it thick lmao, and I do think that more and more people would be thinking that the Lascarids are the future of the ERE as time goes on (and as actions like Joanna's terrible reign and Louis of Hungary comes into Naples the Lascarids may very well be the main power in the region too), especially as the ERE falls into civil war and movements from Serbia or from various sultanates (I'd assume that Kantakozenos would do similar things as per otl).

Didymoteichon, October 26th, 1341

It makes sense that this would happen even with a class element, but I think it would very well be a three way civil war as time goes on. Kantakozenos may very well be relying on the Ottomans because he would not be able to pull on the Pronoia due to the aristocracy that are ruling under his power just going off and wasting precious time that Kantakozenos does not have. I do think he would still be pulling on the Aydinids and the Ottomans due to the early phases of the civil war, which will make it really hard for the common folk to support them too.

Then you see have the Lascarids.

The Lascarids would probably have moved up Thessaly and secured the region, and would be fighting against the Serbians (and perhaps the Hungarians) already. If they win those engagements they immediately become the strongest element in ERE politics. The common folk, knowing of their victories and the power they would wield there would definitely flock to them and take over the 'common folk' element of the civil war, while Anna of Savoy and co move to work with the aristocracy. I could very well see Kantakozenos be sidelined in the civil war if things go well for them.

If anything, I definitely see that there's a possibility that the Lascarids just don't fight the Hungarians due to them just not being involved with it at all. If Maria is taken to Syracuse (and not kidnapped, if she's kidnapped, well, the Lascarids will be fighting with the Hungarians) Louis wouldn't be pissed off at her, and she'd probably have a very different life than otl.

Which could have some interesting repercussions for the Orthodox Church with the possibility of an Orthodox "Vatican" being a thing.

It would actually be interesting, especially if Syracuse stays being the heartlands of the potential Lascarid empire. tbf if the Lascarid realms stretch from Southern Italy to western Anatolia it is a possibility that Constantinople becomes a regional capital that controls the chokepoint between Anatolia and the Balkans, and it would still be one of the biggest cities of the Lascarid empire while it controls the Black Sea trade and the connection to Anatolia.

At the moment if the Lascarids took over the empire, the most likely outcome would be the emergence of a duel capital system, at least initially. However, as they implemented their reforms, reorganized the empire, and started reclaiming more lost territory the center of power would gradually but inevitably shift back to Constantinople, the city's strategic position is just too damn good for any other outcome.

I do agree that Constantinople is very much one of the best-situated cities in the world. However, in this Lascarid empire it is part of the periphery even with Western Anatolia being part of the Lascarid's control, not the heartlands. Keeping their Italian possessions under the watchful eyes of the Emperors would be just as important, as Sicily, Aquila and Calabria are their most important regions, while the Ionian Sea is in truth the most important region they need to control, not the Marmara.

And frankly, moving the capital after staying in Constantinople for so long is a good idea. At this point the City has been the capital for over a thousand years. It has been the capital longer than Rome at this point, and changing the capital to Syracuse may be part of the rebirth and return of the Roman Empire in terms of power and influence.

One potentially interesting thing I see is this Empire (post 1600s) may very well be a Black Sea Empire. The Caucasus (under Trebizond and Kartvelia) and especially Crimea would very much be prime colonisation regions.

 

[Project98]

the moment if the Lascarids took over the empire, the most likely outcome would be the emergence of a duel capital system, at least initially. However, as they implemented their reforms, reorganized the empire, and started reclaiming more lost territory the center of power would gradually but inevitably shift back to Constantinople, the city's strategic position is just too damn good for any other outcome.

Yea if they regain the Asian minor territories from the Turks , that's a big if ,if they don't regain those territories Constantinople become a port/fortress city not the capital.
The problem that I see is that the reconquista would be an ideal scenario , because they will have to stay focused on only that front that I don't see happening with sicily and the balkans fronts.
Plus if they regain the crown they would have to reform the state in their manner ,other obstacles.
In conclusion I don't see them regain Asia minor other the coastal regions.

 

[X Oristos]

I think any talk about an orthodox Vatican is moot. The institutions of the ERE have developed for centuries and the concept of an ecclesiastical state is quite alien to both the elite and the general population. Any Byzantine monarch would first cut off his right arm before allowing the Patriarch temporal authority over Constantinople.

Soon the new civil war would start to demostrate what future eras would call a class element...

It might not be the first war that would have a class element. If there is a clash between Angevins and Lascarids over Val di Mazara, I expect the communes to side with the Despotate en mass.

The Sicilians of Val di Mazara have experienced a decade of economic and demographic collapse that will get even worse very soon when the plague arrives. I would bet that compared to OTL ,due the more constant land warfare and the escape of peasants to the Despotate, the situation will be much worse. A lot of this catastrophic mismanagement can be attributed to the political power of the barons. Now a lot of the old barons - the ones that had not sided with Brienne, have been replaced by new Franco-Italian nobles. The Sicilian Wars have been a huge drain to the neapolitcan coffers, even more since the ATL economy is smaller. I expect the new-ish rulling class to be quite exploitative. While I expect that the "Latin Party" barons that sided with the Angevins will retain most if not all of their privileges. Traitors must be rewarded after all.

At the same time, the communes of Val di Mazara have the very successful paradigm of the communes in Val Demone and Val di Noto. Their eastern countrymen are not only prospering but are dominating the Parliament and have become the most important political stakeholder in the Despotate, after the monarch himself.

So, if there will be a war with the Angevins, I expect the communes to rise up with the old cry "Morte ai Francesi". Only this time, it will have a very distinct class element.

 

[Project98]

think any talk about an orthodox Vatican is moot. The institutions of the ERE have developed for centuries and the concept of an ecclesiastical state is quite alien to both the elite and the general population. Any Byzantine monarch would first cut off his right arm before allowing the Patriarch temporal authority over Constantinople.

Probably it would be a unofficial situation , where the emperor move court but the patriarch remains in Constantinople and does not have official Powers but a Hella soft power .
Plus I don't see the patriarch in general moving to Sicily, so I don't see the situation not deteriorating where the patriarch try to push buttons to see where are the limits of his influence.
The best analogy would be the situations that the emperors had with the others patriarchs before the Arab invasions only less about early heresies and more about sacrilegious behaviour social stuff.

 

[Project98]

I have a question but did the cursed kingdom of heaven deed is still associated with the Neapolitan crown as otl ?