The Eagle and The Crows

Apparently (at least according to wikipedia), King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary wanted to have HRE Friedrich III acknowledge Matthias' bastard son, Janos, as Prince Royal of Hungary in exchange for Matthias' renouncing his claims to all/parts of the Austrian hereditary archduchy. However, Matthias died before peace-talks were finalized, and between the nobles Matthias had crushed and the dowager Queen Beatrice d'Aragon, they swiftly removed Janos from the halls of power by forcing him to relinquish most of the estates his father had bestowed on him.

Now, Matthias had also toyed with the idea, at some point, of marrying his son to Bianca Maria Sforza (she who became Holy Roman Empress), however, Queen Beatrice had once again blocked this path, and Janos was married off to a girl from the Frankopan family instead.

What if Matthias had lived to see Friedrich III acknowledge Janos as Prince Royal? Would Friedrich have done this? And even if Friedrich did recognize the boy, would it carry any weight? After all, Friedrich recognized Perkin Warbeck (I think) and it didn't better his chances at becoming king of England.
 
Unfortunately, Janos has little chance of success. Mathias' wife made sure her new husband, Vladislaus Jagiellon, King of Bohemia gets to be the King. In fact, that's all he ruled. Janos had six duchies altogether in his father's Kingdom, a lot of land in the conquered Silesia, being very powerful but the Queen's intrigues made it impossible for him to do anything. Besides, I'm not sure Frederick can be convinced to accept Janos because it would mean he keeps Austria, something which Frederick obviously wanted back. If Janos was say, some sort of a huge war hero who crushed Ottoman armies, German armies and bunch of others than maybe he'd acquire enough power elsewhere to succeed in keeping the throne. I see few other options :(
 
Unfortunately, Janos has little chance of success. Mathias' wife made sure her new husband, Vladislaus Jagiellon, King of Bohemia gets to be the King. In fact, that's all he ruled. Janos had six duchies altogether in his father's Kingdom, a lot of land in the conquered Silesia, being very powerful but the Queen's intrigues made it impossible for him to do anything. Besides, I'm not sure Frederick can be convinced to accept Janos because it would mean he keeps Austria, something which Frederick obviously wanted back. If Janos was say, some sort of a huge war hero who crushed Ottoman armies, German armies and bunch of others than maybe he'd acquire enough power elsewhere to succeed in keeping the throne. I see few other options :(

As I stated above, according to wikipedia, Matthias was willing to give back the Austrian territories to Friedrich in exchange for Fritz acknowledging Janos as Prince Royal.
 
oh sorry I misread. But would Frederick uphold his promise? And even if he did I don't think he'd be of much help to Janos beyond that...maybe if Beatrice dies or if Matthias never marries her in the first place. That way Janos can marry Bianca and probably be in a much better position with the Hungarian nobility. Oh and Matthias could live longer, that would be very helpful. His survival could butterfly away the terrible Croatian defeat at Krbava and the whole Ottoman invasion would do worse, at least IMO.
 
oh sorry I misread. But would Frederick uphold his promise? And even if he did I don't think he'd be of much help to Janos beyond that...maybe if Beatrice dies or if Matthias never marries her in the first place. That way Janos can marry Bianca and probably be in a much better position with the Hungarian nobility. Oh and Matthias could live longer, that would be very helpful. His survival could butterfly away the terrible Croatian defeat at Krbava and the whole Ottoman invasion would do worse, at least IMO.

Well, I would suspect that Fritz acknowledging Janos as Prince Royal would hinge on Matthias living longer, since from what I can make out, the Hungarian king died during the negotiations or somesuch.

But I agree Fritz seems to be an indecisive/slippery/dodgy character - he promises things (willing to crown Charles of Burgundy as king, recognition of Perkin Warbeck etc) but he's not so good on the follow-through
 
Yes, I agree completely. Matthias couldn't have lived on more than a couple of years...It would help to somewhat secure Janos' position and even if Frederick did recognize him as heir, a peace of paper meant little. He'd forget about it the second he marches into Vienna. Of course, matthias was no fool and would've wanted some sort of guarantee but I'm not sure. Perhaps Janos can marry Margaret of Austria after Charles of France refuses her, though I couldn't guess whether or not Frederick would accept that...A bastard marrying an Archduchess? But still, he is getting back Vienna and a strong ally in the east that could save his precious city from the Turks.
 

abc123

Banned
As far as I know, Janos/Ivaniš Korvin ( in Croatian ) had mostly domestic problems, with the Queen and domestic nobility in Hungary refusing him as future King, Frederick was of much less importance there... OTOH, his position in Croatia seems as much stronger than in Hungary itself...

Trouble was, he was in similar position like John Snow and having him become King is like John Snow inherits Winterfell...
 
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Yes, his position was better in Croatia...maybe their nobility was more supportive of Matthias' son who seemed somewhat capable than some Polish prince who got the Bohemian crown. Frederick wouldn't be of much importance but could be useful as someone who recognized him. It would help Janos' legitimacy. And there is Croatian book, though it was mostly fantasy, about some sort of a plot to ensure Janos' succession. There isn't much truth to it but say some nobles form a conspiracy to do something like that and you got it. And another option is the Queen Beatrice changing her mind although that's more unlikely than Frederick recognizing a bastard as a King of Hungary marrying his granddaughter :D
 
Yes, his position was better in Croatia...maybe their nobility was more supportive of Matthias' son who seemed somewhat capable than some Polish prince who got the Bohemian crown. Frederick wouldn't be of much importance but could be useful as someone who recognized him. It would help Janos' legitimacy. And there is Croatian book , though it was mostly fantasy, about some sort of a plot to ensure Janos' succession. There isn't much truth to it but say some nobles form a conspiracy to do something like that and you got it. And another option is the Queen Beatrice changing her mind although that's more unlikely than Frederick recognizing a bastard as a King of Hungary marrying his granddaughter :D

Do you perhaps remember the name/title of the book?
What about some poison slipped to Queen Beatrice - maybe not enough to kill her, but enough to seriously incapacitate her for a while? Perhaps the assassin is caught before he/she can administer the fatal dose, but it takes Beatrice out of the picture long enough so that her influence at court is minimized?
 
Do you perhaps remember the name/title of the book?
What about some poison slipped to Queen Beatrice - maybe not enough to kill her, but enough to seriously incapacitate her for a while? Perhaps the assassin is caught before he/she can administer the fatal dose, but it takes Beatrice out of the picture long enough so that her influence at court is minimized?

The book is named Gordana, written by a 19th century Croatian writer Ivana Brlić-Mažuranić....it's very long and as I said, mostly romantic and fantasy, with the possibility of making Janos a king not the most important thing in the book. But it could give some useful ideas if one would make a TL about Janos. I would like something like that. Mathias is definitely the greatest king of Hungary in the 15th century. And even after, there were few that could challenge him :) His son would do well on the throne.
 

abc123

Banned
The book is named Gordana, written by a 19th century Croatian writer Ivana Brlić-Mažuranić....it's very long and as I said, mostly romantic and fantasy, with the possibility of making Janos a king not the most important thing in the book. But it could give some useful ideas if one would make a TL about Janos. I would like something like that. Mathias is definitely the greatest king of Hungary in the 15th century. And even after, there were few that could challenge him :) His son would do well on the throne.

IMO Matthias and Louis I were greatest kings of Hungary/Croatia between 1102 and 1527.
Agreed about bolded part.;)
 
Not badly overrated, just a little bit. Hungarians like to brag about an empire from the Baltic to the Adriatic and Black Sea. In fact, Louis' rule in Poland was quite limited and his authority over Bulgaria and Moldavia were only nominal, maybe just a little bit higher but that's it. And all his conquests were useless. Dalmatia was retaken by Venice not much later, his campaigns in Naples were fruitless, and he could've done something about the Turks but even if he did it didn't help.
Still, after maybe Matthias he is the greatest King of Hungary. Both Hungary and Croatia developed fast under his rule and even though the plague swept through during his time it didn't seem to have been so bad like in the rest of Europe. Hungary supplied Europe with gold at the time, which is also important and Louis' hold on the throne was incredibly stable, unlike most Hungarian kings. His system of appointing nobles to administer counties for a limited period of time (and not hereditary) was very effective and the kingdom's economy was in a good state. Castles and cities were built rapidly.
That said, the only problem is that all his glorious military campaigns ended with nothing. But it's not his fault. Anyway we're getting off topic here so we should probably stop about Louis
 

abc123

Banned
Not badly overrated, just a little bit. Hungarians like to brag about an empire from the Baltic to the Adriatic and Black Sea. In fact, Louis' rule in Poland was quite limited and his authority over Bulgaria and Moldavia were only nominal, maybe just a little bit higher but that's it. And all his conquests were useless. Dalmatia was retaken by Venice not much later, his campaigns in Naples were fruitless, and he could've done something about the Turks but even if he did it didn't help.
Still, after maybe Matthias he is the greatest King of Hungary. Both Hungary and Croatia developed fast under his rule and even though the plague swept through during his time it didn't seem to have been so bad like in the rest of Europe. Hungary supplied Europe with gold at the time, which is also important and Louis' hold on the throne was incredibly stable, unlike most Hungarian kings. His system of appointing nobles to administer counties for a limited period of time (and not hereditary) was very effective and the kingdom's economy was in a good state. Castles and cities were built rapidly.
That said, the only problem is that all his glorious military campaigns ended with nothing. But it's not his fault. Anyway we're getting off topic here so we should probably stop about Louis

Agreed. A lot of truth in your post, but I would say that he can hardly be responsible for things that happened after his death- it isn't his fault that he had no son. ;)
 
I'm curious, could a surviving Janos (or his son), throw his hat in the ring and attempt to be elected king in OTL's 1526? Above it is mentioned that he's arguably one of the more powerful men in Hungary (since perhaps after Beatrice is divorced and banished, a survivng Janos can regain some of the territory he lost obviously AFTER Laszlo has an heir of course.), so could he or his son (if they survive TTL Mohacs) fill Zapolya's shoes?
 
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