The Dragon breathes fire: Welsh football success.

[Barbaican]

As most people are aware, Wales' only major football tournament appearance came at the 1958 World Cup in Sweden, with the team being knocked out at the quarterfinals by eventual winners Brazil.

Since then, there have been qualification near misses for Wales, most notably Euro 1976, Argentina 1978, Mexico 1986, USA 1994 and Euro 2004.

How do people think Wales would have fared at those tournaments? How would their qualification have had impacted on other teams at these tournaments? How would the national football team be viewed in the public imagination compardd to the rugby team? How would these tournament appearances affect the shape of the national side today?

 

[Fletch]

Really, the only answer in the long run is a stronger domestic game. A couple of professional clubs playing in the English league would always lend to them having such a poor Home Nations record, if you want to garner an idea of the strength over the period you quote, or even earlier.

Now, if you had a Welsh League set up post-WW2, with all clubs in Wales playing, this would help.

 

[Protest The Hero]

Been debating something similar with people on here lately, definitely post WW2 promoting and establishing solid firm Welsh League in the major areas.

No real strength in depth unfortunately compared to England so trying to keep the league condensed to teams in bigger areas with smaller towns playing under more 'regional' names.

I guess my dream scenario would be a complete and utter revamp of the Welsh League system and make terms more representative of their counties/regions. Football is tribal. And what is more tribal than rather being the next town over vs next town over is county vs county.

But a strong emphasis on football post second world war is definitely your only real chance given the obvious need for morale boost across the UK. A resurgent and strong national league would benefit from support and would continue to garner a good following with more people playing. The northern half of the country would be more interested at first despite the south being the larger population base.

Euro 2004 still stings a bit to me. Cheated by the goddamn Ruskies. 'golden Generation' coming through. Just hope we don't get pillaged due to the 'home rule' where players schooled in another home nation are eligible for that nation. Pure bollocks to me.

 

[Fletch]

snip.

Your mistake is a common one. You shouldn't be comparing the Welsh League with the English League, but with the Scottish, Belgian, Dutch or the Swedish leagues. A comparison of scale would be the only way to go. Wales could have had a relatively strong league. Every one of those leagues I have mentioned have had a few European competition winners.

If Wales had a post-war league set up in 1945/46, they could have prospered. You could have seen Cardiff, Swansea or Wrexham in European finals. Hell, if Dundee United or Slovan Bratislava could get to European finals, there would be no reason why a leading Welsh club couldn't.

I would say the way to have done it was a twelve team top division with a twelve team division below that with a pyramid below.

​

 

[Protest The Hero]

Your mistake is a common one. You shouldn't be comparing the Welsh League with the English League, but with the Scottish, Belgian, Dutch or the Swedish leagues. A comparison of scale would be the only way to go. Wales could have had a relatively strong league. Every one of those leagues I have mentioned have had a few European competition winners.

If Wales had a post-war league set up in 1945/46, they could have prospered. You could have seen Cardiff, Swansea or Wrexham in European finals. Hell, if Dundee United or Slovan Bratislava could get to European finals, there would be no reason why a leading Welsh club couldn't.

I would say the way to have done it was a twelve team top division with a twelve team division below that with a pyramid below.

​

The problem is it's hard not to compare ourselves with that league given that teams from Wales play in their system BUT you are right I will contest. I think your idea would work, I could see a potentially closed two tier league with team beneath serving as feeder teams a la regional rugby but if not the two tier league then pyramid system would be very interesting.

But back to the OP, I think that the 1958 generation for me was THE best we had. Since then we've had great players let down by poor management and poor players playing alongside a couple of good players.

I would give anything to expunge our Bobby Gold era. FML

 

[Geordie]

While it may not be ideal politically, would an alternative solution be keeping some of the stronger non-league Welsh teams in the English system?

There was a time when teams such as Colwyn Bay had good reputations in English amateur competitions. In OTL, the WFA applied pressure in order to 'persuade' them to leave the FA's league and cup competitions. Fleetwood have given a decent example of what a local man with a million or so spare can do with a club at that level. If two or three teams get lucky with a chairman, who wants to concentrate on finding and growing local talent (like Crewe did under Dario Gradi), then a club that can reach the Football League has a reputation for finding and developing, good young Welsh players. Good enough players for teams in the Championship and Premiership to start looking at.

Maybe one club manages to use the founding of the Conference to make a go at it (when a lot less money would produce such results), another one or two catches the upsurge at the end of the eighties into the early nineties? This gives a blueprint to copy into the 21st century, although there may be an equal number of clubs who attempt such an uplift and fail. Having 6 or 7 teams in the English football league, with maybe another couple at conference level, could help in developing Welsh talent.

Is this easier to achieve than a Welsh League as strong as OTL's Scottish one? The problem any Welsh League runs into is that Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and maybe Newport depending on timing, are unlikely to want to jump ship from the FA's own setup, and it'll be very hard to force them...

 

[merlin]

I think Welsh Football has been ruled too much by politics - in that it has gone the independence route.

While, Scotland can manage - with many more bigger towns. A isolated Welsh League is not viable as regards producing international talent.
So the Wales team will therefore have to make do with Welsh born who play for Cardiff or Swansea, or who can claim a Welsh grandparent - but who have little or no chance or playing for England!

IMHO what is needed is that the Welsh League structure becomes part of the English League system with promotions available. This would draw attention to talented players currently in the Welsh League who could progress elsewhere - perhaps to the Championship/Premier League!

Alternatively, as a stepping stone a Non-league Anglo-Welsh Cup - and if Welsh Teams are more successful than expected - then into the FA Cup. Again the exposure given leads to transfers to higher league clubs increasing the pool of talent available for internationals.