The Domestication of Hominids

How would ancient domestication of (alternate) hominids - on par or earlier that that of wolves/dogs - affect the formation of Homo Sapiens societies?

Would we be more or less adverse to slavery in general?
How would medical science develop?
How would our selfstatus in religion and evolutionary science be affected by a well known close relative?
etc
etc
 
I have a hard time with this. By "hominids", I suppose you mean pre-human, clearly non-human, species like australopothecines, H. hablis, or H. erectus, not early modern humans or Neanderthals.

The entire concept of animal domestication (with dogs) did not occur with modern humans until long after all other homind variants were either extinct or blended into H. sapiens through interbreeding. I think it is very unlikely that "domestication" of hominds woud occur in the same way. For one, domesticated dogs bring benefits such as superior smell, hearing, endurance,and sharp teeth that human groups wouldn't have otherwise. Domestic H. erectus or australopithecines would just be stupider and less handy versions of modern humans, but too intelligent to be easily trusted. Keepiing captives alive as domesticates would just waste resources. Eating or having sex with them makes more sense from a paleolithiuc perspective.

The other possibility is to have much more advanced human societies (bronze age and up) come into contract with surviving pre-human populations in the past 5,000 years or so. In this situation, domestication (or enslavement) of these creatures would make a lot of sense to preindustrial civilizations. I think Turtledove's "A Different Flesh" does a pretty good idea of exploring the possible results of this alternative, in the context of the discovery of an Americas with only H. erectus and not modern humans in it.
 
Admittedly before we are H Erectus it is unlikely that we'd form that kind of relationship that would last evolutionary speaking.
But I do see it possible pre African Exodus (ie pre60kya) for us to "domesticate" [1] or enslave a hominid more "advanced" than the current great apes.

They'd definitely be an advantage in the home though they'd be more advantageous agriculturally so perhaps within the last 10000 years it's more likely to occur.


[1] as has been pointed out in a PM that isn't quite the right word
 
But I do see it possible pre African Exodus (ie pre60kya) for us to "domesticate" [1] or enslave a hominid more "advanced" than the current great apes.

Since this is well before the first incontrovertable evidence of any animal domestication (dogs), this is pretty unlikely. Also, at least prior to the origin of civilization, animals were generally domesticated for food, as beasts of burden, or because they offered unique abilities that helped paleolithic human socities hunt or gather food - or a combination of all three. I have a hard time seeing prehuman hominids fitting that mold. I see no obvious reason that nomadic human hunters and gatherers would see prehuman hominids anything other than competitors or prey animals. Unlike dogs or draft animals, they offer no skills and abilities that humans don't already have, they are far too intelligent (and probably too aggressive as well) to be easily incorporated into simple human societies as pets, and are probably not intelligent enough to function well as slaves.

Prehuman hominds are basically just really inferior people. As stewacide says, if you want slaves, just enslave people who can fully use your language, communicate with you, and function in human society. If you want animals to lift and pull loads, domesticate oxen, horses, dogs, etc. If you want hunting companions who can do things you can't, use dogs, other carnivores, falcons, or pigs. If you want readily available and easily kept animals to eat, use just about any of the above and then some. I just don't see paleolithic humans taking the effort to try any of that with hominids.

Only much later, when human civilization reached the point it can absorb large numbers of essentially ornamental or status-giving domestic animals might effort be expended to capture, breed, train, and cajole prehuman hominids to provide entertainment or highly specialized - but unnecessary - functions. Think cats, but different. Imagine Cleopatra sitting on her throne with two chained H. erectus at her feet, shaved and clothed like gods, trained to fight to the death for Antony's entertainment after providing her with sexual pleasure.
 
I could see homonids caught in the Roman period being used for unsanitary tasks, moving night soil, collecting dead animals, chipping away in mines at rocks that are clearly marked by a human overseer.
Any earlier in society and they'd probably be killed or kept as curiousities.
 
I could see homonids caught in the Roman period being used for unsanitary tasks, moving night soil, collecting dead animals, chipping away in mines at rocks that are clearly marked by a human overseer.
Any earlier in society and they'd probably be killed or kept as curiousities.

Again, why not just employ slaves to do this? They'd be more intelligent and presumable easier to control. Unless the primitive hominids bring something unique to the table why bother?

Now, perhaps, you could have neanderthals used for brute-strength tasks and war fighting, but then they seem very likely to just kill their overseers / enslave us!
 
I did hear about a scenario where Homo Erectus makes it to America and along with a lot of the Mega Fauna survives untill being discovered by Homo Sapiens around the 14th 15th century.

They get enslaved, though their existance does help bring about a theory of evolution about 200 years earlier.
 
Again, why not just employ slaves to do this? They'd be more intelligent and presumable easier to control. Unless the primitive hominids bring something unique to the table why bother?

Now, perhaps, you could have neanderthals used for brute-strength tasks and war fighting, but then they seem very likely to just kill their overseers / enslave us!

It gets around the Law?
 
I did hear about a scenario where Homo Erectus makes it to America and along with a lot of the Mega Fauna survives untill being discovered by Homo Sapiens around the 14th 15th century.

They get enslaved, though their existance does help bring about a theory of evolution about 200 years earlier.

I think this is problematic to do plausibly, since it would both require a much more cold-tolerant homo e., and would need to avoid several easily-accomplished settlements of the Americas via Alaska.
 

Jasen777

Donor
Again, why not just employ slaves to do this? They'd be more intelligent and presumable easier to control.

It's possible that they could be easier to control if some measure of devotion to sapiens can be breed into them like we have with dogs (though that's getting a bit icky).
 
Food for thought: Where is the borderline between a pet or domesticated animal and a slave? Are modern chimpanzees, for example, close enough to human that keeping them as pets is arguably enslavement?
 
Since this is well before the first incontrovertable evidence of any animal domestication (dogs), this is pretty unlikely. Also, at least prior to the origin of civilization, animals were generally domesticated for food, as beasts of burden, or because they offered unique abilities that helped paleolithic human socities hunt or gather food - or a combination of all three. I have a hard time seeing prehuman hominids fitting that mold. I see no obvious reason that nomadic human hunters and gatherers would see prehuman hominids anything other than competitors or prey animals. Unlike dogs or draft animals, they offer no skills and abilities that humans don't already have, they are far too intelligent (and probably too aggressive as well) to be easily incorporated into simple human societies as pets, and are probably not intelligent enough to function well as slaves.

Prehuman hominds are basically just really inferior people. As stewacide says, if you want slaves, just enslave people who can fully use your language, communicate with you, and function in human society. If you want animals to lift and pull loads, domesticate oxen, horses, dogs, etc. If you want hunting companions who can do things you can't, use dogs, other carnivores, falcons, or pigs. If you want readily available and easily kept animals to eat, use just about any of the above and then some. I just don't see paleolithic humans taking the effort to try any of that with hominids.

Only much later, when human civilization reached the point it can absorb large numbers of essentially ornamental or status-giving domestic animals might effort be expended to capture, breed, train, and cajole prehuman hominids to provide entertainment or highly specialized - but unnecessary - functions. Think cats, but different. Imagine Cleopatra sitting on her throne with two chained H. erectus at her feet, shaved and clothed like gods, trained to fight to the death for Antony's entertainment after providing her with sexual pleasure.

I'll at least concede the palaeolithic but don't write off the neolithic societies as being unable to do this.

Again, why not just employ slaves to do this? They'd be more intelligent and presumable easier to control. Unless the primitive hominids bring something unique to the table why bother?

Now, perhaps, you could have neanderthals used for brute-strength tasks and war fighting, but then they seem very likely to just kill their overseers / enslave us!

But I'm not talking Neanderthals but more H habilis types.

Read Lovecraft's The Rats in the Walls for one possible answer.;)
Well that was one idea ;)

Food for thought: Where is the borderline between a pet or domesticated animal and a slave? Are modern chimpanzees, for example, close enough to human that keeping them as pets is arguably enslavement?

Indeed. You raise some good questions.
It's one of the reasons for my OP and whether having a domesticated/enslaved hominid/hominin would blur the line even more or make it more visible.
 
There is a huge difference between domesticated hominids and enslaved hominids.

Slaves simply don't have the same rights as free peoples (although they could have some rights or protections depending on the society). It is a legal distinction, and that's all.

Domestication implies that the species evolution is controlled by humanity and done to serve our needs. It means evolutionary traits are being selected - consciously or not - in order to develop the animal into something we find more useful. Traits could be for strength, docility, fertility, speed, endurance, aesthetics, instinct to do some particular job, or anything else.

Domestication requires A LOT of work. It takes generations of selecting for breeding to get the traits you need. For animals, one person could control breeding for several generations especially if they live long enough. For hominids who have lifespans similar to humans? Much more difficult.

Second, hominids likely compete for the same food resources as people. Animals often consume food unwanted for humans or unfit for humans. They can also be eaten as food if times get bad. Hominids are direct competitors.

Third, hominids would be very dangerous to people. You can control animals because they are limited in intelligence. Hominids are very intelligent. Maybe not intelligent as humans, but much more intelligent than animals. People wouldn't be able to treat hominids like they do animals and get away with it. The hominids would fight back or rebel.

Fourth, most species that are domesticated are first tamed. They are useful as they immediately are. Only later are these tamed species domesticated. While an initial state of slavery might seem to similar to being "tamed", I don't think it is. Going back to the above, hominids are too intelligent and too dangerous to become tamed. Going beyond enslavement in an attempt to domesticate them would likely provoke rebellions that result in the deaths of either the masters or the captives.

The amount of work necessary to domesticate hominids is probably too much for ancient societies. The effort put into that would be much more profitable if put into other goals.
 
There is a huge difference between domesticated hominids and enslaved hominids...

...Domestication implies that the species evolution is controlled by humanity and done to serve our needs.

I see this as merely an academic distinction. Animals that are not selectively bred (such as zebras, reindeer, elephants and probably even camels) can still be used to serve human needs in pretty much exactly the same way as animals that meet this technical definition of "domestication."

So, this seems like pretty arbitrary place to draw the line.
 
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