The Discord That Follows
- Thread starter SilverSwimmer
- Start date
http://www.gifbin.com/982167
Very well done.
I can see where the Turks are coming from (the ANZAC forces felt similar after Gallipoli.
Also good work with the name drop.
I wonder what the treaty to end to the war and the post war world will look like.
Very well done.
I can see where the Turks are coming from (the ANZAC forces felt similar after Gallipoli.
Also good work with the name drop.
I wonder what the treaty to end to the war and the post war world will look like.
SilverSwimmer
Great to see an update. It sounds like although there might be formal peace many areas are going to see little real peace.
Also there are going to be problems both by the victors in how they will deal with Germany and other defeated enemy powers and in Russia with how that country deals with such a costly defeat.
Steve
Great to see an update. It sounds like although there might be formal peace many areas are going to see little real peace.
Also there are going to be problems both by the victors in how they will deal with Germany and other defeated enemy powers and in Russia with how that country deals with such a costly defeat.Steve
The Italian Revolution
The collapse of the wartime coalition in Italy and the cease-fire that occurred in July resulted in chaos gripping the entire nation. The cease-fire and resulting treaty had allowed for an occupation of northern Italy by the French and Austrians, in order to let troops and supplies to travel on land, instead of having to travel around the boot by sea. However, the manpower needs of the Austrians when the Russian offensive in Galicia began, left France taking the lion's share of the responsibility in occupying the country
Meanwhile, the internal situation in Italy reached almost anarchic levels. Hyperinflation left many without a way to feed themselves. Riots calling for bread distribution exploded across many major cities. Looting was a commonplace, but the government was in no position to do anything. The Socialist Party had walked out on Parliament under the leadership of Achille Marinetti, who had gone up north to shore up support among his main base of followers, and possibly the French as well. The rest of the old wartime coalition began to do the same, sensing the Socialist were planning a forceful takeover of the government.
Achille Marinetti
They weren’t wrong, but the Socialists were just as disorganized as the rest of the country. Upon returning to the north Achille realized that no laws would be upheld had it not been for the French. The Italian police were non-existent, and government officials were powerless, if they were even still working at all. Meanwhile, the French had realized the quagmire they had gotten themselves into. They had taken their territorial concessions, but now they were stuck policing an entire part of a previously hostile country. Not to mention, they were beginning to see their own manpower problems develop, and needed soldiers in Germany.
The French manpower problem became Marinetti’s saving grace. His dealings with the French authorities, and on a few occasions, Clemenceau himself, led to Marinetti setting up basic institutions in the north to begin restoring order with. Marinetti used French monetary support to begin open bread dispensaries, and build up a militia force as the French military withdrew. Marinetti also tore down the old local governments, replacing them with local councils and in places that resisted him, Militia leaders. By the middle of 1922, he had in place a suitable state in northern Italy supported by the skeleton French occupying force there and French money and supplies. With the head of his administration located in Turin, he looked south the consolidate his rule.
The anti-Marinetti force consisted of many factions, not unlike the anti-Natsy forces of the Iberian Civil War.The Rome government shored up support among conservatives, scaring them that the “Northern traitor” would confiscate Church property and kill the Pope, even though this was not the case. Although Marinetti was not a religious man, he knew that many of his followers still were pious. Nevertheless, it did allow the government in Rome some sort of base of support, and grew from there. It was a shaky alliance at best, and led to disputes. One point of dispute was how to deal with the Marinetti supporters. Some, like King Victor Emmanuel III wished to kill the idea in the cradle, but others realized that France would protect its investment and not allow an attack on the north. The only way was to wait for the Italian Republic (Officially declared on July 30th, 1922), to make its move, and destroy the Republic outside its base of support.
However, this meant waiting, and time was on Marinetti’s side. The “border” between the two competing factions was like brackish water. There was no defining line, only a mixture of supporters. It was a strange existence. One day the town would be under the jurisdiction of the Turin government, other days it may be under that of Rome. It all really depended on which militia was closer. When the two met, a brief, violent exchange would be had, but once they were gone, the town returned to normal.This reality meant that supplies, and weapons, could be transported rather easily throughout Italy, heavily favoring the Italian Republic. As weapons streamed over the Alps from France into north Italy, those in turn would be sent to supporters in the south. The entity there, called the Fronte di liberazione Italiano, or the Italian Liberation Front, were a growing force, fighting bushwhacker style against the Roman government. These militias were well-equipped, and highly stealthy, able to fight one night, and blend in during the day. Over the summer and fall of 1922 these partisans did heavy damage to the Roman government’s credibility as a power that could sustain order. Even worse, some local governments did business with the Fronte, using them to raid government convoys for extra food and supplies, in exchange for housing.
Members of the FLI in Italy, 1923
The surrender of Germany in the early weeks of 1923 gave France more of an opportunity to invest in Marinetti. Sensing the shift in power, Achille, now known as “Padre,” to the north Italian people, ordered that action be taken against the Roman government. He sent out orders to the IFL to begin Operation Gladio, a general insurrection meant to disrupt the infrastructure of the government in Rome, allowing the Italian Republic to gain the upperhand. The Operation would start on March 1st, with the general offensive coming a week later.
While the Roman government had sound intelligence on Marinetti’s general offensive from their sympathizers, they were completely caught off guard by the organized revolution brought on by the FLI. Bridges were blown, barracks were attacked, and ambushes set up slowing down Rome’s mobilization to meet Padre Marinetti’s upcoming move south. And the strike was right on cue. After a week of posturing, declaring that the people of South Italy yearned for stability and prosperity, forces in the North moved to attack La Spezia, which had been held as an enclave in the North with the help of the Italian Navy. The Italian Revolution had begun.
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SilverSwimmer
Well as one war ends another begins. I can see Britain and Austria opposing Italy becoming another Natsy state, especially since they will see it as a satellite of France. Doubt they will interfere directly as probably too war-weary, coupled with the fact they in turn need to handle the occupation of Germany and whatever happens there, plus keeping an eye on Russia. However I could see a lot of war-surplus material making its way to the Rome government once the allied states realise the danger.
This could be a long and messy conflict for the Italians or over fairly quickly depending on how well the socialist 1st strike goes.
Steve
Well as one war ends another begins.
I can see Britain and Austria opposing Italy becoming another Natsy state, especially since they will see it as a satellite of France. Doubt they will interfere directly as probably too war-weary, coupled with the fact they in turn need to handle the occupation of Germany and whatever happens there, plus keeping an eye on Russia. However I could see a lot of war-surplus material making its way to the Rome government once the allied states realise the danger.This could be a long and messy conflict for the Italians or over fairly quickly depending on how well the socialist 1st strike goes.
Steve
Well at the very least the big war is winding down. I wonder what Russia will have to endure? Is Britain still aiming for Balance of Power? Still I don'y think Austria and the Ottomans are in a position to take much from the Tsar.
For that matter I could see significant opposition to the Ottomans getting anything in light of their treatment of the Arabs. As one boarder mentioned, putting more minorities under Ottoman ruler could be a disaster.
So Russia is more likely to lose big to Japan and Britain.
Italy is exploding. i doubt this will be allowed to resolve quickly. The spread of Natsy influence will be unacceptable to many. Particularly after the consequences of letting France go Natsy. Spain and Portugal in particular may intervene, having not entered the Great War.
My guess is another partition. Possibly the Savoys retreating to Sicily and Sardinia supported by their navy. A new Papal state, small, created because the Natsy's do not want to punch a hornets nest. And Kaiser Francis retaking what Austria lost last time.
I am guessing Rusia will face a mire subtle power crisis. The Duma and military elite competing for increased power, and those who still look to the Tsar caught between the two 'modernizing' forces.
For that matter I could see significant opposition to the Ottomans getting anything in light of their treatment of the Arabs. As one boarder mentioned, putting more minorities under Ottoman ruler could be a disaster.
So Russia is more likely to lose big to Japan and Britain.
Italy is exploding. i doubt this will be allowed to resolve quickly. The spread of Natsy influence will be unacceptable to many. Particularly after the consequences of letting France go Natsy. Spain and Portugal in particular may intervene, having not entered the Great War.
My guess is another partition. Possibly the Savoys retreating to Sicily and Sardinia supported by their navy. A new Papal state, small, created because the Natsy's do not want to punch a hornets nest. And Kaiser Francis retaking what Austria lost last time.
I am guessing Rusia will face a mire subtle power crisis. The Duma and military elite competing for increased power, and those who still look to the Tsar caught between the two 'modernizing' forces.
I also wonder how the mutinies will be dealt with, will Russia view it as a one off event or is it something there armed forces will look at more closely.
I also think the Austrians will create a new Poland with British support, as a buffer with the Russians.
I wonder how much France will gain in the post war settlement.
Also how will the US react to this
Edit: I also think that some of the countries in the Caucasus will be made indepent of Russia, though perhaps not directly integrated into the Ottoman state.
I wonder what will happen to the Ottomans, will they reform a lot or a little?
I also think the Austrians will create a new Poland with British support, as a buffer with the Russians.
I wonder how much France will gain in the post war settlement.
Also how will the US react to this
Edit: I also think that some of the countries in the Caucasus will be made indepent of Russia, though perhaps not directly integrated into the Ottoman state.
I wonder what will happen to the Ottomans, will they reform a lot or a little?
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Russia will be doing some serious soul searching. Later they may take pride in walking away defeated but not beaten unlike the others, but for now it is just defeat. The fact Russia was not utterly beaten will mke the situation more complicated, enough of the establishment will remain credible that it will be more politics and less gunfire i expect.
The Tsar at least can claim it was hardly his fault as he came to throne late in the game. If the Duma goes bitter factional he could retain a good buit of power by casting himself as above it.
The mutinies will be one of very many issues.
France will likely also endorse such a plan. Though oppose Austrian dominance.
Definitely all they lost last time at least. I forget do the British or French occupy Sardinia? I think there will be a desire to contain the Natsys in London, and most definitely in Vienna. I imagine that will translate as teaming up to limit their influence in post war Germany, and a proxy war in Italy.
I doubt they will react much at all. Just another war of Europeans killing each other to redraw the map with political radicalism rearing its ugly head. Other than possible concern and scorn towards the Arab situation, I think most Americans will be patting themselves on the back at steering clear of the mess.
What is the situation in China now? Last I recall we had four Emperors and a peck of warlords running amok.
I think Russia could go either very inwards with a lot of soul searching, questioning why the war was fought. Or They may go looking for revenge and team up with the French or the Americans.
Or they may end up allying with the UK.
America does not like the UK and I think Mexico and Argentina will have grown their industry as a result of the war so the US may not like that.
SilverSwimmer
Well as one war ends another begins.
This could be a long and messy conflict for the Italians or over fairly quickly depending on how well the socialist 1st strike goes.
Steve
The peace talks will reflect the growing animosity between the growing Fascist movement and the Natsy French attempting to spread their region of influence. Italy will only add to it. However, the French are currently much less war weary. Austria took a real beating and the UK is currently kneedeep in the Middle East. Theyll have little choice but to give the French a good deal of their war claims.
Russia will be punished, but not to the extent of Germany. I foresee some buffer states and a whole lot of reparations. Russia was taken down a peg but not enough to keep it down forever. The bigger problem in Russia is who takes the blame for the loss, and who comes out on top of Russias own little game of thrones. Will it be the Duma, the Czar, or a third party?
The Ottomans will be recieving pretty much squat from the resulting peace treaty with the exception of reparations. They are lucky to still be a country, and Britain is keeping a watchful eye over them.
China deserves an update and there will be one, lets just say the situation is still as chaotic as it was before. The United States also deserves one.
As for the British and Balance of Power...I think at first they will try and use that approach, but I think its becoming increasingly clear that it is an outdated notion with the rise of political radicalism on the continent. Instead I think it will retreat from the continent and focus on its Empire, or choose a side and contain the faction it opposes. Hell it might try and do a little of both.
The Election of 1925
What my opponent has failed to understand...what he has failed to comprehend, is that the chief business of America is business.
And what you cannot understand you cannot make prosper." ~Caleb Walters
Many historians say Thomas Henderson could have been a great President. However, they also make sure to emphasize the could have. If anything, he was a victim of his predessors, both charismatic individuals that the people followed on a whim, while he was more soft-spoken and cool. The perpetual political pendulum swing of the American people did not help either, who by thier fifth term of a Republican president, had a serious case of incumbent fatigue.
This was shown during the fight over the progressive income tax. The United States had been in desperate need of money since the shooting war in Europe started in 1919. The Republican policy of preparedness took a toll on the bank accounts, with annual deficits increased at a staggering rate. While the economy had rebounded since 1919, it still wasnt giving the United States the revenue it needed. And so, Henderson spoke out in support of an income tax amendment. This actually was not very controversial. Many mid-western Democrats and the few elected Whigs were in support of an income tax, because it was an easier way to tax farmers, whose incomes varied highly, and whose property taxes were too high. Roosevelt Republicans also favored the act since it would allow them to pay for America's protection against foreign interests.
The 17th Amendment, which stated that the federal government could lay and collect taxes on incomes without apportionment passed in 1923, after a year and a half of negotiations in Congress and amongst the states. This is when the real debate began however. Republicans had been looking to implement a progressive tax, while the opposition was vehemently against it, preferring a small flat tax. The debate was a fierce one, but eventually the Republican party won out, and the bill was signed into law. The inital tax rates were extremely low by todays standards, but the extra money filled the federal coffers, producing the first surplus in almost a decade.
The surplus was helped by an increase in economic activity. The war was finally over, and America was increasingly the world's factory. Reconstruction efforts all over Europe bought American finished goods, and in places like Germany and Austria, American motowagens could be seen on the streets, filling the market niche left by the damaged industry. But while America was becoming increasingly tied to the economies of the world, Americans believed that they still should keep their distance. Stories from the war about horrible atrocities shook nerves in many Americans, especially those who were first or second generation immigrants. They were glad America was spared the decisions of war, and that the continent did not become another Europe. President Henderson did not agree, wishing to engage what he liked to call "The New World Order," instead of trying to shy away from it. He envisioned a global version of the League of American States, that promoted peace and diplomatic solutions over military force. But his idea was farfetched, and in some cases the speeches he made on the subject became laughing stock to many Americans.
And so 1925 rolled around, and the race was on again. The Whigs, who had dropped the New from the name once it became clear they were here to stay, had gained a significant congressional following. Not yet did they overtake the Democrats as lead opposition, but they were a force to be reckoned with, after the previous congressional elections and some mutinies from the Democratic Party.
As in 1921, the Whig Party nominated Caleb Walters, the former Governor of Massachusetts that had lost in a nail biter. His campaign was summarized in his slogan "The business of America is business." Riding the bull market wave sweeping America, he decried the progressive tax, instead asking to implement a flat income tax, while decreasing property taxes and military spending. He also advocated reducing tarriffs, to allow more trade to flow between the United States and the rebuilding European countries. This attracted farmers, even those who had previously supported the progressive tax, because the upbeat economy and the inflation of food prices resulted in them paying higher income tax rates.
He used President Henderson's views on foreign policy and the recent trend in radical governments popping up in Europe to his advantage, warning America could become subject to such influences should the United States become entangled in European affairs. His point was underlined by using examples like Italy, which helped him with Catholic voters, a weak point in his 1921 campaign.
Using his wide base of support, the former Governor overcame the speedbump of the loss of conservative Democrats, who nominated the forgetful Georgian Howard Fielding, and won the election over Henderson. This cemented the Whigs as a major American political party, and ended the Republican hegemony on the Presidency. But no one could foresee the challenges Walters would face during his time in the Oval Office.