Inscriptions show the language very much alive as late as the 5th century, and most Latin speakers in the region were very much bilingual and tended to speak Punic at home--it actually assimilated a lot of the non-Punic languages like Numidian during the Roman era. I'm not certain as to its state in the 7th century (most books on Punic epigraphy focus on the Roman era and Late Antiquity), but it couldn't have been too reduced, although I think barring the emergence of a new heresy (or resurgence of Donatism or Arianism) to make a new African church, the language would end up moribund, although it would take longer to fade away than Gaulish in France.
The Desert Sands- an alternate history from the 7th century AD
- Thread starter TheSlovakPatriot
- Start date
You know, as an Arab, and from the Bani Taghlib Tribe, We would more likely be Mostly of Christian or Jewish faith. With more influence from these faiths and no rise of Islam, We would have become either Christians or Jews. My Tribe used to be from Himyar, a Jewish kingdom in Yemen, we then migrated north through Arabia and eventually converted to Christianity. Then around 1000s we became Muslims.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Well it seems that the Punic language could be spoken in the "backwaterô parts of Tunisia at the time..like maybe Theveste, Capsa,western Tripolitania and soutrhern Byzacena...
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Part five: An empire falling apart
Constans II. was an unopular ruler. Trying to promote religious unity, he forbade all debate about religious matters. Another matter were the advancing Slavs, pouring into the Balkans. At one point in 662, he decided to move the throne to Syracuse, which had a more central position. Hence he could better control the remaining areas of Corsica, Sardinia, Balearic Islands, Spania, Italy and Zeugitana. Hoping to regain at least southern Italy, he attacked the Lombards in Benevento. However, he was defeated, and later assassinated in Syracuse in 668.
The Empire got a nrew Emperor: Constantine IV. The controversy over Monothelism was peaking. The "Orthodox" population were mainly in Anatolia and the Balkans, while Monothelites were in Phoenicia and the Levantine coast. This area was a strategic place, and losing it would mean losing hope over reconquerring the whole of Levant.
The Balkans were now mostly in hands of Bulgars, a Turkic people have established themselves. The northern border defences were defeating, with large groups of Slavic tribes migrating as far southwards as Thessalonica.However, the Empire had too few soldiers to deal with them. Tired of losing the wars against the Arabs, the Empire retreated, and tried to rebuild its strength within its shrinking borders.
In the Levant, two Arab kingdoms existed: Judea based around roughly Galilee and West Bank, but also encompassing the former Roman province of Arabia) with its capital in Jerusalem was led by and Ebionite dynasty who established their Patriarch in Jerusalem. Also, Jews were favoured and many returned to Judea. The second realm was established in Syria (east of the Orontes). The capital of this kingdom was Damascus.This kingdom was a Miaphysite (Syrian Jacobite) one , however, the distant provinces of the kingdom (Osroene, Commagene, Turabdin) were ruled by independent local nobles.
The kingdom in Syria was focusing its attention on conquerring Antioch, something the Rhomaics could not afford. In 674, an Aramaic army set westwards towards the city of Antioch. The Syrian king, Nahir I. marched towards Antioch with some 15 000 men. The commander of Antioch , a centrain Mikhael of Apamea was in charge of the defenses.
The Syrian army arrived from the north, near the Eastern Gate. However, a small detachment crossed Mount Silippios and approached from the south. They arso stopped the water supplies through the aqueduct. King Nahir wanted also to secure the western side , but the defenders always retook control of the western bank of the Orontes. The siege was going on for three months, until the Imperial forces landed at Alexandretta and were advancing towards the city. However, at this time the Syrians managed to breach the walls in the northern part of city and conquerred the area up till river Parmenios. However, when the imperial amry reached the place, the Syrian amry was utterly defeated.
Regarding Egypt, payments from Alexandria were arriving less frequent then expected, and contained less grain or gold than expected. Yaqub used the first years of his rule in Egypt at first to appease Constantinople and consolidate his realm. In second part of his reign , he attacked Cyrenaica (652). His succssor, Yousef , who assumed the throne in 661, proclaimed himself Pharaoh of Egypt and decided to take control of the lands eastwards. In 675, right after the Battle of Antioch, he marched eastwards against the kingdom of Judea. The Emperor was not happy when he received the news, but could do nothing. In his first campaign, Yousef secured the Sinai and Negev.
Meanwhile, Phoenicia revolted in 677. The center of the rebellion was Qadisha valley, and soon the rebels took control of most of coastal areas south of Laodicea. The rebellion was not to be crushed, as the rebels used ambush tactics and nver really went on the open battlefield.
When Justinian II. assumed the throne in 685, the Balkans were in a bad state. Slavs were raiding as far south as Sparta. They were to be taught a lesson. In a quichk campaign, Thessalonica, Thessaly and Pelopnessus as well as Attica were secured. Defeated Slavs were resettled to eastern Aantolia, where they were to serve as militias on the troublesome border with the Aramaics.
The west was left alone. The governor of Septum was not controllable at this time and the province of Spania has been reincorporated into the Visigothic kingdom some 50 years earlier. The priority was now to secure the Balkans, which were the direct hinterland of the city of Constantinople itself. Another campaign 690s cleared the Slavs from Thrace. His reign seemed to be a successful one... until a man named Leontius organized a coup....
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Part five: An empire falling apart
Constans II. was an unopular ruler. Trying to promote religious unity, he forbade all debate about religious matters. Another matter were the advancing Slavs, pouring into the Balkans. At one point in 662, he decided to move the throne to Syracuse, which had a more central position. Hence he could better control the remaining areas of Corsica, Sardinia, Balearic Islands, Spania, Italy and Zeugitana. Hoping to regain at least southern Italy, he attacked the Lombards in Benevento. However, he was defeated, and later assassinated in Syracuse in 668.
The Empire got a nrew Emperor: Constantine IV. The controversy over Monothelism was peaking. The "Orthodox" population were mainly in Anatolia and the Balkans, while Monothelites were in Phoenicia and the Levantine coast. This area was a strategic place, and losing it would mean losing hope over reconquerring the whole of Levant.
The Balkans were now mostly in hands of Bulgars, a Turkic people have established themselves. The northern border defences were defeating, with large groups of Slavic tribes migrating as far southwards as Thessalonica.However, the Empire had too few soldiers to deal with them. Tired of losing the wars against the Arabs, the Empire retreated, and tried to rebuild its strength within its shrinking borders.
In the Levant, two Arab kingdoms existed: Judea based around roughly Galilee and West Bank, but also encompassing the former Roman province of Arabia) with its capital in Jerusalem was led by and Ebionite dynasty who established their Patriarch in Jerusalem. Also, Jews were favoured and many returned to Judea. The second realm was established in Syria (east of the Orontes). The capital of this kingdom was Damascus.This kingdom was a Miaphysite (Syrian Jacobite) one , however, the distant provinces of the kingdom (Osroene, Commagene, Turabdin) were ruled by independent local nobles.
The kingdom in Syria was focusing its attention on conquerring Antioch, something the Rhomaics could not afford. In 674, an Aramaic army set westwards towards the city of Antioch. The Syrian king, Nahir I. marched towards Antioch with some 15 000 men. The commander of Antioch , a centrain Mikhael of Apamea was in charge of the defenses.
The Syrian army arrived from the north, near the Eastern Gate. However, a small detachment crossed Mount Silippios and approached from the south. They arso stopped the water supplies through the aqueduct. King Nahir wanted also to secure the western side , but the defenders always retook control of the western bank of the Orontes. The siege was going on for three months, until the Imperial forces landed at Alexandretta and were advancing towards the city. However, at this time the Syrians managed to breach the walls in the northern part of city and conquerred the area up till river Parmenios. However, when the imperial amry reached the place, the Syrian amry was utterly defeated.
Regarding Egypt, payments from Alexandria were arriving less frequent then expected, and contained less grain or gold than expected. Yaqub used the first years of his rule in Egypt at first to appease Constantinople and consolidate his realm. In second part of his reign , he attacked Cyrenaica (652). His succssor, Yousef , who assumed the throne in 661, proclaimed himself Pharaoh of Egypt and decided to take control of the lands eastwards. In 675, right after the Battle of Antioch, he marched eastwards against the kingdom of Judea. The Emperor was not happy when he received the news, but could do nothing. In his first campaign, Yousef secured the Sinai and Negev.
Meanwhile, Phoenicia revolted in 677. The center of the rebellion was Qadisha valley, and soon the rebels took control of most of coastal areas south of Laodicea. The rebellion was not to be crushed, as the rebels used ambush tactics and nver really went on the open battlefield.
When Justinian II. assumed the throne in 685, the Balkans were in a bad state. Slavs were raiding as far south as Sparta. They were to be taught a lesson. In a quichk campaign, Thessalonica, Thessaly and Pelopnessus as well as Attica were secured. Defeated Slavs were resettled to eastern Aantolia, where they were to serve as militias on the troublesome border with the Aramaics.
The west was left alone. The governor of Septum was not controllable at this time and the province of Spania has been reincorporated into the Visigothic kingdom some 50 years earlier. The priority was now to secure the Balkans, which were the direct hinterland of the city of Constantinople itself. Another campaign 690s cleared the Slavs from Thrace. His reign seemed to be a successful one... until a man named Leontius organized a coup....
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part six:The land of sand, frankincense and myrrh
What was going on in the Arabian peninsula? Well, the area remains a backwater, with no major inpact on further history.
The area around Persian Gulf gravitates towards Mesopotamia during the 7th century. A unification process is undergoing, resulting in founding the kingdom of Beth Qatraye centrerred around Gerrha. This area is heavily Aramaizied, speaking a dialect of Syriac with a heavy Arabic substratuum (as Aramaic is the prestige language in the area, caused by the fact of it being the liturgical language of the church of the East)
Jubail church, one of the earliest Christian buildings in Beth Qatraye
Mazun emerges in the area of UAE and Oman, with its capital being Sohar. Mazun retains its Arabic character, and has less Persian or Mesopotamian influences than Beth Qatraye.
Southwestwards, along the coast, the Mehri and Hadhrami tribes, in relative isolation, develop their own languages. Yemen is a more "civilized" area, open to influences from neighbouring Ethiopia, with a predominantly Jewish population. Najran is becoming a major Christian center, being such from the time of Abraha (his campaign against Mecca is rememberred as the Year of the Elephant). Najran has a Miaphysite population, and Christianity is spreading northwards into the regions of Asir and Jizan.
Soqotra
Soqotra, a remote island off the southern coast of Arabia, although being a tribal chiefdom, was one of the first areas to adopt Christianity. However, in compariosn to the center of the Church of the East in Mesopotamia, the local form is somewhat barbaric (imagine comparing Rome and the Chrisitan culture of say Scotland at the time.
Hejaz is by now mostly Jewish (the northernmost parts are Miaphysite), and still pagan in the interior. Yathrib, Taif and Taima are the major centers of the Jews in the area, while Mecca remains a stronghold for the Arab pagans. The area is declining, because the Rhomaic empire has again decided to put more focus on the Mesopotamian trade routes (since these are no longer held by the rival Sassanids) than on the Red Sea road towards India. The major tribal confederation in this area is centerred around Yathrib and is led by a council of Jewish merchant-chieftains.
Khaybar, major Jewish fortress in Hejaz
Najd remained what it was, a barren desert with occassional oasis, and unimportant tribes fighting each other over water sources and hearding lands. Many tribes from Najd emigrated to Mesopotamia, Egypt , Levant or Egypt, where they little by little blended with the local populations.
Contact through the peninsula is decreasing, and the differences between the Gulf regions on one side and the Yemen-Hejaz region on the other are growing.
What was going on in the Arabian peninsula? Well, the area remains a backwater, with no major inpact on further history.
The area around Persian Gulf gravitates towards Mesopotamia during the 7th century. A unification process is undergoing, resulting in founding the kingdom of Beth Qatraye centrerred around Gerrha. This area is heavily Aramaizied, speaking a dialect of Syriac with a heavy Arabic substratuum (as Aramaic is the prestige language in the area, caused by the fact of it being the liturgical language of the church of the East)
Mazun emerges in the area of UAE and Oman, with its capital being Sohar. Mazun retains its Arabic character, and has less Persian or Mesopotamian influences than Beth Qatraye.
Southwestwards, along the coast, the Mehri and Hadhrami tribes, in relative isolation, develop their own languages. Yemen is a more "civilized" area, open to influences from neighbouring Ethiopia, with a predominantly Jewish population. Najran is becoming a major Christian center, being such from the time of Abraha (his campaign against Mecca is rememberred as the Year of the Elephant). Najran has a Miaphysite population, and Christianity is spreading northwards into the regions of Asir and Jizan.
Soqotra, a remote island off the southern coast of Arabia, although being a tribal chiefdom, was one of the first areas to adopt Christianity. However, in compariosn to the center of the Church of the East in Mesopotamia, the local form is somewhat barbaric (imagine comparing Rome and the Chrisitan culture of say Scotland at the time.
Hejaz is by now mostly Jewish (the northernmost parts are Miaphysite), and still pagan in the interior. Yathrib, Taif and Taima are the major centers of the Jews in the area, while Mecca remains a stronghold for the Arab pagans. The area is declining, because the Rhomaic empire has again decided to put more focus on the Mesopotamian trade routes (since these are no longer held by the rival Sassanids) than on the Red Sea road towards India. The major tribal confederation in this area is centerred around Yathrib and is led by a council of Jewish merchant-chieftains.
Najd remained what it was, a barren desert with occassional oasis, and unimportant tribes fighting each other over water sources and hearding lands. Many tribes from Najd emigrated to Mesopotamia, Egypt , Levant or Egypt, where they little by little blended with the local populations.
Contact through the peninsula is decreasing, and the differences between the Gulf regions on one side and the Yemen-Hejaz region on the other are growing.
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TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part seven: Trouble in the Holy Land
The Ghatafanid kingdom was established in Judea, Samaria, Galilee, Transjordan and Sinai after the Battle of Yarmouk. The first king was a certain Jabalah I. Ghatafanid. The population remained mostly Jewish or Samaritan (therse two groups numnbered at around 400 000 at the time of the Arab conquest). However, Galilee was a mostly Christian area by then (mainly around Nazareth and Capernaum), while the major Jewish centers were at Hebron and Tiberias. Relations between the two communities were hostile, mainly due to the events of the Rhomaic-Persian war. Also a large part of the population adherred to the Ebionite sect (maybe some 9%) and a few were Arianist. The _Judean countryside also hosted a numerous Aramic-speaking Miaphysite population.
Patriarch Sofronius
Patriarch Sofronius of Jerusalem died shortly after the Arab conquest.King Jabalah appointed a Christian with Jewish roots ( under the name Zacheus II of Jerusalem). Patriarch Zacheus II accepted many Jewish customs, and was considered as Ebionite by foreigners... in fact he blended the ideas of contemporary Judeo-Chrisitan groups, such as alo the Essenes, Nazarenes, Elsechiates and Ebionites. Many of the Arab clans, from the Qais, Kinanh, Judham, and Amilah converted to this sect. The policies of the Arabs were considerred outright heretical and dangerous by Constantinople. The Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre openly protested against the policy of the Patriarch, whom they did not recognize as worthy of his title. Many of the devout Orthodox moved to the coast, into lads of Rhomaic control, where they elected anastasius II as Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Jabalahs policies to Jews were very liberal, he even permitted them to rebuild the Temple. (Third Jerusalme Temple). The Sanheddrin was resumed. Samaritans were also permitted to follow their customs uninterrupted, the only group facing real persecution were Orthodox and to some extent Miaphysite Christians.
In 651, Jabalah was succeeded by his nephew Amr I. Ghatafanid. Amr continued in the policies of his uncle, and allied himself by the emrging Jewish chiefdoms in Hejaz. (Many Jewish families moved in from Hejaz in this period). also he had an amicable relationship with the Arab kingdom in Syria. Abgar I of Syria (predecessor of Nahir I.) was a close ally of Amr, and Abgar has several times spoken in favour of the Miaphysites in Amrs kingdom. However, relations with Egypt begun to worsen, as Yaqub, and later his successor Youssef was pursuing an aggressive foreign policy.
Mount Sinai
In 675, Youssef I. of Egypt conquerred the Sinai peninsula and Negev, defeating the Ghatafanid kingdom at the Battle of Mampsis. After the defeat, Amr resigned and he was succeeded by his son Benjamin I. Ghatafanid. By this time, Syria was weakened, and the only hope for Benjamin were the rebelling Phoenicians. However, a great weakening of Rhomaic power would be against his interests, since the coast could be then easily overrun by Egyptians. if the coast would be conquerred by egypt, it would be only a matter of time as of when his whole kingdom would be conquerred by Youssef. If the Rhomaics were to assume full control over Phoenicia, they could take quick advantage of the situation and conquer the Ebionite kingdom. Therefore Benjamins spies and agents were sponsorring the Phoenician rebels. Meanwhile, Patriarch Zacheus was succeeded by Macarius III.
The Ghatafanid kingdom was established in Judea, Samaria, Galilee, Transjordan and Sinai after the Battle of Yarmouk. The first king was a certain Jabalah I. Ghatafanid. The population remained mostly Jewish or Samaritan (therse two groups numnbered at around 400 000 at the time of the Arab conquest). However, Galilee was a mostly Christian area by then (mainly around Nazareth and Capernaum), while the major Jewish centers were at Hebron and Tiberias. Relations between the two communities were hostile, mainly due to the events of the Rhomaic-Persian war. Also a large part of the population adherred to the Ebionite sect (maybe some 9%) and a few were Arianist. The _Judean countryside also hosted a numerous Aramic-speaking Miaphysite population.
Patriarch Sofronius
Patriarch Sofronius of Jerusalem died shortly after the Arab conquest.King Jabalah appointed a Christian with Jewish roots ( under the name Zacheus II of Jerusalem). Patriarch Zacheus II accepted many Jewish customs, and was considered as Ebionite by foreigners... in fact he blended the ideas of contemporary Judeo-Chrisitan groups, such as alo the Essenes, Nazarenes, Elsechiates and Ebionites. Many of the Arab clans, from the Qais, Kinanh, Judham, and Amilah converted to this sect. The policies of the Arabs were considerred outright heretical and dangerous by Constantinople. The Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre openly protested against the policy of the Patriarch, whom they did not recognize as worthy of his title. Many of the devout Orthodox moved to the coast, into lads of Rhomaic control, where they elected anastasius II as Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Jabalahs policies to Jews were very liberal, he even permitted them to rebuild the Temple. (Third Jerusalme Temple). The Sanheddrin was resumed. Samaritans were also permitted to follow their customs uninterrupted, the only group facing real persecution were Orthodox and to some extent Miaphysite Christians.
In 651, Jabalah was succeeded by his nephew Amr I. Ghatafanid. Amr continued in the policies of his uncle, and allied himself by the emrging Jewish chiefdoms in Hejaz. (Many Jewish families moved in from Hejaz in this period). also he had an amicable relationship with the Arab kingdom in Syria. Abgar I of Syria (predecessor of Nahir I.) was a close ally of Amr, and Abgar has several times spoken in favour of the Miaphysites in Amrs kingdom. However, relations with Egypt begun to worsen, as Yaqub, and later his successor Youssef was pursuing an aggressive foreign policy.
In 675, Youssef I. of Egypt conquerred the Sinai peninsula and Negev, defeating the Ghatafanid kingdom at the Battle of Mampsis. After the defeat, Amr resigned and he was succeeded by his son Benjamin I. Ghatafanid. By this time, Syria was weakened, and the only hope for Benjamin were the rebelling Phoenicians. However, a great weakening of Rhomaic power would be against his interests, since the coast could be then easily overrun by Egyptians. if the coast would be conquerred by egypt, it would be only a matter of time as of when his whole kingdom would be conquerred by Youssef. If the Rhomaics were to assume full control over Phoenicia, they could take quick advantage of the situation and conquer the Ebionite kingdom. Therefore Benjamins spies and agents were sponsorring the Phoenician rebels. Meanwhile, Patriarch Zacheus was succeeded by Macarius III.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part eight: A solution for the Phoenicians?
Leontius wanted to assume control over Jerusalem. After usurping the imperial throne in 686, he put this as his main ambition. However the key for a success in Palestine was pacifying Phoenicia. Military action could pacify the area in short-term period, but what he needed was a long term compromise, which would bring stasbility to the region, and loyalty of his Phoenician subjects.
To begin with, he ivites the rebels to Tyre, where they agree on the first terms: the governor of Phoenice is to be a local, of Maronite faith and Aramiac language. Also, the Diocese of the East was reestablished, with a significant level of autonomy. While the comes of Orient was an Antiochian, there were two vice-comes , one Miaphysite and one Monothelite. These were chosen by the mayors, commanders and nobility of the respective communities.
However, the Emperor had to solve one last issue:how to put three people on one chair?
So the Emperor called a Church council to Antioch. The clergy were not to debate about the creed ( this was highly controversial, and the emperor recognized, that they agree on disagreeing), but to find a modus vivendi, accpetable for all parties involved. While the Mardaites (as the Phoenician rebels were called) were busy finding a compromise in Antioch, the Emperor (who meanwhile discoverred the covert actions of the Ghassanids in relation to supporting the Mardaites), decided for action.
He set on a campaign and in 690 he arrived in Ceasarea Maritima, marching towards Ioppe and from there to Jerusalem. In the meantime, Youssef also invaded Palestine: he captured Raphia, Gaza, and Hebron. Meanwhile, another Rhomaic force secured Galilee. King Benjamin surrenderred to Leontius in autumn 691. According to the deal, the Gatafanid kingdom had to cede the Empire all lands west of the jordan river, as well as the Decapolis, Iturea, Gaulanitis, Batanea, Trachonitis, and Auranitis (that means reducing the Ghatafanid kingdom to Perae and Nabatea) Jews and Samaritans were tolerated, but all Ebionites were expulsed (settling in Peraea and Nabatia)
Youssef agreed on retreating, but he kept Raphia.
Regarding to the Synod in Antioch, the bishops agreed that:
1. The current Patriarchs will remaing being Patriarchs until death.
2. When the Patriarchal throne is empty, and none of the current claimants claim the throne, a new Patriarch will be elected.
3. The liturgy will remain the Antiochean Rite.
However, this agreement was not to be fulfilled, with three claimants fort the Patriarchal title continuing...
Leontius wanted to assume control over Jerusalem. After usurping the imperial throne in 686, he put this as his main ambition. However the key for a success in Palestine was pacifying Phoenicia. Military action could pacify the area in short-term period, but what he needed was a long term compromise, which would bring stasbility to the region, and loyalty of his Phoenician subjects.
To begin with, he ivites the rebels to Tyre, where they agree on the first terms: the governor of Phoenice is to be a local, of Maronite faith and Aramiac language. Also, the Diocese of the East was reestablished, with a significant level of autonomy. While the comes of Orient was an Antiochian, there were two vice-comes , one Miaphysite and one Monothelite. These were chosen by the mayors, commanders and nobility of the respective communities.
However, the Emperor had to solve one last issue:how to put three people on one chair?
- The "Orthodox"/Greek Patriarch was Sebastian of Antioch (687-690) at the time
- The "Monophysite"/ Syriac Patriarch was Julian II. (686-708)
- the"Monothelite/Phoenican Patriarch was John Maron (686-707)
So the Emperor called a Church council to Antioch. The clergy were not to debate about the creed ( this was highly controversial, and the emperor recognized, that they agree on disagreeing), but to find a modus vivendi, accpetable for all parties involved. While the Mardaites (as the Phoenician rebels were called) were busy finding a compromise in Antioch, the Emperor (who meanwhile discoverred the covert actions of the Ghassanids in relation to supporting the Mardaites), decided for action.
He set on a campaign and in 690 he arrived in Ceasarea Maritima, marching towards Ioppe and from there to Jerusalem. In the meantime, Youssef also invaded Palestine: he captured Raphia, Gaza, and Hebron. Meanwhile, another Rhomaic force secured Galilee. King Benjamin surrenderred to Leontius in autumn 691. According to the deal, the Gatafanid kingdom had to cede the Empire all lands west of the jordan river, as well as the Decapolis, Iturea, Gaulanitis, Batanea, Trachonitis, and Auranitis (that means reducing the Ghatafanid kingdom to Perae and Nabatea) Jews and Samaritans were tolerated, but all Ebionites were expulsed (settling in Peraea and Nabatia)
Youssef agreed on retreating, but he kept Raphia.
Regarding to the Synod in Antioch, the bishops agreed that:
1. The current Patriarchs will remaing being Patriarchs until death.
2. When the Patriarchal throne is empty, and none of the current claimants claim the throne, a new Patriarch will be elected.
3. The liturgy will remain the Antiochean Rite.
However, this agreement was not to be fulfilled, with three claimants fort the Patriarchal title continuing...
The Near East is gonna be chaos for quite some time, between the religious issues, the sudden incursion of the Arabs, and any Roman attempts to retake the area. And an ambitious Syrian king would logically seek to rule Palestine, being a holy site of Christianity AND historically part of "Syria" as a geographical concept ("Syria Palaestina" and all).
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Well the levant is just in an unlucky position, caught abidst the Rhomaic Empire, Yaqubid Egypt and the rising Mesoptoamia...
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part nine: A king, a Patriarch and two rivers.
Kings of Mesopotamia in the 7th century:
The rule of Youhanan I. was a period of a weak state, with mainly the Patriarch holding the realm together, as the provincila governors were highly autonomous. The central power was weak. The area was subdivided into nine satrapies,
The satrapy of Chaldea as well as parts of Mahoze were also Aramaic speaking Christians, but retained a Babylonian identity. Greek was riginally spoken in various urban communities dating back from the times of Alexander the great and his Seleucid successors, but they were about to fully assimilate.
The satrapies of Dulaym and Lakhm were Arab.
Persians and Armenians were present throughout the realm, mostly in cities. The Armenians were mostly merchants, while Persians used nto be the main elites.The Mandeans were present in eastern parts of the chaldea satrapy.
The local Jews were very numerous and influent. They were concentrated around the eastern end of the Dulaym satrapy and southern Mahoze satrapy. Also Arabs were present in the region of Hatra.
The state religion was the Church of the East, while the Jewish and Mandaic religions were tolerated. Zoroastrians of Persian descent were persecuted, while Manicheans (based Mahoze and Chaldea) and Ashurist pagans (in the remote nmorthern areas) managed to survive for some time in hiding
The Church of the East , quichkly taking advantage of its new position begun a campaign for baptising pagans, they were largely successful. The last recorded pagan temple was in Nohadra region and was shut by 654.
During the reign of Gabriel I., many new monasteries were being founded. These monasteries, apart from being a place to meditate, were also centers of knowledge and science.
Mar Ellia monastery, Adiabene satrapy (note - OTL bulldozed by ISIS)
During the reign of his son , Ashurdan I., a new movement called Assyrian Renaissance begun, resulting in growing interest for the history of ancient Mesopotamia, but aslso for scinece and literature
Among the many scholars are Marutha of Tagrit, who was a Miaphysite, then Youhanan bar Penkaye who contirbuted to documentation of history. This is a period of many translations to Syriac.
This cultural revolution leads to many innovations, at first regarding agriculture, where a threre crops system is established.
Relations with Syria remain close, despite religious tensions. After Nahir´s faiuled campaign for Antioch , the Syrian kingdom, due to same language is being brought tighter to Ctesiphon...
Kings of Mesopotamia in the 7th century:
- Youhanan I. (647-659)
- Gabriel I. (659-671)
- Ashurdan (671-694)
- Aphrem I. (694-710)
- 33 Ishoʿyahb II (628–645)
- 34 Maremmeh (646–649)
- 35 Ishoʿyahb III (649–659)
- 36 Giwargis I (661–680)
- 37 Yohannan I (680–683)
- vacant (683–685)
- 38 Hnanishoʿ I (686–698)
- Yohannan the Leper intrusus (691–693)
- vacant (698–714)
- 39 Sliba-zkha (714–728
The rule of Youhanan I. was a period of a weak state, with mainly the Patriarch holding the realm together, as the provincila governors were highly autonomous. The central power was weak. The area was subdivided into nine satrapies,
- Mahoze (Ctesiphon Qṭēsfōn (ܩܛܝܣܦܘܢ),
- Chaldea(Kashkar ܟܫܟܪ)
- Lakhm (Hira)
- Tirhan (Tagrit ܬܓܪܝܬ)
- Beth Garmai ܒܝܬܓܪܡܝ (Karkha d' Beth Slokh- renamed to Arapha ܐܪܦܗܐ)
- Adiabene/Hadyab ܚܕܝܐܒ (Arbela ܡܕܝܢܬܐ
- Dulaym (Anatha)
- Turabdinܛܘܼܪ ܥܒ݂ܕܝܼܢ (Nisibisܢܨܝܒܝܢ )
- Osrhoneܒܝܬ ܐܘܪܗܝ (Edessa/Urhay ܐܘܪܗܝ)
The satrapy of Chaldea as well as parts of Mahoze were also Aramaic speaking Christians, but retained a Babylonian identity. Greek was riginally spoken in various urban communities dating back from the times of Alexander the great and his Seleucid successors, but they were about to fully assimilate.
The satrapies of Dulaym and Lakhm were Arab.
Persians and Armenians were present throughout the realm, mostly in cities. The Armenians were mostly merchants, while Persians used nto be the main elites.The Mandeans were present in eastern parts of the chaldea satrapy.
The local Jews were very numerous and influent. They were concentrated around the eastern end of the Dulaym satrapy and southern Mahoze satrapy. Also Arabs were present in the region of Hatra.
The state religion was the Church of the East, while the Jewish and Mandaic religions were tolerated. Zoroastrians of Persian descent were persecuted, while Manicheans (based Mahoze and Chaldea) and Ashurist pagans (in the remote nmorthern areas) managed to survive for some time in hiding
The Church of the East , quichkly taking advantage of its new position begun a campaign for baptising pagans, they were largely successful. The last recorded pagan temple was in Nohadra region and was shut by 654.
During the reign of Gabriel I., many new monasteries were being founded. These monasteries, apart from being a place to meditate, were also centers of knowledge and science.
During the reign of his son , Ashurdan I., a new movement called Assyrian Renaissance begun, resulting in growing interest for the history of ancient Mesopotamia, but aslso for scinece and literature
Among the many scholars are Marutha of Tagrit, who was a Miaphysite, then Youhanan bar Penkaye who contirbuted to documentation of history. This is a period of many translations to Syriac.
This cultural revolution leads to many innovations, at first regarding agriculture, where a threre crops system is established.
Relations with Syria remain close, despite religious tensions. After Nahir´s faiuled campaign for Antioch , the Syrian kingdom, due to same language is being brought tighter to Ctesiphon...
You can always both Egypt and Byzantium overextending themselves militarily and politically in the Levant and either have an hitherto unknown horde (bonus points if they're of Scythian origin and or other gender equal horde) invade from the either the desert or steppes and pick up the pieces, later converting to Judaism as they become civilized (thus asserting their religious independence from Egypt and Byzantium). The other option is to have the Jews living in the Levant rise up under a single charismatic leader (male or female will do) and just throw both the Egyptians and Byzantines out. I think it's better in the long term for both Byzantium and Egypt to consolidate their core lands (Greece and Anatolia for Byzantium, the Nile valley for Egypt) than to waste military manpower on foreign adventures.
The Levant is one of the most fought over lands in history, after all. It's also the most natural place for Egyptian expansion, as Egyptian states have been doing since the time of Ancient Egypt.
Not sure why converting to Judaism would be a good idea, because even if the Arabs do have a Jewish heritage of some sort, I'm not sure how acceptable it might be to the Jews of Palestine (or the Samaritans, who were a sizable community at this point in time), and you'd piss off all your Christian neighbours AND the Christians living within your territory. And since that charismatic Jewish leader would no doubt be hailed as the Messiah, if the Messiah starts criticising the Arabs, well, that would be trouble.
And how is the Syrian Orthodox Church doing, by the way?
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Well Syria by this time is composed of the areas of Damascus, Homs, Hamah, Idlib and Aleppo provinces, and adjacent areas nothwards (Gaziantep and Kilis regions) . I suppose that Eastern Orthodox, Antiochian Greek population was present in Lattakia, Tartous, and the Orontes valley (blue), while local Aramaic-speaking, Miaphysite population was present in the Damascus region, and in northern Syria.(orange) nad th furthest east could be Church of the East)
The Syrian kingdom will be dealt with in next part
The Syrian kingdom will be dealt with in next part
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part ten: The "Great game" in the Levant?
Kings of Syria:
A map of the Kingdom of Syria at around mid 7th century
The kingdom of Syria consisted of two parts: Commagene in the north and Aram in the south. After Nahirs campaign for Antioch failed, Addai I. was patiently waiting for the fist Rhomaic mistake, of which he could take quick advantage. For his kingdom was already bordering the troublesome Rhomaics to the south and west. However, his claims for Syria were from the Taurus to the Tigris and to the Sinai. Without the coast, Syria seemed as just two satrapies of the mighty kingdom of Mesopotamia further eastwards, ready for incorporation.
Syriac Church , dioceses.
Regarding Church politics, the agreement regarding the unification of the Patriarchal succession in Antioch failed. What happenned was that the Greek Patriarch of Antioch remainned sitting in Antioch, while the maronite patriarch resided in Lebanon. The Syriac Patriarch moved at first to Damascus and then to Aleppo. Without being in the city of Antioch ,the Rhomaic empire considerred them to be schismatic pretenders. However, the Syriac claimants in Aleppo were recognized by Egypt, Armenia and Mesopotamia as the rightful owners of the title.(The Ebionite Ghatafanid kingdom was switching from recognizing the Maronite claimant and to recognizing the Syriac claimant back and forth)
In 698 Hanno of Ifriqia attacked Zeugitana, the last remaining Rhoamiac province in Africa. Emperor Leontius was unsuccessful in the defense, and when a campaign was led to regain Carthage, the Rhomaics utterly failed.
The Rhomaic empire got a new Basileus, Tiberius III. in 698. The weakening of the Rhomaic Empire was briskly used by the successor of Addai I., king Abgar II, who quickly assumed control over the Pentapolis, Trtachonitis, Auranitis, Iturea, Batanea and Galanitis (that is, pushing south to the Lake Tiberiad and Yarmouk river. In 699, Abgar II was preparring another host in Emessa. A messenger arrived , informing king Abgar II. that the Egyptians are willing to support the Syrian cause. The Egyptian army was marching towards Gaza. Abgar II. marched towards the coast in the region of Laodicea. The Battle of Qardaha was a major victory of the Syrian army, and in spring the Syrians besieged Laodicea. By 700, the Syrians marched again towards Antioch, where they were (again) utterly defeated.Abgar II. was slain in battle.
Meanwhile, the Egyptians have overrun Gaza and Ascalon. The Ebionites joined the war and reclaimed the Transjordanian Decapolis.
Soon in 703, the Treaty of Berytos was signed, giving Gaza and Ascalon to Egypt, the Decapolis to the Ebionites and the Bekaa valley to Syria (Laodicea and surroundings were returned to the Rhomaics.
Map after the Treaty of Berytos
After the death of the Greek Patriarch Alexander II in 702, the Antiochian Greeks were unable to elect a Patriarch of their own. Therefore, a political decision was made, and the Antiochian Greeks were put under the authority of Elias I. (who moved his seat again to Damascus. This was agreed soon after signing the Treaty of Berytos and lead to a normalisation of Greco-Syriac relations.
In 710, king Ignatius died. Chaos and civil war came to Syria, as he died childless and brotherless. His two nephews (Touma was the son of his aunt who was older then Ignatiusś uncle, from whom a certain Addai II. descended. War occurred, and while Touma held the regions of Aleppo, Apamea, Emessa and Hama, Addai II. held Damascus and the south, and Commagene asserted independence. Such quarelling favoured only one great power....
---°°°°
Any ideas for what could be going in former Sassanid Persia and present Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghania? In part three we discussed the collapse of the empire, but what followed ?
Kings of Syria:
- Thalabah I. (635-641)
- Abgar I. (641-669)
- Nahir I. (669-684)
- Addai I. (684-697)
- Abgar II. (697-701)
- Ignatius I. (701-710)
- Athanasius I Gammolo (595–631)
- John II (631–648)
- Theodore (649–667)
- Severus II bar Masqeh (667–681)
- Athanasius II (683–686)
- Julian II (686–708)
- Elias I (709–723)
The kingdom of Syria consisted of two parts: Commagene in the north and Aram in the south. After Nahirs campaign for Antioch failed, Addai I. was patiently waiting for the fist Rhomaic mistake, of which he could take quick advantage. For his kingdom was already bordering the troublesome Rhomaics to the south and west. However, his claims for Syria were from the Taurus to the Tigris and to the Sinai. Without the coast, Syria seemed as just two satrapies of the mighty kingdom of Mesopotamia further eastwards, ready for incorporation.
Regarding Church politics, the agreement regarding the unification of the Patriarchal succession in Antioch failed. What happenned was that the Greek Patriarch of Antioch remainned sitting in Antioch, while the maronite patriarch resided in Lebanon. The Syriac Patriarch moved at first to Damascus and then to Aleppo. Without being in the city of Antioch ,the Rhomaic empire considerred them to be schismatic pretenders. However, the Syriac claimants in Aleppo were recognized by Egypt, Armenia and Mesopotamia as the rightful owners of the title.(The Ebionite Ghatafanid kingdom was switching from recognizing the Maronite claimant and to recognizing the Syriac claimant back and forth)
In 698 Hanno of Ifriqia attacked Zeugitana, the last remaining Rhoamiac province in Africa. Emperor Leontius was unsuccessful in the defense, and when a campaign was led to regain Carthage, the Rhomaics utterly failed.
The Rhomaic empire got a new Basileus, Tiberius III. in 698. The weakening of the Rhomaic Empire was briskly used by the successor of Addai I., king Abgar II, who quickly assumed control over the Pentapolis, Trtachonitis, Auranitis, Iturea, Batanea and Galanitis (that is, pushing south to the Lake Tiberiad and Yarmouk river. In 699, Abgar II was preparring another host in Emessa. A messenger arrived , informing king Abgar II. that the Egyptians are willing to support the Syrian cause. The Egyptian army was marching towards Gaza. Abgar II. marched towards the coast in the region of Laodicea. The Battle of Qardaha was a major victory of the Syrian army, and in spring the Syrians besieged Laodicea. By 700, the Syrians marched again towards Antioch, where they were (again) utterly defeated.Abgar II. was slain in battle.
Meanwhile, the Egyptians have overrun Gaza and Ascalon. The Ebionites joined the war and reclaimed the Transjordanian Decapolis.
Soon in 703, the Treaty of Berytos was signed, giving Gaza and Ascalon to Egypt, the Decapolis to the Ebionites and the Bekaa valley to Syria (Laodicea and surroundings were returned to the Rhomaics.
After the death of the Greek Patriarch Alexander II in 702, the Antiochian Greeks were unable to elect a Patriarch of their own. Therefore, a political decision was made, and the Antiochian Greeks were put under the authority of Elias I. (who moved his seat again to Damascus. This was agreed soon after signing the Treaty of Berytos and lead to a normalisation of Greco-Syriac relations.
In 710, king Ignatius died. Chaos and civil war came to Syria, as he died childless and brotherless. His two nephews (Touma was the son of his aunt who was older then Ignatiusś uncle, from whom a certain Addai II. descended. War occurred, and while Touma held the regions of Aleppo, Apamea, Emessa and Hama, Addai II. held Damascus and the south, and Commagene asserted independence. Such quarelling favoured only one great power....
---°°°°
Any ideas for what could be going in former Sassanid Persia and present Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghania? In part three we discussed the collapse of the empire, but what followed ?
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
The Persians are weak and divided amongst several warring clans! Each with a narrow-minded aspiration to crush the rest and become the next dynasty of shahs! They're probably too weak to do on their own but if they seek outside help from an outside power - like the Gokturk Khanate, perhaps one can unite the Persians. That is of course if the Gokturk Khan isn't willing to use their division to seize the throne and grant his lands to the hordes.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Part 11: Across the Pillars of Heracles
Visigothic Hispania was undergoing a civil war:
Aquila II held the Ebro basin and Narbonensis,Roderic Lusitania and Carthaginensis, while Gallaaecia and Baetica were contested.
On the other side, across the pillars of Heracles, a certain Julian, count of Septum ruled the northernmost parts of Morrocco. The former Roman provinces of Mauretania and Numidia were ruled by local Berber (or Maurish) elites.
The "Romano-Moorish" states are so called because they had a Berber population romanized at different levels: the coastal and urban areas were populated by descendants of Roman colonists and by Romanized Berbers, while in the mountainous interior the population was made by semi-Romanized Berbers and by some Roman colonists in a few military centers (like Lambaesis in the Aures region, headquarters of the Legio III Augusta). Sometimes these states were called "Romano-Berber" States, but this name was referred properly to those in Mauritania (Tingitana and Caesariensis) while the Neo-Latin Berber States were all in Numidia (actual Tunisia and central-eastern Algeria).
These kings had the most independence of any post-Imperium kingdom. They only gave nominal allegiance to Constantinople, and unlike the Byzantine Exarchate of Africa did not interact on any level with Constantinople, except during the Vandalic War of Belisarius. Roman emperor Justinian I is actually credited with essentially giving them free authority (although how he did so hasn't come down to us) and further legitimized their rule. After the Vandals conquered Carthage, the areas of Numidia bordering the Romano-Moorish kingdoms achieved independence under Berber kings, from Caesarea to Capsa: these areas during the fifth century were populated by a Romanized population in the cities (mostly related to Roman colonists and legionaries, liked Timgad[9]) and in the mountains by a Berber population speaking a Latinized Berber according to Saint Augustine (who wrote that the original native Berber was spoken only by the nomad tribes).
Furthermore nearly all Berbers were Christians since the third century, to the point that one of the most famous and important Christian saints was Berber: Saint Augustine.[11] But in the Atlas mountains was still worshipped some form of paganism and idolatry when the Vandals arrived: Pope Gelasius I, a Berber born in what is now Kabylia, successfully converted to Christianity around 492 AD all the Berbers of the Aures.
However after eight centuries secure from foreign attack, Rome fell to the Visigoths in 410 AD and Carthage had been captured in 439 AD by Vandals under Gaiseric.[12] These changes were traumatic to Roman citizens in the Africa Province including, of course, those acculturated Berbers who once enjoyed the prospects for livelihood provided by the long fading, now badly broken Imperial economy.
Yet also other Berbers saw a chance for betterment if not liberation in the wake of Rome's slide toward disorder. Living within the empire in urban poverty or as rural laborers, or living beyond its frontiers as independent pastoralists primarily but also as tillers of the soil, were Berbers who found new political-economic opportunities in Rome's decline, e.g., access to better land and trading terms. The consequent absence of Imperial authority at the periphery soon led to the emergence of new Berber polities. These arose not along the sea coast in the old Imperial cities, but centered inland at the borderland (the limes) of empire, between the steppe and the sown.
This "pre-Sahara" geographic and cultural zone ran along the mountainous frontier, the "Tell", hill country and upland plains, which separated the "well-watered, Mediterranean districts of the Maghreb to the north, from the Sahara desert to the south." Here Berber tribal chiefs acted through force and negotiation to establish a new source of governing authority.[13]
...the builders of the first Djeddars were kings who ruled in the territories of Mauretania Caesariensis from the fifth century...One of them named Masuna, contemporary of the Vandal kings, in 508 AD said that ruled as "King of the Mauri and of the Romans". We know only a few of the names of these kings, like Mastinas and Garmul. Another named Vartaia (called Ortaias by Procopius) ruled former Mauretania Setifiana, while some years before Masties ruled the Aures region, and a king whose name has been lost but who -like Masties and Masuna- proclaimed his faith in a Christian God, used to say that he was king of the Ucutamani...and was the ruler of little Kabylia - Roger Camps
These Berber states are often called "Neo-Latin" because were post-Roman (meaning: no more under the Roman Empire authority), with a local and differentiated Latin language mixed with many local Berberisms, and with a Christian religion. They even initially developed a local form of heresy called Donatism: this "Donatismus" was a Christian sect within the Roman Province of Africa that flourished in the fourth, fifth and early sixth centuries inside communities of Berber Christians. The "Donatists" (named for the Berber Christian bishop Donatus Magnus) were members of a schismatic church not in communion with the churches of the Catholic tradition in Late Antiquity. Some of their Christian kings left the monuments called now "Djeddars". Their original Berber name is unknown. Indeed during the fifth century the area was fully Christianized, according to historian Theodore Mommsen, and the kings were probably buried in a mausoleum called "Djeddar" in berber.[14] Historian Gabriel Camps[15] thinks that some Berber kings (like Masuna and Garmul) were buried in a Djeddar near Frenda.
(wikipedia: Roman-Moorish kingdoms)
The largest Berber states were around Altava,then Ouarsenis kingdom around Tlemcen, another principality was found around Hodna and three small in the Numidia region.
With no Islamic invasions, the kingdom of Altava manages to survive and Kusaila unifies much of OTL Algeria plus the easternmost parts of Morrocco. The Altavian kingdom is, similar to its eastern neighbour, Donatist.
By the late 7th century, the Counts of Septum manage to enlarge their territory to encompass also the whole Tangier-Tetouan -El Hoceina and adjacent areas. His successors proclaim themselves as Dukes of Moritania, as the region around Septum, although romanized is quite isolated and develops its own Berbero-Romance language (Moritanian).
Hispania, or the Visigothic kingdom, was divided into the following divisions:
The major Visigothic settlement areas were around the middle Duero, known as Tierra des Campos, but alsoaround the Ebro, near Emerita, in Reccopolis and around Toletum and Lisbon. Also in Asturias. The kingdom began with the development of proto-feudalism,....
Visigothic Hispania was undergoing a civil war:
Aquila II held the Ebro basin and Narbonensis,Roderic Lusitania and Carthaginensis, while Gallaaecia and Baetica were contested.
On the other side, across the pillars of Heracles, a certain Julian, count of Septum ruled the northernmost parts of Morrocco. The former Roman provinces of Mauretania and Numidia were ruled by local Berber (or Maurish) elites.
The "Romano-Moorish" states are so called because they had a Berber population romanized at different levels: the coastal and urban areas were populated by descendants of Roman colonists and by Romanized Berbers, while in the mountainous interior the population was made by semi-Romanized Berbers and by some Roman colonists in a few military centers (like Lambaesis in the Aures region, headquarters of the Legio III Augusta). Sometimes these states were called "Romano-Berber" States, but this name was referred properly to those in Mauritania (Tingitana and Caesariensis) while the Neo-Latin Berber States were all in Numidia (actual Tunisia and central-eastern Algeria).
These kings had the most independence of any post-Imperium kingdom. They only gave nominal allegiance to Constantinople, and unlike the Byzantine Exarchate of Africa did not interact on any level with Constantinople, except during the Vandalic War of Belisarius. Roman emperor Justinian I is actually credited with essentially giving them free authority (although how he did so hasn't come down to us) and further legitimized their rule. After the Vandals conquered Carthage, the areas of Numidia bordering the Romano-Moorish kingdoms achieved independence under Berber kings, from Caesarea to Capsa: these areas during the fifth century were populated by a Romanized population in the cities (mostly related to Roman colonists and legionaries, liked Timgad[9]) and in the mountains by a Berber population speaking a Latinized Berber according to Saint Augustine (who wrote that the original native Berber was spoken only by the nomad tribes).
Furthermore nearly all Berbers were Christians since the third century, to the point that one of the most famous and important Christian saints was Berber: Saint Augustine.[11] But in the Atlas mountains was still worshipped some form of paganism and idolatry when the Vandals arrived: Pope Gelasius I, a Berber born in what is now Kabylia, successfully converted to Christianity around 492 AD all the Berbers of the Aures.
However after eight centuries secure from foreign attack, Rome fell to the Visigoths in 410 AD and Carthage had been captured in 439 AD by Vandals under Gaiseric.[12] These changes were traumatic to Roman citizens in the Africa Province including, of course, those acculturated Berbers who once enjoyed the prospects for livelihood provided by the long fading, now badly broken Imperial economy.
Yet also other Berbers saw a chance for betterment if not liberation in the wake of Rome's slide toward disorder. Living within the empire in urban poverty or as rural laborers, or living beyond its frontiers as independent pastoralists primarily but also as tillers of the soil, were Berbers who found new political-economic opportunities in Rome's decline, e.g., access to better land and trading terms. The consequent absence of Imperial authority at the periphery soon led to the emergence of new Berber polities. These arose not along the sea coast in the old Imperial cities, but centered inland at the borderland (the limes) of empire, between the steppe and the sown.
This "pre-Sahara" geographic and cultural zone ran along the mountainous frontier, the "Tell", hill country and upland plains, which separated the "well-watered, Mediterranean districts of the Maghreb to the north, from the Sahara desert to the south." Here Berber tribal chiefs acted through force and negotiation to establish a new source of governing authority.[13]
...the builders of the first Djeddars were kings who ruled in the territories of Mauretania Caesariensis from the fifth century...One of them named Masuna, contemporary of the Vandal kings, in 508 AD said that ruled as "King of the Mauri and of the Romans". We know only a few of the names of these kings, like Mastinas and Garmul. Another named Vartaia (called Ortaias by Procopius) ruled former Mauretania Setifiana, while some years before Masties ruled the Aures region, and a king whose name has been lost but who -like Masties and Masuna- proclaimed his faith in a Christian God, used to say that he was king of the Ucutamani...and was the ruler of little Kabylia - Roger Camps
These Berber states are often called "Neo-Latin" because were post-Roman (meaning: no more under the Roman Empire authority), with a local and differentiated Latin language mixed with many local Berberisms, and with a Christian religion. They even initially developed a local form of heresy called Donatism: this "Donatismus" was a Christian sect within the Roman Province of Africa that flourished in the fourth, fifth and early sixth centuries inside communities of Berber Christians. The "Donatists" (named for the Berber Christian bishop Donatus Magnus) were members of a schismatic church not in communion with the churches of the Catholic tradition in Late Antiquity. Some of their Christian kings left the monuments called now "Djeddars". Their original Berber name is unknown. Indeed during the fifth century the area was fully Christianized, according to historian Theodore Mommsen, and the kings were probably buried in a mausoleum called "Djeddar" in berber.[14] Historian Gabriel Camps[15] thinks that some Berber kings (like Masuna and Garmul) were buried in a Djeddar near Frenda.
(wikipedia: Roman-Moorish kingdoms)
The largest Berber states were around Altava,then Ouarsenis kingdom around Tlemcen, another principality was found around Hodna and three small in the Numidia region.
With no Islamic invasions, the kingdom of Altava manages to survive and Kusaila unifies much of OTL Algeria plus the easternmost parts of Morrocco. The Altavian kingdom is, similar to its eastern neighbour, Donatist.
By the late 7th century, the Counts of Septum manage to enlarge their territory to encompass also the whole Tangier-Tetouan -El Hoceina and adjacent areas. His successors proclaim themselves as Dukes of Moritania, as the region around Septum, although romanized is quite isolated and develops its own Berbero-Romance language (Moritanian).
Hispania, or the Visigothic kingdom, was divided into the following divisions:
The major Visigothic settlement areas were around the middle Duero, known as Tierra des Campos, but alsoaround the Ebro, near Emerita, in Reccopolis and around Toletum and Lisbon. Also in Asturias. The kingdom began with the development of proto-feudalism,....
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Hope the Visigoths reunite. Don't want to look like a weak, easy target for either the Franks or Romano-Berbers!
What about Volubilis? What's going on there? OTL it was declining, but I suspect it could have been revived. It also served as the capital for the local Arab rulers before they built Fes (with a lot of material from Volubilis at that). It would make a good capital for anyone seeking to rule the interior. Also, since I'm insanely interested in ATLs that have non-Islamic North Africa, do you have any samples of the Moritanian language you mention?
Syria being fought over is little surprising considering the history of that region.
For Central Asia, I'd imagine the region has a variety of local nobles trying to rule and incursions from nomadic tribes. Afghanistan is interesting, since it would have a large Buddhist population. All of Central Asia is very religiously mixed, which makes it basically a blank canvas. There's also the Zunbils and other tribes there which followed a sort of Indo-European paganism akin to Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.
Syria being fought over is little surprising considering the history of that region.
For Central Asia, I'd imagine the region has a variety of local nobles trying to rule and incursions from nomadic tribes. Afghanistan is interesting, since it would have a large Buddhist population. All of Central Asia is very religiously mixed, which makes it basically a blank canvas. There's also the Zunbils and other tribes there which followed a sort of Indo-European paganism akin to Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Sorry for my inclarity the map was showing the ADMINISTRATIVE or Feudal subdivisions of Hispania .. it remains as realm with its capital at Toletum.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
The Moritanian language is part of the southern Romance languages, along with Ifriqian and Sardinian. Mritanian and Ifriqian are also known as Berbero-Romance languages.
(I am not a linguist studying Romance so this will be very amateurish:
The sentence "She always closes the window before she dines"
- Latin:(Ea) semper antequam cenat fenestram claudit.
- Sardinian: Issa serrat sempri a ventana innantis de cenài
- Betican (Mozarabic):Ella cloudet sempre la fainestra abante da cenare.
- Sicilian: Idda chiui sempri la finestra prima di pistiari
- Ifriqian: Iya serra simmpri a wentana abate d cenar
- Moritanian: Eya klodet semre la finisra ifante d shenai
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Was Moritanian a little bit different from African Romance spoken in what is now OTL present-day Tunisi?