Northern Buryatia is definitely outside Mongolian power projection. But Ulan-Ude is not far from Mongolia and is connected to Ulaanbaataar by both road and the Trans-Mongolian Railway.
The Death of Russia - TL
- Thread starter Sorairo
- Start date
I’m curious to see what sort of effects this will have on pop culture in the 2000s. All the media where Russia was the main villain will definitely be butterflied away or much different (a bunch of FPSs for example). Homefront probably also gets butterflied since DPRK has ceased to be a credible threat.
Also a little curious how the Civilization games treat Russia ITTL.
Also a little curious how the Civilization games treat Russia ITTL.
Depending on how the Civil War ends, you could have games that use the Commie and Nazi Russias as villains. The scale of the conflict would need to change though.
Like, instead of there being the threat of invasion by Russia like in Modern Warfare 3, the game could use the threat of the Commie-Nazi war spilling over into neighboring nations. Maybe the campaign would have spec ops infiltrating a Russian state to capture or sabotage Soviet era nukes, biological agents, or chemical weapons.
Spy films and movies could feature the main characters aiding the Russian Federation, Siberia, or the FEK against infiltration by Commie or Nazi Russians spies.
Russia could still be used in a historical sense, though it would technically be the Soviet Union.
From the Call of Duty series, World at War could still include a Soviet campaign and Black Ops could still use the Soviet Union as enemies.
Civilization could use the ruins of Moscow as one of the "game over" screens.
With a state as powerful as Russia collapsing on its own instead of being defeated by outside forces, I wonder if that might change the focus of the entire grand strategy genre from expansionism and crushing your enemies to managing your existing state through crises until your opponents can't weather the storm.
I do also wonder on how exactly this will butterfly away the Command and Conquer series, especially with the release of Red Alert IOTL in 1996.
Perhaps that series could depict the Brotherhood of Nod exploiting the situation in Russia to their advantage.
Any thoughts from @Sorairo on the potential impact on the world economy?
USSR was in terms of volume the worlds largest producer of oil and gas before its OTL-collaps, and the civil war in 1993 is coming in a periode of low investments in oil / gas, so global prices are going to go up to the hard limits of 140-150 USD (much as the US civil war did in the 1860s). The impact of this is likely a global recession.
Also, the opening of the Chinese market (e.g. the Southern tour) is only about a year old. There is a possibility that the Chinese leadership goes "shit - this will happen to us if we don't stop economic reforms" and shut it all down, resulting in China not industrializing as per OTL. The lack of China as a emerging consumer market will significantly effect global GDP downwards. Japan / Europe will potentially stay in stagflation.
USSR was in terms of volume the worlds largest producer of oil and gas before its OTL-collaps, and the civil war in 1993 is coming in a periode of low investments in oil / gas, so global prices are going to go up to the hard limits of 140-150 USD (much as the US civil war did in the 1860s). The impact of this is likely a global recession.
Also, the opening of the Chinese market (e.g. the Southern tour) is only about a year old. There is a possibility that the Chinese leadership goes "shit - this will happen to us if we don't stop economic reforms" and shut it all down, resulting in China not industrializing as per OTL. The lack of China as a emerging consumer market will significantly effect global GDP downwards. Japan / Europe will potentially stay in stagflation.
A Second Great Depression has been declared due to the collapse of the property and stock markets as people leave the cities due to fear of nuclear missiles flying, as well as the resources of Russia being sanctioned then completely cut off.
Doesn't sound likely to me. Li Peng had already pretty thoroughly lost the economic debate in 1993, capped with a heart attack. The most likely change is that the Chinese government starts looking askance at house churches and qigong cults sooner, and probably cracks down on Falun Gong well before the OTL year of 1999.
OTOH, the disruption of the world economy at the very least would make those pushing for a more state-centered economy stronger in their arguments by wrapping their arguments in the banner of "economic stability" with the Second Great Depression and all that.
The retrenchment of '89-'92 had already proven very bad for the Chinese economy, and besides, China actually stepped up reform following the 1997 Asian financial crisis. So I don't think so.
Ulan-Ude might be a stretch, it was the size of 1/4th of the entire Mongolian population and majority Russian. However, the Russian population in the region are the likeliest to rush to the FEK or leave Russia as refugees, while the Tunguistic and Mongol population would likely stick around, so the demographics might shift in favor of a Mongolian take over.
In addition, the Mongolian Communist Party was dominant politically, but they severely mismanaged the economy leading to wide discontent with the Mongolian population and being voted out in 1996 otl. Without a shadow of a doubt, any military offensive into Russia to reclaim Mongolian lands would result in a landslide shift in opinion in favor of the Mongolian Communist Party and probably leading to their re election itl
Though the question is whether the Mongolians are able to resist Lebed's offensive, especially with the forces he has (including elite mercenaries).
I imagine Central Asia might be more china-aligned than OTL, given the fact that there isn't really a counterbalance to China in the region ITTL
Last edited:
seeing as how civ 1 would already be released by the time of the PoD, I think there would be some focus on stability and internal politics in your nation, on top of the expansionism. the Spy mechanic might be a lot more in-depth ITTL
Especially as Tajikistan has been stated to become an "extension of Afghanistan" and all that owing to the result of their civil war ITTL.
Grand strategy games in general i think would treat the concept of civil war much more tenuously than OTL, like if your stability gets too low you might just collapse into several warlord states, in say, hoi4.
There would also probably be much more emphasis on economics and markets, given how badly the 2nd russian civil war has affected markets.
There would also probably be much more emphasis on economics and markets, given how badly the 2nd russian civil war has affected markets.
Tankies would be facinating here.
"The Soviets beat the Nazis all by themselves! The Soviet Union was flawless! Please ignore the gutted and possibly radioactive remnants of thier rule!"
Between this and Yugoslavia, anti-Communism just got a big shot in the arm.
I wonder how much of the at the time recently declassified and open to foreign press Soviet archives were studied before they literally went up in smoke? That's one if the reasons we know the full extent of Soviet infiltration and activity in the Cold War...
My favorite little detail being that Francis Ford Coppola apparently was taking money from Moscow.
"The Soviets beat the Nazis all by themselves! The Soviet Union was flawless! Please ignore the gutted and possibly radioactive remnants of thier rule!"
Between this and Yugoslavia, anti-Communism just got a big shot in the arm.
I wonder how much of the at the time recently declassified and open to foreign press Soviet archives were studied before they literally went up in smoke? That's one if the reasons we know the full extent of Soviet infiltration and activity in the Cold War...
My favorite little detail being that Francis Ford Coppola apparently was taking money from Moscow.