The Death of Russia - TL

The most terrifying thing that we in 2022 take away is that, there's a plausible chance that this TL becomes reality in the coming years.:eek:

I mean, if he CCP is willing to go for an orderly transition? Sure. If they don’t, people my decide for them.
Some dictatorships have voluntarily relinquished their monopoly on power, out of self-interest. The 1980s were the most politically liberal period of the PRC, and there was open debate about whether the CCP should be forced to compete for power in elections, as a mechanism for public accountability. Tiananmen Square put an end to such talk. But, ITTL, the top leaders of China were Deng and Jiang, both of whom were known for their ideological flexibility within the confines of the one-party state. It's just possible to imagine that they conclude that continuing the one-party dictatorship will lead to a Soviet-style crisis, eventually culminating in a Russian-style bloodbath; hence, the best alternative would be for a gradual transition to get ahead of these pressures, and use the transition to ask the west for ample financial assistance.

I just do not see another Tiananmen Square. Everyone is horrified by 4/10. But, neither will another re-Mao-ification like Stalingrad be tolerated by anyone, nor will there be any zeal for one. Some type of political reforms with a broad national consensus not to rock the boat could emerge as the easiest path forward.
 
In many ways, 4/10 would be the darkest day in human history for as long as people will remember it with Barkashov being seen as having a level of evil even Hitler could not achieve.
And post-90s Axis Victory scenarios would assume that had Hitler won the Nazi collapse would have been just like USSR's after they killed Russia ahead of the schedule
 
I'm going to disagree, if Sasha Cohen is alive well his entire sense of humor is built on bad taste he might choose a different country but he's going to create something outragous.

If anything, Borat might be from some kind of post-nuclear holocaust warlord state in former fascist Russia, since the character's whole thing, is to try and make the people he interacts with say the quiet part out loud, like that time where Cohen attended a MAGA rally while dressed as a stereotypical redneck:


...or maybe, his "Borat" character will be an US redneck or some other equivalent, spouting racist shit while trying to make everyone around him spout racist shit as well, in order to show that even in the "enlightened" developed world, not even a nuclear holocaust was able to make people realize that racism is fucked. To double down on that angle, this character might actually be refined and successful, maybe a descendant of a White exile, or a House of Lords peer, saying the vilest shit while being unflappably genteel and refined.
 
Anyone wonder how the European Union is developed in this TL? And whether European integration will be more successful?
Gonna be even more eastern European countries in the EU + Russian refugees. If a certain leader still decides its a good idea to "rub the rights nose in it" with freedom of movement then Britain will be heading out either sooner than otl or with an even bigger majority. Doesn't help Britain was also hit pretty hard, having its (admittedly outer regions) capitol nuked, and if people feel like the EU didn't help out enough then thats just fuel for the fire
 
Since the events of 4/10, I wonder how influence could affect Star Wars, DC, and Marvel considering in the Star Wars franchise, if their storyline is rewritten was the Galactic Empire imploding into a fiery three-way civil war between factions competing for power.
 
Since the events of 4/10, I wonder how influence could affect Star Wars, DC, and Marvel considering in the Star Wars franchise, if their storyline is rewritten was the Galactic Empire imploding into a fiery three-way civil war between factions competing for power.

I think that the Phantom Menace would likely stay mostly the same since the script was worked on since 1993 and production began in 1994, but all subsequent films would change quite a bit.

The global depression and later the events of 4/10 could lead to the production and filming of Phantom Menace being delayed. But that's assuming that Lucasarts survives the Second Great Depression and the movies are still made.

The following movies would need to end up with the Galactic Empire rising in order to maintain continuity with A New Hope but other than that I could see the Second Russian Civil War and 4/10 having a large impact on the writing.
 
I mean the Empire collapsing into infighting and everything going to Hell is already how the Expanded Universe/Legends went so all they would have to do is adapt it while tonning down some of the aspects Lucas is less okay with
 
I mean the Empire collapsing into infighting and everything going to Hell is already how the Expanded Universe/Legends went so all they would have to do is adapt it while tonning down some of the aspects Lucas is less okay with
Because you know 4/10 really you see the horror of a collapsing Empire
 
Since the events of 4/10, I wonder how influence could affect Star Wars, DC, and Marvel considering in the Star Wars franchise, if their storyline is rewritten was the Galactic Empire imploding into a fiery three-way civil war between factions competing for power.
Rest of the World see what a Superpower empire turn into a Bloody affair even without 4/10, 15 Million people still died during the War.
 
Since the events of 4/10, I wonder how influence could affect Star Wars, DC, and Marvel considering in the Star Wars franchise, if their storyline is rewritten was the Galactic Empire imploding into a fiery three-way civil war between factions competing for power.
Not necessarely. Maybe is the New Republic that implodes in a fiercy three-way civil war between Imperial Restorationists, Radical Republicans and the remnants of Rebel Alliance trying to make damage control and attempting (and failing) in containing the war. The Empire here is the Soviet Union becoming the Russian Federation (the New Republic) and imploding
 
Or alternatively, the Clone Wars would be a multi-sided affair with multiple factions fighting it out instead as opposed to the relatively "simple" Republic vs CIS affair that it was in OTL's Prequels.
 
"America is still here, and with its allies from around the world, is ready to exact vengeance on those who caused this calamity." - I don't think there is anyone left to do that on...

"Our friends are hurt, some worse than us, but all the hurt that we have taken is only a fraction of what we have visited upon them." - understatement.

"As I speak, the armies of the Free World, from Europe to Latin America and even the free Russians of Siberia are rolling into European Russia to minimise civilian casualties and bring to justice whatever perpetrators of the crimes we have witnessed for the past few years have survived." - hope they have a lot of Hazmat and PPE.

"We have the opportunity to learn from the mistakes that got us here to forge a new future," - good luck.

"You were a soldier in the British army stationed in Lithuania, is that correct?” - I hope he go plently of mental health help after this duty.

"before realising “Wait, only Russia is destroyed” and then crumpled to the ground. Their country was gone. Their history, their culture, everything." - just like Vladimir.

"Soldier: “... Can we skip that question and come back to it?” - tells you everything really.

"His name was Anton Krasovsky, and he had the nickname of ‘monster’." - one bastard caught at least.

"That’s why I never understood why the American were so mad about the idea of Timothy McVeigh getting tried at the Hague." - two caught.

"If he was going to suffer, as I wanted him to, I wanted him to live as long as possible - in that sense, it was a good thing he was so young. We beat the shit out of him, obviously." - very British somehow.

"no adult in a society with access to information has ever been a Nuclear Holocaust, or Jewish Holocaust denier out of facts or logic." - very, very true.

"The only thing I can say to the people who say the rape camps didn’t exist, that it all was made up to justify the nuclear strike, I wish you were right, mate. I really wish you were right.” - yup those are memories you do not get rid of easily.

"Thirty-eight million. That was the final death toll of the Second Russian Civil War," - wow. Just unimaginable.

"a scene whose morality and taste has been hotly contested since, not in the least due to one of the soldiers tying a small Polish flag halfway up the flagpole due to his Polish ancestry." - yeah that is a little tacky/disrespectful.

"However, the climatic effects of the ‘Nuclear Autumn’ that lasted until the dawn of the new millenia" - damm that is bad.

"The Fascist troops had more holdouts and ambushes, and by the end of 1996, it was estimated that nearly 4,000 intervening troops had been killed by Fascists, as compared to about 1,200 killed by Red soldiers." - just give the feck up idiots.

"it wouldn’t be until early 1997 that it was definitely determined that it was Al-Qaeda, not Petrograd, who fired the first shot in the nuclear conflict." - I bet that upended a lot of people's world views, but I suspect it did not lead to the American anti-Muslim sentiment that 11th September did OTL due partly to the time distance, and the attack was not America as such.

"European Russia was put under UN administration with Kaliningrad now stuck with having to pay reparation to Russia’s many enraged neighbours and genocided minorities." - how are they going to pay that off then given how small that place is?

"The occupation was primarily a NATO job, and certainly NATO would be the first to go anywhere in the stricken country." - I bet some idiots would portray this occupation as the 'final' act of the Cold War with the West having won.

"The highest ranking Fascist official alive was Eduard Limonov" - and many would lament that fact, wanting more of the bastards.

"Tellingly, on April 12th Lebed would declare on radio that he had rescinded his claim to European Russia." - sensible. No one wants that mess.

"He was declaring the independence of Siberia and recognising the FEK as a sovereign state as well, a decision soon reciprocated by Vladivostok." - that is a good thing.

"Finland would consequently become uncharacteristically harsh in its demand for a settlement. The Latvians and Estonians would be equally vindictive," - Lebed made the right decision to be well away from that mess.

"The two Baltic countries now longer demanded the return of their 1993 borders, but their 1939 borders," - and they will probably get them if they want the pollution, population and cleanup.

"Turkey sent their troops by boat up to the east side of the Kerch strait, then began to march south along the Black Sea while sending troops up from Circassia." - where is Georgia in this?

"The wave of Russophobia in 1996 due to the strike was short but profound" - not as bad as it could have been.

"This would kick-start the voluntary emigration of Russian citizens to the FEK and Siberia, both of which were in great demand of people given their sheer scale." - understandable really. Chance to be a bigger fish there than in the West perhaps?

"Ukraine’s nationalist leadership had taken the view that the fall of Russia left Kyiv as the true inheritor to Constantinople and Rome," - humm... I wonder how much religion come dominate there?

"Ukraine has subsequently become the leader of the EU’s Eastern Bloc alongside Poland, primarily in opposition to France and Germany." - well they made it into the EU Club then.

"Riots swept the major cities of most major cities that evening as looters and various shades of political fundamentalists tried to take advantage of the chaos." - not a surprise.

"Clinton’s approval boost pre-emptively guaranteed a crushing re-election victory over John McCain that November." - That is not a surprise either, unless Clinton had stepped back from exhaustion he was guaranteed that win. Wonder is McCain runs again next time?

"where support for Quebec independence imploded and a new grievance was born in Albertans feeling ignored in that Halifax’s strike was receiving far more governmental assistance than Edmonton." - well that is shaping Canada's politics for decades.

"Nor was it as costly as in France or Turkey," - I wonder how politics go here? The loss of Calias and so much of Turkey is going to cause issues.

"While this damage was somewhat healed by England’s subsequent victory in the UEFA European Championship in 1996" - Go England!

"it was not enough to save Major in the subsequent election, leading to Labour’s first return to majority government since 1979." - guess Blair was destined to be PM... heh. Though with experience of government before hand in the Coalition I suspect Labour do things very differently to OTL, even given changed world conditions.

"the Atlanta Olympics continued under immense security - a failed bombing attempt by a Christian religious fundamentalist attempt intercepted before detonation." - tons of backlash going to happen there!

Did Siberia, FEK and Kaliningrad send teams @Sorairo?

"Two major questions arose from the conclusion to the Second Russian Civil War: what to do with WMDs and how to reconfigure Russia?" - indeed, weighty questions.

"with all nuclear powers in the world attending, though Israel declared due to their obscure policy that they were ‘merely observers’." - yeah BS there Israel. Just admit it at this point, its a 'known secret'.

"the World Disarmament Movement was founded in May 1996 by Elie Wiesel and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn," - uphill task in the West one thinks.

"Aksyuchits announced on April 21st that he was simply abolishing the nuclear arsenal immediately," - kinda makes sense due to the cost to maintain too.

"whose collection of warheads now stood at orders of magnitude above all other countries in the five figure zone." - getting those costs down would be important I suspect.

"China itself was eager to make everyone forget about their Siberian adventure and gladly accepted whatever the West was offering if it ensured their place in the new world order." - ah pragmatists in charge then.

"At the final agreement, it was declared among NATO, the Russian successor states, China, India and Israel that not only was nuclear warfare unacceptable, but that it would consider the creation of one by any country on Earth to be a collective declaration of war against them." - damm that's a powerful warning to many states.

"It was further agreed that America would pledge that by 2000 they would have only 1,000 warheads, with the UK, France and China being given a maximum of 100. India was given an allowance of 40, and Israel of 15." - finally Israel comes clean. That is a major reduction in warheads there. Trident won't cost the UK anywhere near as much ITTL.

"Facing immense political pressure from their populations, who were as one psychologist recalled, “Maddened by grief and loss,” the Russian speaking world would unanimously surrender their nukes." - surprised that Ukraine tried to keep them but was made to see sense.

"Another was Arkady Babchenko, a Ukrainian Jew who had served in the Red Army at gunpoint, was captured by Nashis and experienced a nuclear explosion before passing away from cancer in 2005 after writing a bestselling memoir of his time in the war." - there he is. Good he was rescued.

"Unfortunately, some 10% of the Ukrainian and Belarus missile operators that were involved in Allied Force would either commit suicide or die from health conditions brought on by the mental weight of the event." - I am surprised it is that low a number. Wonder how American service personnel faired here?

"though Belarus and Ukraine asked for and received an agreement for NATO membership as a condition, a process that would be joined by Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia as one group in 1999." - Wonder what NATO's 'mission' is by 2000 with no Russia?

"to tell them what to do was seen as an unacceptable form of neo-colonialism, particularly in the case of Pakistan." - oh no...

"The coup was led by Naseem Rana, the head of the ISI, who became the interim leader. He announced that Pakistan was withdrawing from the terms agreed to by Bhutto." - and he expected no retaliation?

"On October 28th 1996 after ignoring calls from the White House to step down or face consequences, American planes from the carrier strike force began to obliterate every nuclear facility in the country" - a strong message to Iran, Libya, et all too.

"Bhutto consequently agreed by diktat to scrap the nuclear program, while also cutting cold all aid to the Taliban and getting its military under control." - wonder what Bin Laden thinks of this?

"Lebed and Aksyuchits’s independence was recognised, as was that of the entirety of the Caucasian states, including Kalmykia" - good news.

"Turkey forsook economic reparations from Russia in return for its recognition of the establishment of a Circassian state on the Black Sea." - probably realised they would never get the cash...

"and including the entirety of the Kabardino-Balkar and Karachay-Cherkess republics, thus ending the existence of the Russian Black Sea Fleet." - I thought that stopped existing under nuclear fire?

"Estonia and Latvia got their pre-Stalinist occupation borders back," - was def going to happen.

"While again not a forced movement of people, it was very deliberately made to make life unlivable for ethnic Russians." - still got to be better than the irradiated Russian wastes?

"Finland would gain their 1941 borders again, but with a catch. This territory would be allotted to the Karelian, Mari El, Udmurt and Komi survivors of Petrograd’s genocide." - still its a home I guess?

"The Urallic states and Komi, as well as other hotspots around European Russia, were declared contaminated zones and were the subject of forced evacuations." - which makes sense, no one should live a hellhole like that.

"Turkic genocide survivors such as the Tatars would be given refuge in either Turkey or Circassia," - cannot have been many people unfortunately.

Did the Kurds cause any unrest during the Russian Civil war I wonder?

"It was agreed that European Russia itself was simply incapable of sustaining itself for the foreseeable future" - going to be many, many years before it can I bet.

"a presidential committee decided to make ‘Pushkingrad’ the name of the city," - that is a horrible name honestly.

"even in 2020, due to the horrific clean-up cost and mass movements of people, European Russia is a pale shadow of itself, with a lower population than either Siberia or the FEK." - somehow I am not surprised by this. I bet the region is a fav with UrbEx types though.

"it was agreed to restore the Romanov Dynasty to a ceremonial position as Tsars in the obliterated mess of European Russia." - wow, did not expect this.

"The battle for who would be Tsar was actually quite fierce, as there were competing claims within the Romanov family itself." - someone wants the job? Wow.

"the discovery of the ‘Hermitage Vault’ in northern Russia in June 1997 and the Imperial Crown Jewels within was hailed as a potentially literally miraculous find." - one hopes there was a ton of other heritage stuff in there considering how much has been lost.

"Symbolically, the coronation would be on the exact eightieth anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in November 1997" - irony.

"Others hoped that this ‘Novgorod Kingdom’ would forsake the warlike ways of old Musvcovy and act like the old Novgorod Republic, as a cultured European nation." - time would tell.

"It would be a monumental treaty that has defined most of the 21st Century to date, but it didn’t just end the MAD era" - the true end to the Cold War?

"When one old man in a tractor from a nearby farm drove into Belgrade and accidentally ran into a police barricade when he got lost, the crowd took it as a sign to strike," -somehow hilarious.

"agree to Western demands to hand over all war criminals connected to the Bosnian and Croat wars. This would include Milosevic himself," - good!

"Mandela had been pressured by the Clinton Administration and China to deal with Mugabe’s destabilisation." - interesting.

"On August 12th, Mandela launched the South African invasion of Zimbabwe." - Barlow was right though, this is better than Executive Outcomes doing it, if messier.

"Prominent Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai would become President, charting a frayed but superior course for the young country" - better than OTL one hopes.

"Mugabe’s trial in the Hague, where he was put on trial for genocide and sentenced to life in 2003." - terrible shame.

"led to a sizeable voluntary repatriation of White South Africans who felt Mandela’s handling of the incident had assuaged many of their fears about what a future South Africa would look like." - hope SA keeps to this optimism post Mandela.

"Executive Outcomes would fully move to Siberia in 2003, and become a substantial local employer." - I'm sure they where happy for the income.

"he ‘Arab Spring’ would begin in Libya, after Gaddafi had reluctantly agreed to the abolition of his WMD program following Pakistan’s Near Death Experience in October." - I can see how folk might think the Colonel weak.

"But it wasn’t just in Libya - in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and elsewhere, economic discontent from the Depression had boiled over and the desperate living conditions led to protests sweeping the Middle East" - this will get messy.

"Then, on March 7th 1997, a nuclear bomb exploded in Almaty, Kazakhstan." - there you are Bin Laden. Interesting target choice...

Great chapter there. Some deep repercussions for the world from the Russian mess.
 
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