The Death of Russia - TL

It can be too late now - but considering what was dubbed as the Second Depression - it will also hit the Japanese anime industry pretty badly with funding for productions slashed across the board since the whole shebang started.

So, how about the End of Evangelion airing in the early 2000's?

Anyways, there can be three strategies Bin Laden can use his three remaining nukes:
  • smuggling it all to Israel in order to destroy it
  • starting a war in Mesopotamia
  • the least likely: smuggling it to the west in order to start a war between it and a country of choice
 
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Quite possible, but it depends on the nation. Most of the NATO world is probably not going to undertake such actions as they would be unnecessary. China? A certainty, and you can bet every nickel that in this universe after what happened in Russia and their occupation of North Korea that both Europe and North America are going to get VERY bellicose with China, plus the need to rebuild the damage done and reconstruct their economies is going to kill China's economic rise (and India's too, as well as much of the growing third world) absolutely stone dead. Then add in the (likely) serious problems with nuclear fallout and contaminated foodstuffs and you see that China is going to have a very rough later 1990s and 2000s. I see the Communist Party as it is now trying to hang on, but after a decade of food shortages and a angry, selfish West leaning on Beijing every chance they got the PRC in its current form is going to have hard days ahead, easily the worst since the Cultural Revolution.

Once somebody finds out Bin Laden was responsible for that nuke in Stalingrad, he's screwed. For that matter, Islamic fundamentalism here is utterly screwed - the Middle Eastern states (outside of Israel of course) are now certainly looking at having an angry, bellicose West ordering them around and making it clear what will happen if they don't do as their told. Think what's happened in Iran and now extrapolate that across the entire region. Pakistan is in particular trouble - their nuclear program is basically complete in April 1996, and they won't give it up with nuclear-armed India next door no matter what concessions are made, but the world is probably also going to use a lot more stick than carrot now owing to the damage done by the War and the multiple monstrous humanitarian crises that now exist. if they are lucky, they end up cutting enough deals with China and others to head off India's almost-certain disdain for them, but their ability to have much influence in the West is now gone, and attempting to do things like support the Taliban are in this universe for the Pakistanis risking national death.
Neocons are gonna get a field day with all of this. Also the fallout is gonna damage Europe for a while. On the other hand it might reduce the populace's likelihood for supporting war since after all they been through they want a break. Unless Osama does something...

It's gonna be really messy for Muslim governments having to crackdown on fundamentalism and ending their support for it. There might be opposition from a lot of people but the threat of nuclear warfare might scare even way more people into obedience. This could lead to a series of terrorist attacks as retaliation which could get messy real quick. Also the Palestinian cause is going to get hit very hard with this.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Based on the targetting pattern, the nuke was likely aimed at CFB Edmonton.

Was your family living near Spruce Grove?

Halifax though is gonna be a mess. Depending if the nuke was aimed at the Naval Base or Shearwater
 
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Based on the targetting pattern, the nuke was likely aimed at CFB Edmonton.

Was your family living near Spruce Grove?

Halifax though is gonna be a mess.
I'm not as familiar with Edmonton as I am with Calgary, but no, they don't live in Spruce Grove. (Thankfully).
 
In reality, the West is much more likely to entwine much sooner and even more deeply with China than in OTL because "the world has to be rebuilt and that requires coordinating our economies. Nothing is more important than the economy, to hell with the fact that China officially professes one of the ideologies that caused this disaster".

Surely no one would want to saber-rattle threatening military action and war against nuclear powers knowing what nuclear weapons can do. It has now been proven that it is possible to simply bomb out of spite.

In any case, it is likely that the West decides to launch an orgy of revenge against some defenseless country that they can pound at will while shouting that they are doing justice.
 
Just wondering will Israel admit that it has nukes. And what consueqences it would has? Definitely Syria, Iraq and Iran are not going to be happy.

An earlier Iraq War or overthrow of a certain Libyan Colonel?

In OTL Gaddafi was smart enough to go more friendlier with the West after 9/11 so he might try approachment earlier ITTL. Not sure what Saddam would do. He wasn't very rational even as brutal dictator and might still cause problems. But I don't know if there is war against Iraq.
 
Yes. Probably both if we considered Saddam and Gaddafi in fact were interested in gaining nukes and Saddam has chemical weapons (supplied by West but who cares) and he has used CW against kurds (evidence of he will use nukes if he achieve nukes)
And Gaddafi had backed terrorism in the past (as the families of the 270 killed at Lockerbie can attest) as well.
 
Just wondering will Israel admit that it has nukes. And what consueqences it would has? Definitely Syria, Iraq and Iran are not going to be happy.
Doubtful, especially if (as was suggested 8n this thread) the West starts yelling that anyone who has nuclear weapons and is not part of NATO will face the immediate and total destruction of their country. The rest of the world would rightly call this bluff if Israel admits to having nuclear weapons and the West does not follow through on its fire and brimstone threats.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Most likely, it will be an open secret that no one wants to actually deal with.

With the loss of Royal Military College, it is possible that Royal Roads University may have to take over training officers.
 
Doubtful, especially if (as was suggested on this thread) the West starts yelling that anyone who has nuclear weapons and is not part of NATO will face the immediate and total destruction of their country. The rest of the world would rightly call this bluff if Israel admits to having nuclear weapons and the West does not follow through on its fire and brimstone threats.
I don't see why the USA & Nato would go Turian hierarchy/AANW-style after this.

The economic depression and the million lives lost pulls inwards and away from the rest of the world after this. Kind of like France and the UK after ww1, I would speculate that we would see the west withdrawing from the 3rd world. Also, let's remember that for Africa and the middle east, then depression means starvation. Unrest, either Troubles style or civil wars, are going to spike.

I would suspect that this would imply increased nuclear prolifiration, not less. South Africa, Brazil, Iraq, Iran are all likely candidates with places like Indonesia, Libya and Egypt being unlikely, but still potential nuclear newcomers.

Also, let's remember that the Russian civil isn't over yet. Beyond the likely handful of tactical nukes left with remnants of Soviet and Nashists troops, then Bin Laden still has his 3 nukes, and he may take his sweet time in using them for maxium effect. Potentially, we might still see a decapitation strike at Washington or Beijing.
 
I don't see why the USA & Nato would go Turian hierarchy/AANW-style after this.

The economic depression and the million lives lost pulls inwards and away from the rest of the world after this. Kind of like France and the UK after ww1, I would speculate that we would see the west withdrawing from the 3rd world. Also, let's remember that for Africa and the middle east, then depression means starvation. Unrest, either Troubles style or civil wars, are going to spike.

I would suspect that this would imply increased nuclear prolifiration, not less. South Africa, Brazil, Iraq, Iran are all likely candidates with places like Indonesia, Libya and Egypt being unlikely, but still potential nuclear newcomers.

Also, let's remember that the Russian civil isn't over yet. Beyond the likely handful of tactical nukes left with remnants of Soviet and Nashists troops, then Bin Laden still has his 3 nukes, and he may take his sweet time in using them for maxium effect. Potentially, we might still see a decapitation strike at Washington or Beijing.
I don't see it clearly either.

But a popular stance in this thread seems to be that the West would immediately go into Terminator mode and begin unceremoniously laying waste to any country that LOOKS like it MIGHT be interested in acquiring nuclear weapons.

That, of course, while on their own streets, police forces are gunning down anyone who looks remotely right-wing. In addition to organizing mass arrests and systematic purges as if Stalin were in charge of the West.

Whereas anyone advocating nuclear disarmament/non-proliferation will apparently be shunned as a Soviet agent (never mind that in OTL that's considered a conspiracy theory spread to discredit pacifism).

All of which is pretty unlikely.
 
Tbf I do think the ME will suffer a series of civ wars and such considering Russia collapses since they're more connected to the Soviets and are vulnerable in the first place.

The western world will also suffer but the consequence of it should be less severe - as other ppl said it should act like the 2008 recession and the busting of the Japanese real estate bubble but the world would recover from it.

But, at the end, ppl are still going to knock against the population declines of otl which should be more pronounced ittl as ppl become more nihilist with only a few developed nations not having this problem at all.
 
I kind of wonder how cold earth going to get in the next decade as all that debris and ash fills the atmosphere.
Global Food supply already probably bad with Russian grain no longer available. Guess people in even the first world are going to be tightening their belts for several years.
IIRC in early 1990s Russia was NOT a great grain exporter; in fact they had to import grain. Only the reforms in early 2000s changed it. The bigger problem might be the ash you mentioned and radioactive contamination, dangerous among other things to the Ukrainian grain. Would people be willing to buy grain from terrains co close to a nuclear disaster? Contamination does not care about borders.
 
Looking at Canada in particular, here's how I look at this now:

Losing Borden is consequential from a psyche aspect more than anything else, as Borden is far enough away from major population centers that civilian casualties will be fairly minimal. However, an airburst nuke there is likely to be visible across Toronto's northern suburbs (especially if the hit is at night), which is definitely going to have an impact. Kingston is rather more serious - you've just cut off the primary rail lines between Toronto and Montreal and there are likely no ways around it (as both CN and CP's bypasses by then had had the rails removed) and Highway 401 is now definitely out of commission for at least a few weeks. It passes far enough away from RMC (presumably the target here) that it will more than anything be a matter of clearing the debris out of the way. Queens University is now history, which is a major loss for Canadian education, and you've probably just resulted in ~15K-20K civilian deaths and a lot of injuries, which will surely swamp hospitals in Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto and everywhere in between.

And then....Edmonton and Halifax. Oh boy....

The loss of these two very literally changes Canada's politics in a dramatic fashion. Canada in the 1990s was seeing something of a revival of sorts of Western conservatism, which was primarily based in Alberta. The destruction of Edmonton (call it 150K-200K dead there as a result) ends that revival, full stop. They now need Ottawa and the two larger provinces out east to carry them and pay for the rebuilding of Edmonton, and the destruction there means Canada's oil production gets cut by at least two-thirds for several years before its all repaired, which will be a high priority but will take time. Alberta can forget about trying to push around Ottawa in this world for a generation at least, if not more. The province's government will surely shift to Calgary, which will make it the undisputed center of the province for decades to come. This also means logistically the northern regions are gonna be hard to service for a while yet, but that's repairable. Alberta will still be an oil producer (and the resources pumped into fixing the damage will result in new jobs and income there), but the "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" sort of attitude towards Ontario and Quebec is now as dead as the Social Credit Party.

Halifax, if anything from a social and economic front, is worse. Much worse. The Atlantic provinces in 1996 were living with the end of the cod fishery (devastating to Newfoundland and bad everywhere else) and now their economic and transportation hub just got glassed. Nova Scotia was struggling in the 1990s before this, now....the province will be safely called a failed state, and Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick won't be a whole lot better off. Getting jobs and economic life back to the province here is now going to take priority over anything else, but that will take money that only Ontario and Quebec have. (British Columbia will have its hands full helping now-destitute Alberta.) Halifax will get rebuilt - it kinda has to be as it is the only real good deep water port in the region - but rebuilding the economy of the Maritimes is gonna be hard as hell, and jobs and income will take precedence over EVERYTHING else. Sydney's steel works will continue to operate (it was a financial hole at the time, but in this world the jobs are more important) and the coal mines of Nova Scotia likely will be as well, and to hell if it pollutes or the mines need big bucks to be made safe. Likewise, Canada will surely begin re-establishing its fishing fleets for other fish, and in this universe foreign trawlers on the Grand Banks are just as likely to get their crews hauled off to jail and their vessels sunk by the Canadian Navy than run off by the Coast Guard. As there will be a need to get jobs and money to the regions, ANYTHING that works will surely be chased down, particularly in the Maritimes.

Basically, Ontario and Quebec will be deciding what happens in Canada for the next 30 or 40 years, and since the other provinces have no chance of rebuilding otherwise trying to fight that is going to be impossible. For Canadian Conservatives, this is bad news indeed. For the Quebec separatists, its probably worse because Ottawa now will be forced to lean heavily on Quebec to help rebuild the country, which means the Parizeau-esque separatist nonsense is probably going to go over like a lead balloon in Ottawa. They'll probably get told to knock it off or face sedition charges in this universe. The Reform Party has been absolutely crippled by the losses in Alberta, which means the merging of the Conservatives and their evolution into a party capable of governing is going to be massively delayed if not halted entirely. Jean Chretien and his successor now will pretty much be Prime Minister for as long as they want to be, but the policies of the 1990s aimed at improving Canada's government finances will be scrapped almost immediately - in the midst of such a depression and with two of Canada's largest cities destroyed by Russian nuclear weapons, Keynesianism and direct government involvement in the economy is going to be the order of the day, along with additional help from the US and probably UK and Europe. Canada's industrial base erosion of the 1990s also will surely be stopped dead, out of a need to keep jobs in Canada and raise finances to help fight the Depression and rebuild what has been destroyed.
 
I wonder how the April 10th event would affect concerts, movie production, and others just causing some producers or directors to delay the release date of the movie or either cancel the planned release of the upcoming movie since pop culture has been affected when studios might face problems when their budget is close to drying up or facing financial difficulties. For music, I don't know if these events could rapidly affect or influence the development of pop, rock, and hip-hop, especially the 2pac and other rappers if it is likely to survive or not.

And don't forget that Eurovision will be affected, by the PoD, when tanks began to roll into Kremlin which means Russia's entrance into the Eurovision will be delayed or continued but sending a representative of fleeing artists to represent the Kaliningrad/Pushkingrad government and the EBU is going mad by expelling NSF-controlled Russia from being a member of the said organization before things could go out of control and the April 10th nuclear attack will definitely affect the 1996 elections and NBA as well as NFL seasons.

This will affect the keychain of the events:
 
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