the Death of Oskar Lafontaine in 1990

i working on TL were the DDR (east Germany) still exist as a North Korea analog
and how West Germany evolve differnten as OTL

one POD is the 1990 German federal election
OTL were SPD candidate Oskar Lafontaine is attacked with a knife by a mentally deranged woman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Lafontaine
but WI he is killed and chaos brakes lose in SPD ?
has SPD chairman Hans Jochen Vogel to be SPD Chancellor candidate again ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Jochen_Vogel
or gona be Björn Engholm the new Chancellor candidate ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björn_Engholm
With the Death of Oskar Lafontaine the SPD will change there policy
away from His "far left" policy towards the "New stile" of Gerhard Schörder ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schröder
 
But he was attacked on April 25th in 1990. I don't see how the German reunification could be stopped at that time.
 
I felt the urge to sprinkle my computer with holy water and perform an exorcism after reading that name on this forum...*shudders* How I detest that man...

But, to stay on topic, Mr Lafontaine was an ardent opponent of reunification. He misjudged the West German reaction to his -as was perceived by most Germans back then- small-minded preaching about the enormous costs reuninfication would mean in the long run*. Of course, he also swung what some Germans have come to call the "Nazi mace", arguing that because of German original sin (the 3rd Reich), reunification should not happen because the old ghosts would rise from their crypts again and all that tired leftist claptrap. It obviously did not work out for him.
His surviving the knife attack OTL did not seem to garner him any sympathies although he never missed an opportunity to show off his scar on TV. Had he been killed (even I would not have wished this on him), the most likely follow-up candidate would have been "handsome Björn" Engholm IIRC but the election would have gone to the CDU/CSU and FDP in any case.
The rough timetable to reunification of the two Germanies following the German timetable had already basically been agreed upon on 13 Feb 1990 during a meeting of the two German and the French, UK, US and USSR foreign ministers. As for a further slide left for the SPD, it would not have been likely. Willy Brandt (one of the last truly great German Social Democrats, IMHO, the last one alive is Helmut Schmidt) was very much in favor of reunification and his opinion carried a LOT of weight in Germany.
IOT turn the DDR into a European North Korea, I think the POD would have to start with Gorbacev being ousted and Soviet hardliners taking his place so a Tiananmen solution of the situation in the DDR could have been made possible at all since the Soviet troops in the DDR were ordered to stay in their barracks IOTL. It also would have meant lots of bloodshed in the other Soviet satellite states that were also in the midst of (mostly) peaceful revolution. The evil old men led by Honecker and Mielke were just crazy and zealous enough to try their hand at shooting unarmed protesters and stay in power through copious bloodshed.

*(That he was right after all makes me hate him even more)
 
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But he was attacked on April 25th in 1990. I don't see how the German reunification could be stopped at that time.

But, to stay on topic, Mr Lafontaine was an ardent opponent of reunification. ....
...... Had he been killed (even I would not have wished this on him), the most likely follow-up candidate would have been "handsome Björn" Engholm IIRC but the election would have gone to the CDU/CSU and FDP in any case.
The rough timetable to reunification of the two Germanies following the German timetable had already basically been agreed upon on 13 Feb 1990 during a meeting of the two German and the French, UK, US and USSR foreign ministers. As for a further slide left for the SPD, it would not have been likely. Willy Brandt (one of the last truly great German Social Democrats, IMHO, the last one alive is Helmut Schmidt) was very much in favor of reunification and his opinion carried a LOT of weight in Germany.

Perhaps the date of Adelheid Streidel's attack on Lafontaine is only a relatively minor problem. The German language edition of wikipedia informs me that she had undergone psychiatric treatment as early as the early eighties, and had stopped taking her prescribed medication in May 1989. To have her deranged enough to attack Lafontaine at an earlier date, even before the fall of the Berlin Wall, is not at all unrealistic.

But I have a much bigger problem with a deadly attack by Streidel on Lafontaine as a POD: it certainly would have had important consequences for the development of the party called die Linke (simply: 'the Left') in OTL, perhaps this party would not even exist with its present composition. But given the fact that Lafontaine was an opponent of re-unification, as Jotun pointed out, his death cannot do anything to prevent this unification, perhaps rather the opposite would have been true (I know that you did not expressly say that his death helps prevent re-unification, however the two preceding posters seem to have taken this for granted).

While I am looking forward very much to reading more on this, there is still another problem with East Germany as a "North Korea analog". While I agree completely with what Jotun wrote about Soviet hardliners replacing Gorbachev and about the bloodshed potentially caused by Honecker and Mielcke and other Eastern bloc politicians, I think it is unlikely to have a "North Korea analog" in East Germany, if this is taken to mean "East Germany stays communist while the rest of Central and Eastern Europe turns democratic".

A "Tiananmen square solution" to the protests in East Germany would only be possible with Soviet military backing. If this is out of the question, but Honecker et al. try to supress the protests violently anyway, violence from above might very well be countered with violence from below, with individual soldiers or even officers joining the insurrection, which might get support from West Germany or other Western countries, possibly in the shape of armed intervention. Once this happens, there will probably some kind of race among the East German armed forces who can turn around their guns the fastest.

Edit: Several politicians were considered for Adelheid Streidel as potential targets for her attack, including Genscher and Kohl (still according to the German language wikipedia article on Streidel). If she temporarily cripples or even kills one of these two, this would probably have a much bigger impact than a deadly attack on Lafontaine.


 
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thanks for answer

in TL "Tale of two Germanys"
the Major POD is this:
the East German Military NVA & STASI take Tiananmen solution
and start to shoot on protesters in city of Leibzig on 9 October 1989.
thanks for advice for Soviet military backing, Jotun and AMF

back to West Germany with out the German reunification.
i look a way to push "Die Republikaner" over 5% to win seats in the German parliament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Republikaner
with chaos in SPD by Lafontaine death and DDR crack down of protesters.
i think "Die Republikaner" have real chance to get in parliament 1990
not much but that change until Jürgen Möllemann join them in 1993
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jürgen_Möllemann
cick out FDP because Briefbogen-Affäre and his far right opinion.
he make "Die Republikaner" to Four Largest political party in Germany.
while "Die Grüne" brakes up in Realist and Radical wings and drop unter 5%

"handsome Björn" Engholm had his problems
he had to resigned because the Barschel affair. one of most bizarre political affair in BRD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Barschel#.22Waterkant-Aff.C3.A4re.22

wat about the Alternative
Adelheid Streidel kills Helmut Kohl
and Wolfgang Schäuble als Chancellor of Germany in a wheelchair ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Schäuble
now i start to shudder...

note on Lafontaine
he sufferer from Prostate cancer and will late this year announce
if he resigned from German politic for good
so there hope for trekchu and Jotun
 
Republikaner becoming 4th largest party? Doubftul. Again, I'd like to re-emphasize that the POD needs to be prior November 9th, 1989 (Tianamen-style crackdown may be a possibility, but I'm not sure which DDR chair would have had the ruthlessness and the willpower to do that... Honecker was a sick old man, and Krenz, eh forget him... :rolleyes: )

The idea of a North Korea style DDR is vile and vicious and needs to be pursued, however... :D
 
"handsome Björn" Engholm had his problems
he had to resigned because the Barschel affair. one of most bizarre political affair in BRD. 
The Barschel affair was certainly bizarre and one of the biggest scandals in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany.
The gist of this was the following (quote from wikipedia)
"Barschel's media adviser Reiner Pfeiffer told German news magazine Der Spiegel that he was ordered by Barschel to spy on the SPD's top candidate for the upcoming state elections Björn Engholm with the aim of bringing an anonymous charge against Engholm because of suspicions of tax evasion. Pfeiffer also claimed that he was given orders to install a bugging device in Barschel's phone and accuse the SPD of being the initiator."

Barschel was then found dead and fully clothed in a bathtub in the Hotel Beau Rivage in Geneva. To this day there is still a controversy whether he committed suicide or was murdered.

My point is: in the time frame of German unification (1989 to 1990) Engholm had, as far as I can remember no problems with the Barschel affair. On the contrary, he was swept into the office of state prime minister (Ministerpräsident) by a landslide victory in the Schleswig-Holstein elections and was helped by the fact that his former opponent had tried to use these "dirty tricks" on him. As far as I know, Engholm's problems with the affair came only much later, in 1993, when he was forced to resign after it was found out that he knew much earlier about Pfeiffer's activities than he had admitted.
 
The Barschel affair was certainly bizarre and one of the biggest scandals in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany.
The gist of this was the following (quote from wikipedia)
"Barschel's media adviser Reiner Pfeiffer told German news magazine Der Spiegel that he was ordered by Barschel to spy on the SPD's top candidate for the upcoming state elections Björn Engholm with the aim of bringing an anonymous charge against Engholm because of suspicions of tax evasion. Pfeiffer also claimed that he was given orders to install a bugging device in Barschel's phone and accuse the SPD of being the initiator."

Barschel was then found dead and fully clothed in a bathtub in the Hotel Beau Rivage in Geneva. To this day there is still a controversy whether he committed suicide or was murdered.

My point is: in the time frame of German unification (1989 to 1990) Engholm had, as far as I can remember no problems with the Barschel affair. On the contrary, he was swept into the office of state prime minister (Ministerpräsident) by a landslide victory in the Schleswig-Holstein elections and was helped by the fact that his former opponent had tried to use these "dirty tricks" on him. As far as I know, Engholm's problems with the affair came only much later, in 1993, when he was forced to resign after it was found out that he knew much earlier about Pfeiffer's activities than he had admitted.

Don't I know it...*groans* *points to own location* Heide Simonis! :mad:

:D
 
i still work on the TL, geting the bug out befor publication in this forum

need Information about CDU
i hear that during 1990`s was a CDU opposition against Chancellor Helmut Kohl
they try to ouster Kohl as chairmen of CDU and as Chancellor for West Germany
is that true and who were there ?
 
During the Nineties? Before 1990, there was some opposition centered around general secretary Heiner Geißler, Baden-Württemberg's minister president Lothar Späth, Gerhard Stoltenberg, Kurt Biedenkopf and Rita Süssmuth, IIRC. But afterwards? All of his inner-party opponents had lost their influence. There was some critic, but all in all, they never came close to being able to topple him, which MIGHT have been possible in 1989 (if there hadn't been the reunification thing...)
 
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interesting
without the reunification thing and East German Tiananmen solution

Kohl become NOT "the Chancellor of the reunification"
so he can lost influence inside CDU and get ouster

so Lothar Späth sounds ideal for TL at first,
He was popular minister-president of Baden-Württemberg (B-W)
because he transform B-W to a technology center.

but he was involve in "Traumschiff-Affäre" in OTL
(after called after a German TV soap, in U.S. would called it "Love-Boat Affare")
Späth was invited by CEO of SEL for a "freebee" vacation in Aegean Sea
later SEL got a purchase order for fax machines to all authorities in B-W
witout get a invitation to bid (ITB)
also had Späth "invitations" from other Companys
He resigned in januar 13, 1991 as minister-president of Baden-Württemberg (B-W)

So Lothar Späth is the Chancellor of Germany in 1991 and has to resigned
because "Traumschiff-Affäre" (wat is now a major scandal)
would be the first German Chancellor who has resigned
sounds even better for my TL !

so the President of Germany Richard von Weizsäcker
has to select a new Chancellor...
 
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