The Death of Göring and the Victory of the Luftwaffe

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hitler was never really enthusuiastic about Sea Lion (supporting the argument that he only became completely mad later in the war). If you are looking for something he might consider how about an airborne attempt to seize just the Isle of Wight (possibly 1 division brought in by sea in a followup). The operation might be an initial success ultimate failure scenario. It could draw a lot of RN light forces into a position where they would be vulnerable to airstrikes and the resulting destroyer losses could hurt them in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Tom
 
Tom_B said:
Hitler was never really enthusuiastic about Sea Lion (supporting the argument that he only became completely mad later in the war). If you are looking for something he might consider how about an airborne attempt to seize just the Isle of Wight (possibly 1 division brought in by sea in a followup). The operation might be an initial success ultimate failure scenario. It could draw a lot of RN light forces into a position where they would be vulnerable to airstrikes and the resulting destroyer losses could hurt them in the Battle of the Atlantic.
Good point. I just wanted something to signal a severe case of German victory disease. :)

Hmm, the Isle of Wight-idea sound good, Tom. It could be the Crete-like operation that even with heavy loses on both sides finally brought the Brits (under Lord Halifax) to the negotiating table?!

Now that we are talking Sea Lion and such. For the BoB, I was considering continious attacks on RN bases and surface vessels with heavy bombers and KLK air units - Strictly military targets, though. Do you btw have any idea of Scapa Flow's air defences in OTL? I can't seem to find any real references. Anyway, meanwhile the lighter Luftwaffe units engage in heavy interdiction and fighter sweeps over most of Southern Britain. With more (long range) fighters than OTL and a large and stable training organization the Germans should actually be able to win an attritional air war, right? Oh, and the Brits lacking the Spitfire will no doubt help a little as well. ;) The Germans are basically aiming to badly damage - or destroy - the RN and RAF and thus their ability to protect Britain and safeguard its oversea trade routes.

Oh, and I think I'll have Bomber Command try a large scale raid on Hamburg ala OTL... only less successfull. And Luftwaffe looking into high altitude bombers with pressurized cabines etc etc after having meet the Short Sterling in combat!

Once again thanks for your comments and good ideas, Tom.

Best regards!

- B.
 
I always thought that a failed sealion could be more disastrous for the brits than for the germans. Nazis loose a couple of divisions, but british half their destroyers? In this timeline, anyway, the germans seem to have three consecutive chances to strike hard at the Royal Navy: Norway, Dunquerke and the Isle of Wight... At some point, naval looses will be too hard to keep on the war...
Very intersting timeline, Bluenote. Keep it on!
 
Dunkerque Bloody Dunkerque

Dunkerque Bloody Dunkerque
There goes the siren that warns of the air raid
Then comes the sound of the guns sending flak
Out for the scramble we’ve got to get airborne
Got to get up for the coming attack.

Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines
Remove all the wheelblocks there’s no time to waste
Gathering speed as we head down the runway
Gotta get airborne before it’s too late.

Running, scrambling, flying
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Run, live to fly, fly to live. aces high.

- Iron Maiden, Aces High.

You can’t take back, that one mistake
That still lives on after life it takes
In that one day, that changed our lives
And bitter memories are left behind.

- The Offspring, The End of the Line.

After the rapid and impressive advances by the German Wehrmacht in the opening stages of Opeartion Hermann, the French government found itself forced to flee Paris and soon initiated armistice-negotiations. Meanwhile the French ground forces in central and southern France continued to resist along with the French 1. Army around Lille, that basically were caught alongside the British Expeditionary Force in the Dunkerque-pocket in Northwestern France - the last remnant of the Allied forces in Belgium had either given up or been pushed south into France in mid-May.

There was one bright spot seen from London, though, and that was Royal Tank Regiment performance against General Model’s Panzer forces near Arras. For some time it seemed like the Royal Tankers and infantry troops from the Durham Light would stop the Germans and reverse the tides of war (at least in that area) for the time being. The British Matilda’s seemed superior to anything the Germans had, which led to some later misconceptions regarding the value of the Matilda tank. Fast and deceisive action by the Luftwaffe’s cannon armed Stuka’s and some of the increasingly popular and called for Panzerknacker’s quickly put out that last glimmer of hope. Left on the Arras-battlefield was some 70 burning British tanks and numerous armoured personel carriers along with lorries and heapes of dead men. General Model later decorated several men from the ground-to-air liasion command, who had put themselves in the thick of battle to vector in close air support. The actions of said men, and Luftwaffe FlaK crews – calmly having turned their deadly 88mm AA guns at the onrushing British tanks -, did much to create an unbreakable bond between the Heer and Luftwaffe – as later seen in the Eastern War.

The catastrophical Battle of Arras and the campaign in France in general finally led to the Chamberlain governments downfall as Labour, the Conservatives, Eden’s War Party and Lord Halifax’s Oldguard Tories, and the Liberals, led by the Chamberlain-critical Clement Davies, found the present PM wanting to say the very least. Precious time was lost while Atlee, Bevin, Eden and Halifax-supporters in the House of Commons tried to find a new compromise candidate fro PM. For some time Eden hoped to be the man, as did Labours’ Clement Atlee, but after nearly a week of at times quite heathed debate, Lord Halifax – having the King’s backing – emerged as the new Prime Minister.

Once at the helm, Lord Halifax found the situation on the continent to be worse than expected – the French 1. Army, and the BEF itself, were being hammred and it was only a question of time before the German Heer along with the Luftwaffe and the few Kriegsmarine units involved drove the Allied Forces in the shrinking Dunkerque Pocket – the French 1.Army had finally been dislodged from Lille and was now being routed towards Dunkerque - into the sea, or more likely forced them to surrender. Halifax therefore ordered the implementation of General John Gort’s Operation Dynamo, a plan to evacuate of troops and equipment from Dunkerque.

The situation became worse when General Sir Edmund Ironside, the Chief of the Imperial General Staff – CIGS – was shot down on his way to the Continent. General Ironside had wanted to brief General Gort, the BEF’s commander-in-chief, in person and get a first hand impression of the situation. PM Halifax blamed the RAF for not having provided sufficient escorts to CIGS’ flight, but in reality the German Me-109 led by the infamous Oesau has brushed the escorts aside and downed every single one of the Hawker Hurricanes along with Ironside’s transporter. The death of General Ironside would lead to some animosity between Number 10 and RAF’s Fighter Command, and more unfortunately to Halifax accepting Bomber Command’s proposal of City Bombing...

General Gort was in truly dire straites. His men were running out of supplies, especially the vital anti-tank and anti-aircraft ammunition, but also other essentials such as food and fuel. The Germans seeming hell-bent on conquering Dunkerque just kept coming. The only thing keeping them from overrunning the city was ironically the French 1. Army, that had regrouped and now stubbornly stood its ground first behind the River Lys, and later behind the Yser as German forces outflanked their postitions. Several occasions of helicopter-scare, however, nearly sent the French troops retreating, but younger officers now held command in the 1. Army and proved to the world that the French could still fight and fight hard. The French resistance would be to no awail, though, as the British – even troops being repatriated from German POW-camps after the war - blamed the French, along with the Americans and Soviets, for their defeats.

Admiral Ramsay, who was in charge of Operation Dynamo, planned on using a combination of destroyers and transports to evacuate BEF-troops via Dunkerques fine, but rather small habour. However, the harbour soon became unusable due to sunken and wrecked ships as Luftwaffe and the KLK pressed home their attacks again and again, while more and more Heer artillery were brought forth to take part in the mayhem. Ramsay therefore shifted focus to the nearby beaches and begun to evacuate troops from them instead. This had one serious side-effect – the beaches were not sheltered in any way, nor protected from air attack. Even though several AA guns were being placed and the ships themselves had been issued with more anti-aircraft guns – due to Churchill’s foresight -, the beaches soon turned into a regular slaughter house – the shallow water turning a rather omnious red colour.

Between 26th of May and 3rd of June, 1940, the Royal Navy tried its best to bring back as many British troops as possible. Their task was doomed from day one, however, as the Germans dominated the sky above Dunkerque completely. Still, the gallant sailors carried on with suicidal recklessness and bravery.

All in all some 600 ships of all sorts – even civilian vessels -, participated in Opr.Dynamo, and some 200 were sunk by air attacks, mines or Schnell-boots attacks. Adding to that, the RN lost 18 destroyers – nearly half the number committed-, 12 transports and even 2 cruisers, that had tried to give fire support to the retreating ground troops. In the end, Royal Navy and civilian crafts brought some 20,000 men home from Dunkerque – it had been a devasting disaster.

The RAF, be it Bomber Command or Fighter Command, played litlle role in Opr. Dynamo as the Luftwaffe were able to intercept them either to the south or out over the Channel. Thus the catastrophe at Dunkerque further alienated RAF as both troops and sailors felt let down, to state it rather politely, by Fighter Command. Admiral Ramsay would later write an infamous book , Betrayed, where he solely lay blame for the Dunkerque disaster on the shoulders of RAF.

The French General Weygand, having seen the British abadoning, or trying to abandon, the French, resigned his position as did the French Prime Minister, Paul Reynaud. On the 7th of June, Phillip Petain, the hero of the Great War, took power and immediately and without further ado accepted German peace terms. Under the terms of the armistice, northern France and the regions north of Vichy – Petains seat of government - came under German occupation. Luftwaffe’s Construction Brigades soon swarmed over the place, building new airfields and enlarging older ones as thay had done in Norway and Denmark.

During the Battle for France nearly 2 million French soldiers were taken prisoner. An estimated 420,000 Allied soldiers, mostly French, were killed defending France whereas only some 35,000 German soldiers had lost their lives during the invasion.

The British and French, both politicians and military officers alike, had seriously underestimated the strength of the German arms, and had payed the ultimate price for it. France was utterly defeated and Britain, once more, stood alone against a Continental superpower.
 
Karlos said:
(...) At some point, naval looses will be too hard to keep on the war... Very intersting timeline, Bluenote. Keep it on!
My thoughts exactly, Karlos. And thank you! And a new post, the Dunkerque-thingie, has just been posted above...

My regards!

- mr.B.
 
Good but I think it is a notch too much improved than OTL.

If the Luftwaffe is inflicting that intensity of losses on the RN they would switch to only night runs, so I don't think the RN losses can be that high. Destroyers were not that easy to hit esp. if the aircrew is not specially trained in bombing warships. And even if hit the destroyes proved more survivable than anticipated.

Even with a switch to night transits I would expect a minimum of 50,000 men to make it back home. Somewhere I read that bombs were less lethal on beaches the sand absorbing much of the nastiness.

One thing you might throw in is a raid on Manston which in OTL was usually badly overcrowded during Dynamo. The Luftwaffe would have a good chance at catching a couple fighters on the ground.

Tom
 
Mr. Bluenote, I'm really enjoying your timeline. Very well thought out.

I have a suggestion for the use of your two carriers if the Germans can get them finished in time. What about a Pearl Harbor style attack on the British fleet at Scapa Flow, perhaps combined with a heavy bomber strike. Maybe you could call it "Rheinübung." If successful, it could be the thing that finishes off the British psychologically. If it's unsuccessful, it could be a good place for a German setback that could have implications in the Pacific vis Japanese planning. What do you think? It could be an overreach with just two carriers but they may be emboldened by their other successes.

Also, will the British be attempting to destroy the French fleet at Oran since Churchills been sacked?

Thanks for the hard work.
 
Fearless Leader said:
Aha excellent! No Goring to screw up Dunkirk!

Keep it up!
Thanks, FL! It's good to hear! And I will, nay worries! :)

Tom_B said:
Good but I think it is a notch too much improved than OTL.

If the Luftwaffe is inflicting that intensity of losses on the RN they would switch to only night runs (...) Destroyers were not that easy to hit esp. if the aircrew is not specially trained in bombing warships. (...) Even with a switch to night transits I would expect a minimum of 50,000 men to make it back home. Somewhere I read that bombs were less lethal on beaches the sand absorbing much of the nastiness.
You might be right, Tom - I'm not really that much into naval warfare and related subjects. Most of my in-dept knowledge comes from Michael Tamelander's Slaget om Vesteuropa - Luftkrig, Strategi og Politik i Sommeren 1940 (The Battle of Western Europe - Airwar, Strategy and Politic in the Summer of 1940) and he states (p.126, if anyone has the book) that there were only three sea lanes open for the British; Y, Z and X, so with Luftwaffe recon planes roaming at will the in- and outbound destroyers etc etc will be easy pickings. Whether or not night runs will help them that much, considering the few lanes and the fact that the objective is well known is an open question. According to Tamerlander the one thing that really helped the Allies at Dunkerque was the fact the several oil tanks at the harbour was burning and thick smoke covered the approaches. Furthermore the Germans are - in this ATL at least - trained to attack ships and they have the planes to do it - no high level bombings, but torpedo and dive bombers do it up close and personal -, and I suppose thus the correct ammunition.

You're btw right, Tom; sand and soft soil is not good ground for explosives as it absorbes some of the punch, but two things has to be taken into consideration: the beaches will be closely packed and the German aircrafts are as likely to use guns as they are to drop bombes.

In regards to the numbers, Tamerlander claim that the Brits expected no more than some 30,000 men to be evacuated in OTL...

Should I rewrite it?!

pfeifer said:
Mr. Bluenote, I'm really enjoying your timeline. Very well thought out.

I have a suggestion for the use of your two carriers if the Germans can get them finished in time. What about a Pearl Harbor style attack on the British fleet at Scapa Flow, perhaps combined with a heavy bomber strike. (...)If it's unsuccessful, it could be a good place for a German setback that could have implications in the Pacific vis Japanese planning.

Also, will the British be attempting to destroy the French fleet at Oran since Churchills been sacked?

Thanks for the hard work.

I'm glad you like it, Pfeifer, and thank you for your comments and kind words.

I actually have the idea that the Germans will try a Tarranto-style, or PH-style if you will, attack on Scapa Flow - which was why I was interested in its air defences. Or perhaps I'll use the one carrier - the KM Göring as bait to lure out the RN?

In regards to the Japanese and Italians; I'm toying with the idea of having the Brits letting them take what they will as long as its not British. But I'm not to sure about that - will the Brits be that cynical? "Take what you will, the damned French deserves it anyway!"

Hmm, in accordance with the above, might the Brits try to get the Italians to do their dirty work at Oran?

Thanks again, Pfeifer, but it's not hard work - it's fun... and educational at the same time. :)

I'm sorry if I'm not all that coherent as I've just returned from Job - hope I made some sense at least.

Best regards and all!

- Bluenote.
 
I'm glad your considering an carrier strike on Scapa Flow. I've always wondered what the Germans would have been able to do with a couple of carriers. As far as Oran goes, if I were the British I don't know if I'd trust the Itallians to do the job for me, but then again, we are talking about them going against the French. :D I guess mainly I was wondering if anybody else in the British government would have had the guts to go after their former ally's fleet.
 
pfeifer said:
I'm glad your considering an carrier strike on Scapa Flow. I've always wondered what the Germans would have been able to do with a couple of carriers. As far as Oran goes, if I were the British I don't know if I'd trust the Itallians to do the job for me, but then again, we are talking about them going against the French. :D I guess mainly I was wondering if anybody else in the British government would have had the guts to go after their former ally's fleet.
It's good of you to comment on my late night rants and ravings, Pfeifer! Now that I got some sleep and a lot of coffee poured into my head, I'll try to elaborate! :)

While I do find the idea of a German carrier strike at Scapa Flow to be both ironic and fun, it's probably not going to happen as such. Basically, because I don't think the carriers will be operational in time. The Kriegsmarine could probably force the sea trials somewhat and use one as bait of somekind. I suspect that the RN in this ATL will want to avenge themselves and actually sink some German ships for a change.

Considering the amount of damage the British morale had taken, I think they will be very, very bitter - they seen Germany and the USSR part Poland and every other ally they had go down whimpering instead of fighting (seen from London it would appeare that way, I'd say). Had the French fx. done their part of the work, so to say, the BEF would not lie dead on some otherwise irrelevant beach etc etc... Even the US just stood by and watched. The Brits will fell very much alone and betrayed, I think.

So basically now it's down to survival. The Japanese are stirring in the East and the Italians are doing the same in the Mediterranean. Neither nation as such has anything against Britain, and Britain only opposed said countries because of French and third party interests. Now, the Brits just don't care, and they most assuredly don't want any more enemies to fight. So they strike a deal with the Italian and Japanese; the Dutch, Belgian and French colonies are yours if you can take them, but you'll sign an non-aggression pact wiht us and we will happily trade with each other, oh, and no cozying up with the Germans.

The Itailans need British trade, access to resources and are probably not that big fans of Nazi-Germany as we often might think, so Mussolini might go with it. The Japanese probably will too, what have they got to lose?! The US might be royally pissed, but why should Britain care? They, as mentioned above, just stood by while the RAF, RN and BEF got handed its head and French rolled over and played dead.

Is this idea completetly implausible or just plainly insane?! I think a lot of things will change in the British mindset without Churchill (and his very pro-American stance) and the many defeats of this ATL...

Oh, and regards to the capabilities of the Italians. OTL had shown that the Italians were very good at messing up - mostly because of their incompetent officers and ditto politicians -, but before the shooting began Italy had a, if not sterling, then at least good reputation.

Hm, and without Churchill it is questionable if the Brits will do an Oran on the French, but the British are at times cynical bastards, so they might if pressed hard enough, yes!

Best regards!

- B.
 
Last edited:
Dunkerque Bloody Dunkerque - rewritten...

Dunkerque Bloody Dunkerque
There goes the siren that warns of the air raid
Then comes the sound of the guns sending flak
Out for the scramble we’ve got to get airborne
Got to get up for the coming attack.

Jump in the cockpit and start up the engines
Remove all the wheelblocks there’s no time to waste
Gathering speed as we head down the runway
Gotta get airborne before it’s too late.

Running, scrambling, flying
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die
Run, live to fly, fly to live. aces high.

- Iron Maiden, Aces High.

You can’t take back, that one mistake
That still lives on after life it takes
In that one day, that changed our lives
And bitter memories are left behind.

- The Offspring, The End of the Line.

After the rapid and impressive advances by the German Wehrmacht in the opening stages of Opeartion Hermann, the French government found itself forced to flee Paris and soon initiated armistice-negotiations. Meanwhile the French ground forces in central and southern France continued to resist along with the French 1. Army around Lille, that basically were caught alongside the British Expeditionary Force in the Dunkerque Pocket in Northwestern France - the last remnant of the Allied forces in Belgium had either given up or been pushed south into France by General Paul Hausser’s German 6th Army in mid-May.

There was one bright spot seen from London, though, and that was Royal Tank Regiment performance against General Walther Model’s Panzer forces near Arras. For some time it seemed like the Royal Tankers and infantry troops from the Durham Light would stop the Germans and reverse the tides of war (at least in that area) for the time being. The British Matilda’s seemed superior to anything the Germans had, which led to some later misconceptions regarding the value of the Matilda tank. Fast and deceisive action by the Luftwaffe’s cannon armed Stuka’s and some of the increasingly popular and called for Panzerknacker’s quickly put out that last glimmer of hope. Left on the Arras-battlefield was some 70 burning British tanks and numerous armoured personel carriers along with lorries and heapes of dead men. General Model later decorated several men from the ground-to-air liasion command, who had put themselves in the thick of battle to vector in close air support. The actions of said men, and Luftwaffe FlaK crews – calmly having turned their deadly 88mm AA guns at the onrushing British tanks -, did much to create an unbreakable bond between the Heer and Luftwaffe – as later seen in the Eastern War.

The catastrophical Battle of Arras and the campaign in France in general finally led to the Chamberlain governments downfall as Labour, the Conservatives, Eden’s War Party and Lord Halifax’s Oldguard Tories, and the Liberals, led by the Chamberlain-critical Clement Davies, found the present PM wanting to say the very least. Precious time was lost while Atlee, Bevin, Eden and Halifax-supporters in the House of Commons tried to find a new compromise candidate fro PM. For some time Eden hoped to be the man, as did Labours’ Clement Atlee, but after nearly a week of at times quite heathed debate, Lord Halifax – having the King’s backing – emerged as the new Prime Minister.

Once at the helm, Lord Halifax found the situation on the continent to be worse than expected – the French 1. Army, and the BEF itself, were being hammred and it was only a question of time before the German Heer along with the Luftwaffe and the few Kriegsmarine units involved drove the Allied Forces into the ever shrinking Dunkerque Pocket – the French 1.Army had finally been dislodged from Lille and was now being routed towards Dunkerque. There was no question that the Germans would sooner or later drive the BEF and its French allies into the sea, or more likely force them to surrender. Halifax therefore ordered the implementation of General John Gort’s Operation Dynamo, a plan to evacuate of troops and equipment from Dunkerque.

The situation became even worse when General Sir Edmund Ironside, the Chief of the Imperial General Staff – CIGS – was shot down on his way to the Continent. General Ironside had wanted to brief General Gort, the BEF’s commander-in-chief, in person and get a first hand impression of the situation. PM Halifax blamed the RAF for not having provided sufficient escorts to CIGS’ flight, but in reality the flight of Me-109’s of JG 20 - led by yet another famous German ace, Staffelkapitän Walter Oesau -, had brushed the escorts aside and downed every single one of the Hawker Hurricanes along with Ironside’s transporter. The death of General Ironside would lead to some animosity between Number 10 and RAF’s Fighter Command, and more unfortunately to Halifax accepting Bomber Command’s proposal of City Bombing...

In the Dunkerque pocket, General Gort was in truly dire straites. His men were running out of supplies, especially the vital anti-tank and anti-aircraft ammunition, but also other essentials such as food and fuel. The Germans seeming hell-bent on conquering Dunkerque just kept coming. From the south the XIXth Panzer Korps under General Heinz Guderian – the overall German Panzer commander in person – battled its way with the usual haste along the Channel coast from Abbeville towards Boulogne, Calais and ultimately Dunkirk. Moving south from Belgium, the German 6th Army continued its advanced as well, but was slowed down because of its lack of armour and motor transport – the infantry, however, moved forward with typical determination and was within artillery range of Dunkerque on the 28th of May.

The only thing keeping the Germans from overrunning the Dunkerque Pocket was ironically the French 1. Army, that had regrouped and now stubbornly stood its ground first behind the River Lys, and later behind the Yser as German forces outflanked their postitions. Several occasions of helicopter-scare, however, nearly sent the French troops retreating, but younger officers now held command in the 1. Army and proved to the world that the French could still fight and fight hard. The French resistance would be to no awail, though, as the British – even troops being repatriated from German POW-camps after the war - blamed the French, along with the Americans and Soviets, for their defeats.

Admiral Bertram Ramsay, who was in charge of Operation Dynamo, planned on using a combination of destroyers, transports and civilian vessels to evacuate BEF-troops via Dunkerques fine, but rather small habour. However, the harbour soon became unusable due to sunken and wrecked ships as Luftwaffe and the KLK pressed home their attacks again and again, while more and more Heer artillery were brought forth to take part in the mayhem. Admiral Ramsay therefore shifted focus to the nearby beaches and begun to evacuate troops from them instead. This had one serious side-effect – the beaches were not sheltered in any way, nor protected from air attack. Even though several AA guns were being placed and the ships themselves had been issued with more anti-aircraft guns – due to Churchill’s foresight -, the beaches soon turned into a regular slaughter house – the shallow water turning a rather omnious red colour – as low flying German fighters and the deadly Hs-129 straffed everything and anything that moved.

As part of the German attempt to prevent the escaped of the BEF and the Frecnh 1. Army, German planes begin to mine the Thames Estuary and Channel sea lanes as well as bombing British Channel ports. As the first British civilian bomb casualties are reported, the RAF attacks Rotterdam's refineries and tries to interdict the German Heer’s movements as well as Luftwaffe’s infrastructure, but once more find their light bombers no match for the superbly led and controlled Luftwaffe. The German attacks on British ports, however, prompt Halifax to give RAF’s Bomber Command the final go ahead on their City Bombing-scheme. Within a fourtnight waves of Short Sterlings and the new Manchester heavy bomber will begin to bomb German cities without any regard to civilian casualties.

Between 26th of May and 2nd of June, 1940, the Royal Navy tried its best to bring back as many British troops as possible. Their task was doomed from day one, however, as the Germans dominated the sky above Dunkerque completely and extensive mining operation forced the Britsih ships to use only three approaches - X, Y and Z - as well as running at reduced speed. Still, the gallant sailors carried on with suicidal recklessness and bravery.

A typical example of the near chaos in those dark days are the sinking of the British destroyers HMS Wakeful, Grafton and Comfort on the 29th of May. HMS Wakeful was hit and sunk by a torpedo from the German Schnell-boot, S30. HMS Grafton, which was nearby, tried to rescue the sailors from HMS Wakeful, but is itself hit by another torpedo from S30. As HMS Grafton begin to sink, yet another British destroyer, HMS Comfort, moves up to help, but HMS Grafton opens fire on her in the mistaken belief that she’s a German ship. The dying HMS Grafton actually sinks the Comfort! 25 other vessels are also sunk by Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine air crafts near Dunkirk on this day.

The losses around Dunkerque are not the only serious losses suffered by the Royal Navy in May. Patrolling near Iceland, the British battleship, HMS Warspite, is engaged by a German U-boot, U-46, and damaged extensively. HMS Warspite is later sunk by a flight of KLK FW-200 Condors flying from the newly established KLK base at Narvik as it desperately tries to reach a safe port. One of the Condors are downed by anti-aircraft fire from Warspite and one of her destroyer escorts, while the two others are damaged. Condor pilots will, however, continue to make low-flying attacks on warships for the rest of the war as it is the only way to ensure a kill.

In the early morning of the 3rd of June, 1940, the three senior British Generals – Gort, Brooke and Montgomery - along with their grimfaced troops finally surrenders as German infantry heads into Dunkerque itself from both north and south.

All in all some 600 ships of all sorts – even civilian vessels -, participated in Opr.Dynamo, and some 200 were sunk by air attacks, mines or Schnell-boot attacks. Adding to that, the RN lost 18 destroyers – nearly half the number committed-, 12 transports and even 2 cruisers, that had tried to give fire support to the retreating ground troops. In the end, Royal Navy and civilian crafts brought some 25,000 men home from Dunkerque – it had been a devasting disaster.

The RAF, be it Bomber Command or Fighter Command, played litlle role in Opr. Dynamo as the Luftwaffe were able to intercept them either to the south or out over the Channel. Thus the catastrophe at Dunkerque further alienated RAF as both troops and sailors felt let down, to state it rather politely, by Fighter Command. Admiral Ramsay would later write an infamous book , Betrayed, where he solely lay blame for the Dunkerque disaster on the shoulders of RAF.

The French General Weygand, having seen the British abadoning, or trying to abandon, the French, resigned his position as did the French Prime Minister, Paul Reynaud. On the 5th of June, Phillip Petain, the hero of the Great War, took power and immediately and without further ado accepted German peace terms. Under the terms of the armistice, northern France and the regions north of Vichy – Petains seat of government - came under German occupation. Luftwaffe’s Construction Brigades soon swarmed over the place, building new airfields and enlarging older ones as thay had done in Norway and Denmark.

During the Battle for France nearly 2 million French soldiers were taken prisoner. An estimated 420,000 Allied soldiers, mostly French, were killed defending France whereas only some 35,000 German soldiers had lost their lives during the invasion.

The British and French, both politicians and military officers alike, had seriously underestimated the strength of the German arms, and had payed the ultimate price for it. France was utterly defeated and Britain, once more, stood alone against a Continental superpower.
 
I've rewritten parts of Dunkerque Bloody Dunkerque in respons to your comments and criticism. Especially Tom's notion that destroyers would not be easy pickings and that more men would be evacuated. To deal with that, I've made the time window smaller, only a little week, and made the situation worse as the Germans are doing evertything they can to stop the evacuation.

Terror from above, the next part, should be posted either later today or tomorrow - there' s football match on the tv, so... :)

Best regards!

- Bluenote.
 
The Condors are using torpedoes? The vulnerability of battleships to bombs is overstated by many, esp. if we are talking about sinking and not a "mission kill". Condors were not armored and a low level bombing attack would suffer very heavy losses to AA (even with the mediocre fire control of RN AA early in the war). A low level the bombs do not pick up speed to penetrate armored decks. Hits with large bombs might start fires in superstructures but they are not going to pentrate vitals.

Interesting thing people should remember about Pearl Harbor:

Of the 8 battleships the 3 that were hit only by bombs all survived. Maryland's damage was very light and she was not mission killed in any sense. All the torpedoed battleships sank--if we count Nevada's beaching as a sinking. This is a little disingenuous because a bomb probably did cause Arizona's explosion but in the rest torpedo damage was the killer.

Tom
 
Tom_B said:
The Condors are using torpedoes? (...) Condors were not armored and a low level bombing attack would suffer very heavy losses to AA (even with the mediocre fire control of RN AA early in the war).
I don't think the Condors were rigged for torpedoes, Tom?! Anyway, I was thinking of glider bombs like the Henschels used in OTL. I'm not really sure when they entered service - the idea was apparently quite old -, but with more focus on naval bombing due to the Kriegsmarine having an air arm, I find it plausible to have them in action by the summer of 1940.

I seem to remember reading that the Condors did use low-flying attacks because of the added accuracy.

Again, naval matters are not my force, so I might be way off here...

Thanks for commenting - your respons was as usual both insightful and useful.

Regards and all.

- B.
 
I'm no expert at all in this matter, but, weren't the japanese carriers at Midway sunk by dive bombers?
 
Dive bombs and torpedoes

I agree with TomB on this matter. In OTL, most heavy warship kills were caused by torpedoes and not by bombs, especially not in the first years of the war. However, bombs were very useful to destroy parts of ships (e.g. guns, especially AA guns) and in reducing their speed, causing fires and general disorder on board. This then made it easier to achive a torpedo hit, as a fast moving warships is often able to outmaneuver torpedoes unless they are coming in huge numbers and/or from a very short distance, which in its turn would mean more vulnerability to AA fire.

In the case of aircraft carriers, bombs often managed to hit ready aircraft and fuel or ammo supplies, causing fires. IIRC, this also happened at Midway.

Concerning the "glide bombs", I think in OTL they were introduced in 1943. At least I know that they were used against the Italian battleship Roma in that year. However, I agree that they might be developed earlier in Bluenote's (BTW, excellent and enjoyable) TL.
 
Goering gone wild

Does anyone else see the name of the thread as below, or is it just some strange manifestation in my own personal universe ?

Grey Wolf

.

goering gone wild.jpg
 
Grey Wolf said:
Does anyone else see the name of the thread as below, or is it just some strange manifestation in my own personal universe ?

Grey Wolf

.

I have the same appearance. Is it due to the Umlaut "ö"?
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top