The Dead Skunk

Reader mode

focus9912

Hmm, looking at the embassy dispatch code, I feel like that is some political maneuvering going on in Paris.
So the USA did gain some land that OTL US never had, would like to see if this would affect the next presidential election in terms of the representation in Congress (and Electoral College) wise.
 

Lycaon pictus

Donor
Antony444 said:
And so ends this war between Britain and the United States. Excellent update.
Will we be graced with a map, good sir?
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'm working on the map.
focus9912 said:
Hmm, looking at the embassy dispatch code, I feel like that is some political maneuvering going on in Paris.
So the USA did gain some land that OTL US never had, would like to see if this would affect the next presidential election in terms of the representation in Congress (and Electoral College) wise.
Click to expand...
I'm curious to see if anyone can decode the message. (Some clues are here.)
And (spoiler) the new land will gain statehood in time for the next election—and since the whole rebellion was started by dissatisfaction with a political oligarchy, neither the Quids nor the DRs will necessarily benefit.
 

DAv

So Berrien won and yet lost at the same time, I don't think he'll take this gracefully neither. The fact he had his cabinet rebel won't help matters, I'll bet. Also, what's happened to Oregon? It wasn't mentioned in the treaty summation. It just revert back to the US?
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

Toronto is the birthright of all Canadians, revanche shall haunt the USA for generations as they come to fear the Vengeance of the maple Leaf!

Seriously though, it will be fascinating to see how losing that land and populace affect Canada's development. For one I daresay Quebec and French speakers in general in Canada will be getting a better deal much sooner with their loyalty recognized.
 
SuperZtar64

SuperZtar64

Banned
So the US extracts its kilogram of flesh from this idiotic war. I suppose at the very least we can say that all those American lives were not lost for absolutely nothing.

Oh, this also means that Niagara Falls is all-American! Woo!

I also wonder what London is going to be renamed to.
 
Last edited:

naraht

Really confused on the treaty on how the British are going to get any sort of warship into the Great Lakes upsteam of Erie. They may control the lakes there, but functionally, it is isolated.
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

With Toronto lost and New Brunswick having been occupied for a time it seems there will be a pish for greater unity between the Canadas and the Maritimes here. Also does this mean the end of the Family Compact with so much territory of theirs lost and their Quebec based counterparts on the ropes by Papineau?

The US might have expanded but aside from the DRP I don't think many will view the 'victory' as much worth the cost North or South.
 

naraht

Herr Frage said:
With Toronto lost and New Brunswick having been occupied for a time it seems there will be a pish for greater unity between the Canadas and the Maritimes here. Also does this mean the end of the Family Compact with so much territory of theirs lost and their Quebec based counterparts on the ropes by Papineau?

The US might have expanded but aside from the DRP I don't think many will view the 'victory' as much worth the cost North or South.
Click to expand...
While the area including Toronto may not be significant to the US, it represents the industrial heart of Canada today. I'm honestly curious what this "neutered" Canada looks like. I'm not sure that iOTL that the population of the area remaining had a majority of english speakers...
 
SuperZtar64

SuperZtar64

Banned
naraht said:
While the area including Toronto may not be significant to the US, it represents the industrial heart of Canada today. I'm honestly curious what this "neutered" Canada looks like. I'm not sure that iOTL that the population of the area remaining had a majority of english speakers...
Click to expand...
Canada as we know it straight up might not be a thing ITTL. I did the math, the area the US annexed contains nearly 11 million people OTL, which is 25% of OTL Canada's population.
 

naraht

SuperZtar64 said:
Canada as we know it straight up might not be a thing ITTL. I did the math, the area the US annexed contains nearly 11 million people OTL, which is 25% of OTL Canada's population.
Click to expand...
It's worse than that (the population today that is). According to wikipedia, iOTL 1840, Canada East (AKA Quebec) had 670,000 and Canada West (AKA Ontario) had 480,000 and over the next 27 years (to confederation), Canada West grew to where it was equal to Quebec. I'm going to take a guess that the US has taken land with 3/4 of Canada West's population. Now, yes some of those people could move east to where Canada West still borders Lake Ontario and the river east of that, but that still cuts the growth. My honest guess is that in 1867, the area which could be brought into Canada (Winnipeg & East) does *not* have an English Speaking majority. Will Britain give independence to such a nation, and what happens if they don't? (In short, cry havoc and release the Quebecois!)
 
Herr Frage

Herr Frage

naraht said:
It's worse than that (the population today that is). According to wikipedia, iOTL 1840, Canada East (AKA Quebec) had 670,000 and Canada West (AKA Ontario) had 480,000 and over the next 27 years (to confederation), Canada West grew to where it was equal to Quebec. I'm going to take a guess that the US has taken land with 3/4 of Canada West's population. Now, yes some of those people could move east to where Canada West still borders Lake Ontario and the river east of that, but that still cuts the growth. My honest guess is that in 1867, the area which could be brought into Canada (Winnipeg & East) does *not* have an English Speaking majority. Will Britain give independence to such a nation, and what happens if they don't? (In short, cry havoc and release the Quebecois!)
Click to expand...

I am not sure Quebec indepndence movement will amount too much as they now could become a dominant force. Plus the USA is likely more AntiCatholic than OTL with the Republic defying them.

My hope is Canada gets a major reform overhaul. Part of it will be better organization, in particular I am hoping for a Kingdom of Canada in place of Confederation with Charlotte as Queen of Canada, the Prince of Wales as the Viceroy; with eventually a proper Canadian sovereign monarch. Also that Brougham and others take to heart that while the WASPs in Toronto revolted and welcomed the Americans the Quebecers, and multiethnic Floridians remained loyal to the Crown; and in the case of Florida handed the union many defeats. So may be good to deepen that bound instead of taking it for granted.

To bolster Canada how about organizing a system to help "her majesties loyal subjects of color" emigrate North in addition to overturning the old Compact policy deterring westward settlement.

Looks like Wellington is coming home.
 
Map of the State To Be Named Later
  • Index

    • Lycaon pictus

    Donor
    A population of 400,000 (give or take 10,000 or so) would make this territory more populous in 1840 than New Jersey or Missouri, but less so than Maryland.
    As promised, here's the map:
    TreatyOfWindsor.png

    As mentioned in the footnotes here, OTL's London, Ontario is called Kent-Strathearn. They'll be keeping the name out of lingering affection for the old Prince-Viceroy, who tried to do right by them up to a point.
    Speaking of names, I've come up with a bunch of possible names for this state and I don't love any of them, and I don't think they'd go with "Upper Canada" or "South Canada" after they just left Canada. So I've decided to poll my readers.
     
    Last edited:
  • Index

    • Cassius

    Is Astoria/Oregon in British control? I don't think the Treaty mentions it.

    Lycaon pictus said:
    Speaking of names, I've come up with a bunch of possible names for this state and I don't love any of them, and I don't think they'd go with "Upper Canada" or "South Canada" after they just left Canada. So I've decided to poll my readers.
    Click to expand...
    Spitballing: Ontario? Huron? Erie? York? Toronto? Simcoe? Niagara? St. Lawrence? West York?
    I actually like Niagara.
     

    Admiral Matt

    Cassius said:
    Is Astoria/Oregon in British control? I don't think the Treaty mentions it.


    Spitballing: Ontario? Huron? Erie? York? Toronto? Simcoe? Niagara? St. Lawrence? West York?
    I actually like Niagara.
    Click to expand...

    The lakes are the obvious options, but I also thought of Niagara. In Mohawk the equivalent word for "neck of land" is ohniá:kara' (so roughly oh-nya-ga-ra, if I remember the orthography right). This place literally is a "neck of land."

    Of course the name Toronto is also Mohawk and also literally appropriate: "where trees stand in water" meant the forested area surounded by the Great Lakes.

    That said, I'm fairly certain that in this context no one cared much what the reality of the Iroquoian names was, and I'm a little concerned for the future of the Ontario Iroquois, frankly. So while they're objectively great names, they wouldn't become the name by merit, but more likely by fluke. Then a century later I suppose the etymology could be dusted off and enjoyed.
     

    naraht

    Also, some of the OTL Canadian Islands are pretty remote from the rest of the "state", would they stay with the new state or be given to Michigan?
     
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Top
    Top