Good catch. I got Ontario and Erie mixed up.:rolleyes:



I wondered about this myself. I think you're right. If the decision were being made from London, they would probably rather have as many U.S. ships of the line as possible bottled up in a lake. But if Edward is making the call… in case of war, the Royal Navy could send a dozen ships the size of the Chippewa in two months, but the Chippewa could be shelling Canadian cities in two days.


???? But even if the Rideau canal is built and/or the locks on the st laurence, they are still way to small for a ship that size, no?
 
???? But even if the Rideau canal is built and/or the locks on the st laurence, they are still way to small for a ship that size, no?

You mean the Lachine Canal, but… you're right. I'm going to have to do some rewriting. EDIT: Done. (Putting the Chippewa in Lake Ontario would have been a silly thing to do anyway.)
 
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So I suppose a Franco-Amero-Italian anti-British bloc is pretty much a done deal? That could be a rather major problem for the Brits.

On another note, I wonder whether the fate of the Magreb will turn out any differently then OTL? I mean, France will probably still try and secure coastal Algeria to prevent the Barbary raids, but with the tensions with Britain can they really afford the expense?
 
So, what one great, iconic work does Théodore Géricault get to paint, then, if he is bereft of the Meduse?

The Slaughter of the Horses (1818). A depiction of a moment in 1816 when many of the horses in the Versailles stables were killed to provide meat for the hungry. Terrified horses straining against the ropes, weeping but determined stablehands doing the work, snow-white mare rearing against a dark, discolored sky as a stablehand slams the mallet into its skull and blood flies out… that ought to do it.

(Although if he lives long enough to finish his giant paintings of the Atlantic slave trade and the dungeons of the Spanish Inquisition, he might outdo himself.)
 
The Return of the Queen (1)
Man, I have fallen way behind schedule. Sorry.



March 13, 1820
9:45 a.m.
Hastings

The historic village of Hastings had grown in the past few years, but it was still a fairly small town. Its economy was based on fishing, smuggling and catering to wealthy vacationers. This being March, that last was not a factor.

It also had no harbor. Luckily, this wasn’t one of the Channel’s mad March days — at most, it was a grumpy March day. The steamship carrying the Queen of England docked at the little pier with no trouble, and the cold, raw wind did nothing to dampen the enthusiasm of the people already gathering on the beach… or the enthusiasm of Henry Brougham, striding up the pier.

Brougham looked behind him. Word had gotten out quickly that the queen would be here this morning. He had made sure of that. In another minute, so many people would be on the beach that the gathering would become illegal. Brougham also thought he recognized William Cobbett in the crowd. He’d heard that old troublemaker was back in the kingdom. Excellent.

Queen Caroline stepped onto the pier, clad in a heavy red pelisse and matching hat. She had only a few retainers with her, and (Brougham breathed a sigh of relief to see this) Bartolomeo Pergami wasn’t one of them. Perhaps she was developing a little common sense.

Someone supplied a crate for her to stand on at the head of the pier. The crowd assembled around her. Brougham stood at her right hand.

“People of Great Britain!” she said. “It gives me great joy to return to English soil, and to be received so graciously on such short notice.

“Once before, in a moment of womanly weakness, I permitted myself to be driven from these fair shores by the unrelenting calumnies of my enemies. Foolishly, I believed that once I was away they would cease their attacks upon my reputation. They have done nothing of the sort — indeed, they have drawn courage from my absence and redoubled their vituperations.

“But that is not what brings me here,” she lied. “No, it is what they have done against you that calls me home to oppose them. They have taken no thought for the public weal, and what is worse they have tried to silence” — Brougham gently tugged at the sleeve of her pelisse, and gestured to where the local magistrate was approaching, backed by a couple of parish watchmen.

“Oh, dear,” she said. “Well, let’s hear what this gentleman has to say.”

The crowd murmured angrily as the magistrate pushed his way to the front. He turned and addressed them.

“Our Sovereign Lord the King” — he had to raise his voice a little over the hisses and catcalls that suddenly arose — “chargeth and commandeth all persons here assembled immediately to disperse themselves and peaceably to depart to their habitations or to their lawful business upon pain of death! God save the King!”

“GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!” the crowd replied, except for a few who shouted “God help the king!”

“Does he mean it?” whispered Caroline.

Brougham nodded. “Officially, this gathering has one hour to complete its dispersal. The nearest regiment is the Royal Sussex — it will take about that long to summon them here from where they’re currently stationed.”

“More time than I need,” she said. Then, louder: “As you’ve heard, we must be on our way. Before we go, I make you this promise — that all classes will ever find in me a sincere friend to their liberties, and a zealous advocate of their rights.”
 
You know, I'm always surprised when something reminds me of England's complete lack of civilian police. The fact that a regiment has to be dragged from garrison to suppress a minor meeting seem kind of ludicrous at first glance.

Anyway, can't wait to see some chaos on the Isles!
 
You know, I'm always surprised when something reminds me of England's complete lack of civilian police. The fact that a regiment has to be dragged from garrison to suppress a minor meeting seem kind of ludicrous at first glance.

Anyway, can't wait to see some chaos on the Isles!

King Henry

:confused: Did anyone have a civilian police then? At least a nation wide one.

Steve
 
King Henry

:confused: Did anyone have a civilian police then? At least a nation wide one.

Steve

Even before the Revolution, France had the maréchaussée — mounted police, for use against bandits in the countryside. They were a military institution, but they served the function of civilian police, and by all accounts served it well. At this point ITTL, the Imperial Gendarmerie fulfills the function, under Fouché's control.

The opposition to the idea in the U.K. was actually kind of libertarian — or maybe "propertarian" would be a better word. People who had no problem with political or religious repression still drew the line at creating a government-run force whose agents could come into your house against your will.
 

Japhy

Banned
Just caught up with all of this. I just have to say that I like whats come so far, and I can't wait for more. Not much else to say now besides that.
 
Even before the Revolution, France had the maréchaussée — mounted police, for use against bandits in the countryside. They were a military institution, but they served the function of civilian police, and by all accounts served it well. At this point ITTL, the Imperial Gendarmerie fulfills the function, under Fouché's control.

The opposition to the idea in the U.K. was actually kind of libertarian — or maybe "propertarian" would be a better word. People who had no problem with political or religious repression still drew the line at creating a government-run force whose agents could come into your house against your will.

Lycaon

Interesting. Probably very much the key point, there is still a significant element of that stance today.

Thanks

Steve
 
The Return of the Queen (2)
Just caught up with all of this. I just have to say that I like whats come so far, and I can't wait for more. Not much else to say now besides that.

Thank you.

Well, once again I'm afraid a major battle is going to get short shrift. Suffice it to say that (as IOTL) the Sultan strips Ali Pasha of Tependele of his rank and sends troops to bring his head (with or without the rest of him) back to the Topkapi Palace. Except that ITTL something goes wrong…



The battle of Metsovo on April 8, 1820, is rightly considered one of the turning points in the history of the Ottoman Empire. Several historians, such as Yavuz Bardakçi and Cemil Uzun, have expressed the belief that if Mahmud II’s undermanned[1] forces had triumphed over Tepedelenli Ali’s (or even held them to a draw) the revolts later in the year might have been forestalled. According to Bardakçi, “Before Metsovo, the most that the Greeks and other Christians might have hoped for was autonomy of the sort that had already been granted to Serbia — and this would have been balanced against the fear of wholesale destruction and enslavement. But when the Sultan’s soldiers were brought low by a pasha’s retainers and hirelings, and when Caulaincourt and Foscolo sent men bearing arms and ammunition, all things seemed possible.” (Greek and Romanian historians, needless to say, tend to disagree.)

Others have expressed the opinion that the very circumstances of the battle strongly imply that the Empire was already unsalvageable. G.G. Elmar devoted an entire chapter of Les Élites Dirigeantes to the later years of the Sublime Porte, culminating in this judgment: “When a state finds it more practicable to recognize brigands as military leaders and provincial powers than to train loyal men to serve as competent generals and governors, it is too late to speak of ‘reform.’”

The one certainty is that in the aftermath of the battle, as both the Sublime Porte and Tepedelenli Ali spent the holy month of Rajab regrouping, rebellions broke out in Moldavia and Wallachia. In Greece, klephts and armatoloi[2] rallied to Ali’s banner — whatever they may have thought of Albanians in general, they saw the pasha as at the very least an ally of convenience. Prince Milos of Serbia chose this moment to demand greater autonomy.

In St. Petersburg and Vienna, the advisors of Francis II and Alexander I debated what was to be done. Some suggested that Austria and Russia should now invade, and put paid to their ancient foe once and for all. Metternich opposed this idea, pointing out that an Ottoman collapse might lead to chaos in the Balkans and the Near East. Castlereagh warned the Russian ambassador that Britain would intervene to prevent Istanbul from falling into Russian hands. In the end, all three Powers chose to wait and do nothing — for the moment.

Kemal Demirci, The Cardboard Lion: The Last Years of the Ottoman Empire

[1] A lot of Janissaries existed only on paper. Their pay was going into somebody’s pocket.
[2] Bandits and soldiers (who were probably also bandits).
 
Ooh... not World War I a century early, I hope? ;)

Stolengood

Probably not. For one thing most/all of Europe is pretty sick of war and doesn't want further chaos and instability. For another, other than Britain and Russia and to a lesser degree Austria and France there are restricted capacities to apply force in the region. As well as, apart from for the 1st two named, relatively little interest in the area.

On the other hand its clear the Ottomans are going down. What replaces them is going to be an important question. Possibly also a very fraught one.;)

Steve
 
If Britain steps in at this early date to prop up the Ottomans and keep the Russians' hands off the Straits, then in a decades' time (or ealier in TTL)when Muhammad Ali Pasha leads Egypt in revolt against Ottoman rule, to whom will he turn for support? The only answer is France, and the struggle continues.

The way things are going, you could well rename this timeline "The Second Hundred Years' War." The fields of battle might expand far from Europe, but the antagonists remain the same... and I can't wait!
 
If Britain steps in at this early date to prop up the Ottomans and keep the Russians' hands off the Straits, then in a decades' time (or ealier in TTL)when Muhammad Ali Pasha leads Egypt in revolt against Ottoman rule, to whom will he turn for support? The only answer is France, and the struggle continues.

The way things are going, you could well rename this timeline "The Second Hundred Years' War." The fields of battle might expand far from Europe, but the antagonists remain the same... and I can't wait!

bm79

Actually the period ~1689-1815 is sometimes given that name.;)

You are presuming that Ali's revolt isn't butterflied. As it was OTL he did get some support from France during his war against the Ottomans but they withdrew this when it was clear Britain would go to war to protect the Ottomans.

Steve
 
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