Thanks again, Geordie – I get what you mean with the Reichstag photo, it's one of the things I'll rework in the editing process.
I really appreciate you doing this, it's a massive help and deeply gratifying from an authorial perspective!
The Darling Buds Express
- Thread starter Ed Costello
- Start date
Thanks again, Geordie – I get what you mean with the Reichstag photo, it's one of the things I'll rework in the editing process.
I really appreciate you doing this, it's a massive help and deeply gratifying from an authorial perspective!
Glad to be able to help. I've read the next two, but shall feed back tomorrow.
Right then, I've read through the two Saturday posts - the pub and the argument - and had another quick skim now, just to check again.
More quite sensitive world building in these two, as well as some really good character work. Your Laura is really good. Believable, interesting, sympathetic, but not a Mary Sue. Her thoughts, feelings, reactions, they all make a character, rather than simply a description or an archetype. I found the beginning bits of the pub scene slightly tricky to follow when reading last night, but a) I was tired; and b) Laura wasn't listening, so she herself was only catching snippets. Again, it was believable. I wonder who Timmeh of Arabia is. Farron seems too obvious, even accounting for him being on the left of the Lib Dems. Collins? Congdon? I'm sure I'll find out in good time.
Social attitudes are clearly lagging well behind our own times, even if homosexuality was legalised at about the same time. The decent of a good friend into troubling places, in political, social and health terms, is also well done, however worrying it is for Laura and Jo. The row was also very well written. While I suspect most readers, like me, have their sympathies more on Laura's side, there is enough in there for Henry to clearly believe that Laura isn't treating his own career and wants with respect, which makes for both parties feeling wronged. This works even better if, as suggested, this is not a new debate.
There were a couple of interesting things of note in the pub scene: The Lord Stanley, Cartographer's Arms and Molyneux are all interesting names for hostelries. Lots of discussion about trombones, bespectacled Liverpudlians, the name Feery, and also a "fuck off, that's mental", which made me laugh out loud.
I look forward to seeing how Laura and Henry deal with the fall out.
More quite sensitive world building in these two, as well as some really good character work. Your Laura is really good. Believable, interesting, sympathetic, but not a Mary Sue. Her thoughts, feelings, reactions, they all make a character, rather than simply a description or an archetype. I found the beginning bits of the pub scene slightly tricky to follow when reading last night, but a) I was tired; and b) Laura wasn't listening, so she herself was only catching snippets. Again, it was believable. I wonder who Timmeh of Arabia is. Farron seems too obvious, even accounting for him being on the left of the Lib Dems. Collins? Congdon? I'm sure I'll find out in good time.
Social attitudes are clearly lagging well behind our own times, even if homosexuality was legalised at about the same time. The decent of a good friend into troubling places, in political, social and health terms, is also well done, however worrying it is for Laura and Jo. The row was also very well written. While I suspect most readers, like me, have their sympathies more on Laura's side, there is enough in there for Henry to clearly believe that Laura isn't treating his own career and wants with respect, which makes for both parties feeling wronged. This works even better if, as suggested, this is not a new debate.
There were a couple of interesting things of note in the pub scene: The Lord Stanley, Cartographer's Arms and Molyneux are all interesting names for hostelries. Lots of discussion about trombones, bespectacled Liverpudlians, the name Feery, and also a "fuck off, that's mental", which made me laugh out loud.
I look forward to seeing how Laura and Henry deal with the fall out.
I've just read the one where Laura and Henry visit Gordon and Molly.
It took an astonishingly long time to realise that the retarded social progress* of this TL can even be seen in many of the names of the younger people. But it's obvious once I've seen it.
Once again, your characters are superb. Instead of using them merely as props with which to support your AH scenario; they're fleshed out people, living in an AH world. It's really good writing.
*Retarded as in slowed down, rather than a slur.
It took an astonishingly long time to realise that the retarded social progress* of this TL can even be seen in many of the names of the younger people. But it's obvious once I've seen it.
Once again, your characters are superb. Instead of using them merely as props with which to support your AH scenario; they're fleshed out people, living in an AH world. It's really good writing.
*Retarded as in slowed down, rather than a slur.
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That's all of Monday gone.
Lots of little bits and bobs here. All, again, very well written. I like the fact that you're telling a story about people, and the AH is the setting, almost the set dressing. Too often, it's the other way around. I mean, depending on the skill of the author, and the way it's handled, the history can be the driving factor, but this is a lovely change of pace, and a reminder that we can do it differently. That I could do things differently. All the scenes, once again, are beautiful, believable, and moving. The "patterned silence seventy-eight times a minute", bookmarking the last chapter is absolutely superb. Bravo.
Anyway, regarding the AH, we've got Mosley's Labour, Alec Douglas-Home taking the helm in the mid to late fifties, all sorts of little nods. Then, of course, Keith Moon in the Beatles, with Ringo on vocals. Now that's a change and a half. Thinking of the difference between the shellac and vinyl recordings, which I know you've mentioned before, got me wondering. Is the Musicians' Union in a stronger position here than in OTL? I seem to recall a documentary about Humphrey Lyttleton claiming that it was very difficult to get recordings of US jazz artists in the UK at one point, with bootleg copies coming in through Liverpool and London being the best, if rather unreliable, bet. That could lead to even more changes in musical history than I'd considered. It might be one of the things helping Flanders and Swann stay at the top of the pile. On the other hand, unless the Beatles stayed over in the States, the influence of the US, however diluted, will come through given time.
Nice to see a brass band on the bandstand, and a shout out for Prescot Cables FC, even if we want them to lose this one!
Oh, and SEAGULL!
Lots of little bits and bobs here. All, again, very well written. I like the fact that you're telling a story about people, and the AH is the setting, almost the set dressing. Too often, it's the other way around. I mean, depending on the skill of the author, and the way it's handled, the history can be the driving factor, but this is a lovely change of pace, and a reminder that we can do it differently. That I could do things differently. All the scenes, once again, are beautiful, believable, and moving. The "patterned silence seventy-eight times a minute", bookmarking the last chapter is absolutely superb. Bravo.
Anyway, regarding the AH, we've got Mosley's Labour, Alec Douglas-Home taking the helm in the mid to late fifties, all sorts of little nods. Then, of course, Keith Moon in the Beatles, with Ringo on vocals. Now that's a change and a half. Thinking of the difference between the shellac and vinyl recordings, which I know you've mentioned before, got me wondering. Is the Musicians' Union in a stronger position here than in OTL? I seem to recall a documentary about Humphrey Lyttleton claiming that it was very difficult to get recordings of US jazz artists in the UK at one point, with bootleg copies coming in through Liverpool and London being the best, if rather unreliable, bet. That could lead to even more changes in musical history than I'd considered. It might be one of the things helping Flanders and Swann stay at the top of the pile. On the other hand, unless the Beatles stayed over in the States, the influence of the US, however diluted, will come through given time.
Nice to see a brass band on the bandstand, and a shout out for Prescot Cables FC, even if we want them to lose this one!
Oh, and SEAGULL!
And I'm finished.
This is a genuinely heartwarming story. And from a PoD I could never have imagined, too.
Thank you for a cracking read. Lovely world building, great characters. I'd be surprised if there's been a better, more rounded character on this site in 2016 than your Laura. I don't know whether you had to spend a lot of time thinking about her, or whether she just appeared, fully formed, like Faramir from the woods of Ithilien, but she was fantastic, and so well written.
Thank you for a very enjoyable read.
This is a genuinely heartwarming story. And from a PoD I could never have imagined, too.
Thank you for a cracking read. Lovely world building, great characters. I'd be surprised if there's been a better, more rounded character on this site in 2016 than your Laura. I don't know whether you had to spend a lot of time thinking about her, or whether she just appeared, fully formed, like Faramir from the woods of Ithilien, but she was fantastic, and so well written.
Thank you for a very enjoyable read.
Thank you very much for this – and thanks also to @Geordie and @BrotherSideways for their respective Turtledove nominations for this TL.
It's worth pointing out – as much for general consumption as for my own ego – that Turtledove nominations have changed this year; every nomination requires a second, and they have to be done in a specific format, so please make sure everything conforms to the guidelines!
It's worth pointing out – as much for general consumption as for my own ego – that Turtledove nominations have changed this year; every nomination requires a second, and they have to be done in a specific format, so please make sure everything conforms to the guidelines!
And now, to finally respond to Geordie's very thoughtful comments:
You've hit pretty much everything on the head here, in particular the sexual politics and the relationship dynamic going on in the row – which, from my perspective, is brilliant, because it means I'm putting them across!
One tiny thing – the 'Timmeh' in question, while an OTL figure, isn't an OTL politician; that goes for all PMs from 1980 onwards (although Timmeh's nickname is a nod to Farron's). His OTL relative might be a bit obscure to anyone who isn't a fan of lower-ranks Britpop bands who are obsessive Star Trek fans, though.
Oh, Geordie. I was hoping you of all people would clock the theme naming I was going for…
Thank you, that's really very kind of you. I remember something Thande said a while back about creating AH for 'the mainstream' (as opposed to 'mainstream AH'): to paraphrase, "the AH has to be something they can ignore if they want to." I don't deny that this tale is soft and somewhat fanciful AH, but I don't think that makes it bad AH.
Mosley is actually the New Labour Party, because I can't believe nobody's done that yet (well, possibly Mumby in some PMs list).
I'm not sure of the historical strength of the Musicians' Union, but the music industry in general (at least in Britain) is still very unionised (as it was IOTL until the late 60s); that means you have engineers and producers having very specifically delineated jobs and new technologies taking a long time to filter down (to note, the Beatles recorded all of their albums bar Abbey Road on four-track mixing desks despite eight-track desks being the norm in America from very early on in their career). Obviously, the different geopolitical situation has had an impact on the development of music as well.
Also a lot of that final section was referencing the origins of power pop and the band Big Star.
And thank you for the thoughtful and in-depth comments; they really do mean a lot.
You've hit pretty much everything on the head here, in particular the sexual politics and the relationship dynamic going on in the row – which, from my perspective, is brilliant, because it means I'm putting them across!
One tiny thing – the 'Timmeh' in question, while an OTL figure, isn't an OTL politician; that goes for all PMs from 1980 onwards (although Timmeh's nickname is a nod to Farron's). His OTL relative might be a bit obscure to anyone who isn't a fan of lower-ranks Britpop bands who are obsessive Star Trek fans, though.
Oh, Geordie. I was hoping you of all people would clock the theme naming I was going for…
Thank you, that's really very kind of you. I remember something Thande said a while back about creating AH for 'the mainstream' (as opposed to 'mainstream AH'): to paraphrase, "the AH has to be something they can ignore if they want to." I don't deny that this tale is soft and somewhat fanciful AH, but I don't think that makes it bad AH.
Mosley is actually the New Labour Party, because I can't believe nobody's done that yet (well, possibly Mumby in some PMs list).
I'm not sure of the historical strength of the Musicians' Union, but the music industry in general (at least in Britain) is still very unionised (as it was IOTL until the late 60s); that means you have engineers and producers having very specifically delineated jobs and new technologies taking a long time to filter down (to note, the Beatles recorded all of their albums bar Abbey Road on four-track mixing desks despite eight-track desks being the norm in America from very early on in their career). Obviously, the different geopolitical situation has had an impact on the development of music as well.
Also a lot of that final section was referencing the origins of power pop and the band Big Star.
And thank you for the thoughtful and in-depth comments; they really do mean a lot.
For those of you who might not yet be aware, The Darling Buds Express is now available for Kindle on Sea Lion Press.
Huge thanks to those of you who read, commented, liked and otherwise enjoyed this timeline – it was a big learning experience for me, and one I'm quite proud of. Equally big props to @Meadow for his publishing wizardry, and to @Lord Roem for that absolutely stonking cover.
There are also eight other books newly available on SLP, all of which I strongly advise you to check out (as I proofed them all)!