the Danish-Russian War

Valdemar II

Banned
Charles Peter Ulrich, who acceded to the Russian throne as Peter III in 1762, was determined to conquer Schleswig and Holstein from Denmark-Norway. When he became tsar in 1762, he immediately signed a generous peace with Prussia and withdrew Russia from the Seven Years' War in order to concentrate fully on an attack upon Denmark. . At the same time, the Danish army had hastily moved across the border into Mecklenburg, to avoid an invasion of Holstein, and assumed battle positions. The two armies stood less than 30 kilometres apart when news from Saint Petersburg suddenly reached the Russian army that the mad tsar had been overthrown by his wife, who had now acceded to the throne as Catherine II of Russia. One of her first actions was to call off the war against Denmark and restore normal relations.

What if Catherine didn't succed in overthrow Peter, how would the war turn out?
 
What if Catherine didn't succed in overthrow Peter, how would the war turn out?

Valdemar II

Interesting. I knew about the peace with Prussia but every time I've read about it before it was described as Peter being an ardent fan of Fredrick the Great and mad. Any particular reason why he was so determined to get S-H off Denmark?

Don't really know in terms of the balance of the war. Russia has vastly greater land forces but I shouldn't be surprised if Denmark has a more powerful fleet. At the least it should make supplying a Russian army that far west difficult. [Unless Fredrick is so greatful for the peace he is willing to give free passage through Prussia. That would have its own problems however].

Also not sure how other powers would react? Could see a number of nations not wanted Russia having control of access from the Baltic, as might well become the case if they win. On the other hand most of Europe has just fought a long and bloody war and also Russia is not the overwhelming titan it would be seen to be after Napoleon's time.

Steve
 

Redbeard

Banned
In OTL 1762 a Danish Army marched to meet the Russian army and was a few miles from the Russian army when message was recieved from Russia that (the Denmark hating) Peter had been overthrown.

The Danish army then was relatively big (71.000) and both well equipped and trained - the last by the French general St. Germain (also in command). According to an English observer especially the cavalry was impressive. The Royal Danish Navy was 36 major warships, most of them Ships-of-the-Line. I haven´t got accurate data on the Russian navy, but know that they operated 17 SotL in the Baltic in the Prussian Seven Years War.

We of course can't know what would have happened if it had come to war and battle, but AFAIK the Russians by 1762 did not have a field force larger than that and to my best judgement anything could have happened.

Peter III was of the Gottorp line, old rivals to the Oldenborgs on the Danish throne, and also was a great admirer of Friederich the Great of Prussia. A Russian victory probably would mean the King of Denmark giving up his duchies in the German Reich and would have Denmark go to 1864 mode a hundred years ahead of schedule.

A Danish victory might either mean the quick disposal of Peter III, and then the rest is pretty much as OTL, apart from some greater Danish military self-confidence, but if Peter stays in power I think it could mean a prolonged/restarted PSYW and with Prussia being dissolved. What that would mean is just about too big to see...

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Valdemar II

Interesting. I knew about the peace with Prussia but every time I've read about it before it was described as Peter being an ardent fan of Fredrick the Great and mad. Any particular reason why he was so determined to get S-H off Denmark?

He was raised to hate the primary line of the Oldenburgs, beside that he were mad and a idiot*

Don't really know in terms of the balance of the war. Russia has vastly greater land forces but I shouldn't be surprised if Denmark has a more powerful fleet. At the least it should make supplying a Russian army that far west difficult. [Unless Fredrick is so greatful for the peace he is willing to give free passage through Prussia. That would have its own problems however].

They would get free passage through Prussia

Also not sure how other powers would react? Could see a number of nations not wanted Russia having control of access from the Baltic, as might well become the case if they win. On the other hand most of Europe has just fought a long and bloody war and also Russia is not the overwhelming titan it would be seen to be after Napoleon's time.

Steve

I think Redbeard answered that better than me.

*I don't know what else to call a person who think SH is more important than the Russian Empire.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The Danish army then was relatively big (71.000) and both well equipped and trained - the last by the French general St. Germain (also in command). According to an English observer especially the cavalry was impressive. The Royal Danish Navy was 36 major warships, most of them Ships-of-the-Line. I haven´t got accurate data on the Russian navy, but know that they operated 17 SotL in the Baltic in the Prussian Seven Years War.

But it's likely that Sweden is going to join Russia in a attempt to get Norway, and Sweden had a fleet which was almost as big as the Danish one.

We of course can't know what would have happened if it had come to war and battle, but AFAIK the Russians by 1762 did not have a field force larger than that and to my best judgement anything could have happened.

In Mecklenburg there was 37000 Danish troops and 46000 Russian troops.

The Danish army was proffesionel but untried, while the Russian was a veteran force, but the Russian army would likely have low morale thanks to the fact, they had just de facto lost a war thanks to Peters insanity, now they would have to met a well rested army.

Peter III was of the Gottorp line, old rivals to the Oldenborgs on the Danish throne, and also was a great admirer of Friederich the Great of Prussia. A Russian victory probably would mean the King of Denmark giving up his duchies in the German Reich and would have Denmark go to 1864 mode a hundred years ahead of schedule.

I agree internal reforms is likely.

A Danish victory might either mean the quick disposal of Peter III, and then the rest is pretty much as OTL, apart from some greater Danish military self-confidence, but if Peter stays in power I think it could mean a prolonged/restarted PSYW and with Prussia being dissolved. What that would mean is just about too big to see...


Regards

Steffen Redbeard[/QUOTE]

interesting.
 

Redbeard

Banned
But it's likely that Sweden is going to join Russia in a attempt to get Norway, and Sweden had a fleet which was almost as big as the Danish one.

The Swedes in OTL was on the side of Prussias enemies (Austria, France, Spain) - i.e. the same as Denmark and opposed to that of Peter IIIs Russia. Besides I think joining Prussia/Russia's cause in 1762 would be outright stupid. Prussia was worn out, surviving only on miracles, Russia not in a state to force her will much beyond her borders and GB also loosing breath, certainly on the European continent. This could mean Sweden loosing Skåne, certainly if combined with GB dropping continental involvement.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
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