The Dagda and the three Saints

  • Thread starter Deleted member 5719
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Deleted member 5719

God'sDentist said:
I trust that you're correct, GK, and that would certainly suit my own (skeptical) frame of reference. My point, if I had one at all, was more along the lines that I'm willing to follow BNS' timeline even into ASB territory, if need be. And after all, if he chooses to write from the perspective of a seer, the travel to other worlds will likely be presented as quite real.
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Thanks for that, it means a lot to me that people enjoy reading this. As to dealérga, Geekis is dead right, it is a halucinatory practice, whose adepts are trained to guide and then interpret their visions within the framework of Ansalérga. It is aided by a potion whose composition I'm researching at the moment, as various Welsh and Irish texts lead me to think that both cultures might have used such practices OTL.

Though, if I had time, I would now split the story into one ASB one, and this realistic timeline.
 

Deleted member 5719

God'sDentist said:
Just wanted to say how much I've been enjoying this thread. Great blend of research, clever speculation, and (most important, to my mind) clever and skillful writing. Heartily subscribed.
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I'd just like to say how much of that research has been dependent on people like Valdemar, ES, Lysandros, Geekis and Hendryk asking me questions and making comments. So thanks lads.
 

Domoviye

boynamedsue said:
Thanks for that, it means a lot to me that people enjoy reading this. As to dealérga, Geekis is dead right, it is a halucinatory practice, whose adepts are trained to guide and then interpret their visions within the framework of Ansalérga. It is aided by a potion whose composition I'm researching at the moment, as various Welsh and Irish texts lead me to think that both cultures might have used such practices OTL.

Though, if I had time, I would now split the story into one ASB one, and this realistic timeline.
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I'm glad you're keeping it real. Making it mystical mumbo-jumbo would definitely detract from the timeline.
 

Deleted member 5719

Domoviye said:
I'm glad you're keeping it real. Making it mystical mumbo-jumbo would definitely detract from the timeline.
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I think your right Dom, ASB is really hard to do well.

Valdemar said:
Yes this is a lot more like the development of Hinduism, where Indu-European religeous structures was adopted by the Dravids. I think we will see the Gothes join the Druids religeous structures, the question are what religeous lingua franca they end up with, I think Garman* will end up dominating thanks to it stronger position compared to Irish, through local rites will likely stay in local language.

**Linguistic I think Garman will be closest related to Low Frankish (Dutch and Flemish) rather than Friesian like English thanks to the Frank settlers and the continued contact with the Franks (as in OTL).
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As you know, language is something I think about a lot in this TL.

The language of Ansalérga is Tengua Sacriva, an extremely conservative version of Primitive Irish, it's a written language (using its own alphabet), but is only spoken by druids in ceremonial situations or formal contexts. In 600 AD it is still just about comprehensible to the Irish-speakers of Ireland, where it anchors informal speech so it is much more conservative than OTL. In Eriu and the Irish colonies on mainland Britain, Irish has evolved closer to where it was OTL, as the Tengua Sacriva influence was weaker prior to 550.

The Gewissings are a mixed Brito-Garman group, who have largely adopted Garman culture. However, their Garman has been very structurally influenced by British and contains many more loan words than any attested OTL Anglo-Saxon dialect. Its noun case sytem has undergone a massive simplification, paralelling that which is happening in British (similarly to OTL). This will be the first none Celtic dialect the druids use, with texts by 585 at the latest (in the Irish alphabet of course).

Garman proper looks more like OTL Anglo-Saxon, though dialectically divided slightly differently, and with a very strong Celtic substrata in the dialect of the kingdom of Saexen, due to the influence of the Belgae. There are more Franks, but also more Frisians, so the balance is more or less the same, after dialect levelling, the whole thing sounds very much like OTL but with a few more Celtic words and a few less Latin

The outlier is the Frankish of the Iceningas (Norfolk and Cambridgeshire areas), which has not undergone the process of dialect levelling, as it was a purely Frankish kingdom, was settled earlier, and is isolated on its Western border by swamplands inhabited by largely monolingual Britons (albeit ones with little political organisation).

There is no great problem of comprehension between the three Garman dialects, but there are three clear linguistic frontiers between Icenfrankisch, Garmanisch, and Gewisgarmanisch.

In the Ansalérga context, Gewisgarmanisch will have the most importance, as it is the first to be written down using the Irish script.
 

Deleted member 5719

The North - 576

Letter from Ardnicodemus Artocados to his brother Subhini maqui Subhini. 576 AD.


…when our uncle sent me to Ivoanna (1) thirteen years ago. My apprentices now have apprentices of their own, and their work surpasses my own!


But finally, thank the Dagda and his cunning artifice, it is finished.

The Liberos Cartani (2) contains charts of the greatest possible accuracy, covering all the islands from Centir (3) to Limhu (4) and the adjacent coasts of Tir Crutini (5). All known doors are included and described, along with not just the name of the Domuni to which they lead, but descriptions of the territory which a dealérganach (6) might encounter upon his arrival in this-or-that otherworld.

These maps and descriptions comprise the first 39 double pages of the book, and are followed by items of use to those of our brothers responsible for navigation. They are maps designed to aid sailing between the islands, including those hazards and fickle currents which cause so much calamity. Amongst these is my proudest creation, a fold-out map of all the islands in conjunction, four times larger than any other in the book.

After this, I have included charts relating the relative positions of three island groups which are within the domain of the king of the Picts. The first are the Insi Orc, which are just north of the cape of that name. They are many and populated with powerful warriors. Far to their north are the Insi Cath, which is a territory of quite wild men, those dark Picts who retain the older of the two Pictish languages, and are found also on the mainland in the territory of Cath. The last are islands even further to the north, are called the Fetlari. Their only inhabitants are those banished from Tir Crutini, though in summer Picts sometimes go there to hunt birds. I have never visited the islands myself, but the brothers at Ivoanna feel the Fetlari would be a good place for a Techos Drii.

The last page relates the position of an island described by two Limhu men who were driven far northwest of their course seven years ago. They called it a land of fire, which leads me to believe it may be close to the Domun of Gobinios. I would have left this out of the book, due to its doubtful provenance, but it reminds me of a story I heard once from an Elin Balor (7) man, so I decided to keep it.

The book is well bound in man leather, and the parchment is of the highest quality...




(1) Iona
(2) Book of Maps
(3) Kintyre
(4) Lewis
(5) Pictland

(6) "God-walker"
(7) Tory Island
 
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Domoviye

GAH! Man leather! I would not want to read that boook.
On a more serious note, the Dagda seem to really like maps. Is cartography going to advance more quickly than OTL as Dagdans run all over the world charting out the portals and doors?
 

Geekhis Khan

You'll never reach the Necronomicon! You'll die in the graveyard before you reach it!



Seriously, though, good update! And thanks for the nod. You're more than welcome. Keep it coming!
 

Deleted member 5719

Domoviye said:
GAH! Man leather! I would not want to read that boook.
On a more serious note, the Dagda seem to really like maps. Is cartography going to advance more quickly than OTL as Dagdans run all over the world charting out the portals and doors?
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The "bound in human skin" thing has always held a special place in my list of horrors, and he need to make the "Dagdans" a little unpleasant to stop myself wanking them.

Almost certainly yes regarding cartography, it is something that will have much more time and energy devoted to it than OTL.
 

Lysandros Aikiedes

Does the fallout of this "godwalking" ritual involve the monopoly on the cultivation of "magic mushrooms"?

As for the Franks, I take it the ones settled in the northern territories would remain Pagan, whereas some in the south take up Christianity. And the throne of the Frankish Kingdom could be contested in the future between both Christianized and Pagan dynasties.
 

Shevek23

I'm thanking you for doing so as it is interesting.

Though I'm reminded of The Far Side cartoon, "Hell's Library."

The shelves are full of books of "Story Problems," you see.
 

Cú Raghnaill

Good work good idea and good writing their will be huge changes not only for Ireland.

If Lughos is in Louth the Kingdom is Ciannnactha unless your referring to when Connachta invaded most of Uladh and North Laighin/Midhe.


We have loads of information on the old religion our books the Annals of the four masters, Book of Lecan, book of invasions and a whole lot of others cover bits on the ancient religion although written by Christians their is still a lot of information, most of what we know about Celtic religion is not from Greek and Roman but Irish Mythology(if the Irish are Celts) Gaelic religion anyways. Some of this religion might have lasted up until the early 20th century as a sub religion the Fairies, anybody in Ireland would have heard stories of the Banshee(Bean Sidhe) and a whole lot of other superstitions, the fairy folk, the butter robbers, changelings and so on. Recent studies show this may be a very corrupt and deformed version of the old religion, it was a 2nd belief system outside of the church until early 1900's.
 
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