The Czar survives the War
- Thread starter Nicole
- Start date
Independence for the Baltic four at least, different terms for Germany,(better or worse, I can't be sure of) maybe, hold on to your socks, a Russian Constantinople, if they're strong enough.
Why independance for the Baltic four? I'm postualating the Czar basically maintains complete control over all his domains- even Finland- to the end of the war...
Hm, with no Poland, Germany could keep most of it's pre-war border in the east... though, Russia could grab East Prussia, which would probably be even easier for a Hitler to take advantage of than the Polish Corridor.
Because it sounded good.
Russian Constantinople seems even more plausible. Austro-Hungarian parts of Poland. Maybe African territories or pieces of the Ottoman Empire.
I could see them getting West Armenia... and I agree that Galicia is nearly a definate...Because it sounded good.
Russian Constantinople seems even more plausible. Austro-Hungarian parts of Poland. Maybe African territories or pieces of the Ottoman Empire.
If A-H still breaks down, possibly the Czech and Slovak lands? Of course that would give them even MORE Catholics, not to mention an even longer border with Germany.
Maybe in a protectorate/satellite arrangement?
Maybe in a protectorate/satellite arrangement?
Maybe Russia could get Poland as a 'mandate,' combined with Galicia. I don't think western Armenia would be too hard, since the Turks were busy killing as many as they could get their hands on, so the western powers might welcome the Russians to stabilize the situation. As for Constantinople, I think the Entente would HAVE to give it to Russia, since they promised it to them and there will be very bad feelings on Russia's part if they don't get it. In our timeline Britain held onto it because there was no Russia to give it too...although what Russia will do with it is altogether anyone's guess. Probably Greece will get significant support from Russia in their war with rump Turkey...if there is significant Russian support to be had. Depends on how depleted the Russians are.
Max Sinister
Banned
It was Germany which declared Poland independent in 1916.
And I don't see how the Czar could survive - the people died in millions, suffered under famines, the government was corrupt and the Czar himself incompetent... no wonder the revolution happened.
And I don't see how the Czar could survive - the people died in millions, suffered under famines, the government was corrupt and the Czar himself incompetent... no wonder the revolution happened.
Xen
Banned
Nicholas holding onto the Russian throne is difficult, what if Anastasia had been born a male, say for the sake of the TL he is known as Tsarovich Peter, this butterflies away Alexei. Perhaps if we can kill Nicholas off sometime after the 1905 revolution, it would make the Tsardom easier to save. Grand Duke Mikhail, the brother of the late Tsar Nicholas II rules as regent while, the late Tsar's only son is crowned Peter IV.
Lets give Peter IV an inquisitive nature, he grows up wondering why his father was assassinated. He is often told by those in the Royal Courts it is because of anarchists who want to destroy Russia, or some other lame excuse, but Peter IV doesnt buy it. There is something terribly bad with the country and he wants to find out what.
Throughout the war, when things start going bad, there is alot of unrest in Russia, but most people blame Mikhail rather than the young Tsar. In a rather bold move, Mikhail is arrested by the order of Peter who believes he can now rule the nation without a regent, aware of the anti-Tsarist sentiment growing in Russia he bolsters his support by ordering members of the royal court onto rations giving food intended for the royal family to the people of St Petersburg, the army in the east takes a purely defensive stand, while the army fighting against the Ottomans takes aggressive measures, Trebizond is once again in Christiain hands as is Adrianople. With Britain and France as his allies now, he goes after Constantinople succeeding in taking and holding the city, shortly after the straights open up to allied transportation, allowing food shipments from the America's to enter Russia, when the United States enters the war, firearms pour into Russian ports and are sent to the front with Germany.
Faced against Four powerful nations, allied together, Germany surrenders earlier, before the Yanks see much action. France and Britain are concerned with a Russian Constantinople, but how far they protest it is up to speculation. Perhaps some sort of deal is worked out where the city becomes Greek, the Turks are expelled, forced to resettle in Anatolia somewhere. The straights become "Christianized" and "neutralized". Russia gets a warmwater port in Trebizond. Perhaps with the flow of Russians into the area of Pontus, the Pontic Greeks move westward to settle in Constantinople and eastern Thrace. Perhaps when Turkey and Greece do a population exchange it wont be determined by Christians and Muslims, but Turks and Greeks. Greek Muslims settle in Constantinople where they take over Muslim holy sites such as the Blue Mosque, while the Christians reclaim important places such as the Hagia Sophia and Hagia Irene. If not and the population exchanges go as per OTL, look for Turkish mosques to be converted to Eastern Orthodox Churches, Im sure the Greeks would enjoy not only reclaiming their cathedrals but converting mosques, the way they had to watch helplessly as it happened the other way around centuries before.
Alternatively the straights could become Greek, as does eastern Thrace, but Constantinople becomes an open city. Of course after Russian occupation, the aforementioned Christian sites will be reopened to Christianity, even after any peace is made to end the war. Constantinople will have many different quarters broke down probably into ethnic groups, such as the Turk quarter, the Greek quarter, the Russian quarter, the Bulgarian quarter, maybe an Italian quarter or Spanish quarter or someother Catholic group. The city will become one of the most diverse in the world, and while technically independent be a protectorate of the United Kingdom. I wonder how the government of the citystate of Constantinople will look?
Lets give Peter IV an inquisitive nature, he grows up wondering why his father was assassinated. He is often told by those in the Royal Courts it is because of anarchists who want to destroy Russia, or some other lame excuse, but Peter IV doesnt buy it. There is something terribly bad with the country and he wants to find out what.
Throughout the war, when things start going bad, there is alot of unrest in Russia, but most people blame Mikhail rather than the young Tsar. In a rather bold move, Mikhail is arrested by the order of Peter who believes he can now rule the nation without a regent, aware of the anti-Tsarist sentiment growing in Russia he bolsters his support by ordering members of the royal court onto rations giving food intended for the royal family to the people of St Petersburg, the army in the east takes a purely defensive stand, while the army fighting against the Ottomans takes aggressive measures, Trebizond is once again in Christiain hands as is Adrianople. With Britain and France as his allies now, he goes after Constantinople succeeding in taking and holding the city, shortly after the straights open up to allied transportation, allowing food shipments from the America's to enter Russia, when the United States enters the war, firearms pour into Russian ports and are sent to the front with Germany.
Faced against Four powerful nations, allied together, Germany surrenders earlier, before the Yanks see much action. France and Britain are concerned with a Russian Constantinople, but how far they protest it is up to speculation. Perhaps some sort of deal is worked out where the city becomes Greek, the Turks are expelled, forced to resettle in Anatolia somewhere. The straights become "Christianized" and "neutralized". Russia gets a warmwater port in Trebizond. Perhaps with the flow of Russians into the area of Pontus, the Pontic Greeks move westward to settle in Constantinople and eastern Thrace. Perhaps when Turkey and Greece do a population exchange it wont be determined by Christians and Muslims, but Turks and Greeks. Greek Muslims settle in Constantinople where they take over Muslim holy sites such as the Blue Mosque, while the Christians reclaim important places such as the Hagia Sophia and Hagia Irene. If not and the population exchanges go as per OTL, look for Turkish mosques to be converted to Eastern Orthodox Churches, Im sure the Greeks would enjoy not only reclaiming their cathedrals but converting mosques, the way they had to watch helplessly as it happened the other way around centuries before.
Alternatively the straights could become Greek, as does eastern Thrace, but Constantinople becomes an open city. Of course after Russian occupation, the aforementioned Christian sites will be reopened to Christianity, even after any peace is made to end the war. Constantinople will have many different quarters broke down probably into ethnic groups, such as the Turk quarter, the Greek quarter, the Russian quarter, the Bulgarian quarter, maybe an Italian quarter or Spanish quarter or someother Catholic group. The city will become one of the most diverse in the world, and while technically independent be a protectorate of the United Kingdom. I wonder how the government of the citystate of Constantinople will look?
well russia pre-war was liberalising slowly, so without such a harsh war, it's not impossible for the tsar to survive.. but when you say the tsar survives, do you mean that russia loses, but he survives? or that russia wins? hw do you see that happening? and what effect would this have on the western war?
on a purely speculative note, if the tsar had survived and germany lost, i'm sure that eastern europe would be less fractured than in OTL. having said that, most of eastern europe came from austria. poland would probablyy still exist but much smaller and dominated by russia. rumania was an ally so would still be there. i see part of turkey and bulgaria going their way. perhaps a more powerful yugoslavia, as serbia was their pet. possibly finland would have become independent anyway, but it would have taken longer and would have been less complete. finland and russia were never entirely one.
i'm sure also that the russians would have demanded heavy reparations. beyond that, i guess an enlarged, victorious russia would be battered but still standing, and able to continue with modernisation, though probably slower than in OTL, but maybe without the purges.
perhaps eventually, a constitutional monarchy...
on a purely speculative note, if the tsar had survived and germany lost, i'm sure that eastern europe would be less fractured than in OTL. having said that, most of eastern europe came from austria. poland would probablyy still exist but much smaller and dominated by russia. rumania was an ally so would still be there. i see part of turkey and bulgaria going their way. perhaps a more powerful yugoslavia, as serbia was their pet. possibly finland would have become independent anyway, but it would have taken longer and would have been less complete. finland and russia were never entirely one.
i'm sure also that the russians would have demanded heavy reparations. beyond that, i guess an enlarged, victorious russia would be battered but still standing, and able to continue with modernisation, though probably slower than in OTL, but maybe without the purges.
perhaps eventually, a constitutional monarchy...
Huey
Why? If Russia is still active in the east then Germany loses earlier, before the US commits forces in the west. Having played virtually no part in the actual fighting, demanded high interest rates for its loans and with Wilson trying to dictate the peace terms to everybody else US influence will probably be minimal. France especially but also Britain will put more value in Russia as an eastern check to Germany than a US already probably sinking back into isolation.
Steve