The Crusades and Mecca

1. Was any crusade at any point close to threatening the Hedjaz, Medina, and Mecca?

2. Suppose they somehow took the cities. A more pragmatic leader is in charge of it, and while they keep the cities, they allow Muslim pilgrims to continue their hajj, with the exception that Christians are now allowed to enter and live in Medina and Mecca. How will the Islamic world respond?
 

Keenir

Banned
1. Was any crusade at any point close to threatening the Hedjaz, Medina, and Mecca?

to the best of my limited knowledge, no.

2. Suppose they somehow took the cities. A more pragmatic leader is in charge of it, and while they keep the cities, they allow Muslim pilgrims to continue their hajj, with the exception that Christians are now allowed to enter and live in Medina and Mecca. How will the Islamic world respond?

that depends....why are the Crusaders a) keeping the Cities, while b) letting the Hajj continue?
 

Germaniac

Donor
1. Was any crusade at any point close to threatening the Hedjaz, Medina, and Mecca?

2. Suppose they somehow took the cities. A more pragmatic leader is in charge of it, and while they keep the cities, they allow Muslim pilgrims to continue their hajj, with the exception that Christians are now allowed to enter and live in Medina and Mecca. How will the Islamic world respond?

In fact there was a mission with the intent to take Mecca and ransom it back to the Muslims in return for the levant.

Lets say the crusaders take the city. If you thought the crusades were bad before think again. It will be sheer bloody mayhem
 
This is different. Last post was about them raiding Mecca and burning it to the ground. This is more like an actual army captures the Hedjaz but pays attention not to alienate dar al-Islam.

I'm trying to justify why in my current game of Crusader Kings I've managed to capture the entire region, built a huge domed church in the province of Mecca, and had mass-scale conversions that led to that province turning majority Catholic.
 
1. Was any crusade at any point close to threatening the Hedjaz, Medina, and Mecca?

2. Suppose they somehow took the cities. A more pragmatic leader is in charge of it, and while they keep the cities, they allow Muslim pilgrims to continue their hajj, with the exception that Christians are now allowed to enter and live in Medina and Mecca. How will the Islamic world respond?

1. No, there was not. How would a Crusader army get there? It's ridiculous.

2. The Islamic world will eject them which will be easy considering they are thousands of miles from the nearest source of manpower and supply, much of which is desert, and there is no sea connection.
 
1. Was any crusade at any point close to threatening the Hedjaz, Medina, and Mecca?

In 1182 (IIRC), Raynald de Chatillon led an expedition into the red sea, with the intention of disrupting mislim trade, siezing the holy cities, and taking the body of the prophet back to Kerak. Though initially successful, the raid was eventually defeated after a coherent response was gathered (Raynald having already made good his escape).

2. Suppose they somehow took the cities. A more pragmatic leader is in charge of it, and while they keep the cities, they allow Muslim pilgrims to continue their hajj, with the exception that Christians are now allowed to enter and live in Medina and Mecca. How will the Islamic world respond?

The mother of all jihads is called to reclaim them. Though this may not amount to anything, Mecca and Medina have now become prime targets for any islamic ruler. The cities are probably too far away from the levant for the christians to keep the area supplied and in communication, so sooner or later they will fall. Bad things are going to happen to the crusader states as well.

Now, raynald's raid was not about conquest, for the very good reason that he was lacking in numbers and the targets would be impossible to defend. His goal was more to take the cities, loot as he pleased, and then retire to his own lands with certain relics. IIRC he was even planning to hold the body of the prophet hostage and charge muslim pilgrims to see it. This will provoke a similar response from the islamic world, but results in a different scenario. kerak is a rather difficult nut to crack, and the christians may somehow hold out. The medium and long-term effects of this on the middle east will be interesting.
 
I'm trying to justify why in my current game of Crusader Kings I've managed to capture the entire region, built a huge domed church in the province of Mecca, and had mass-scale conversions that led to that province turning majority Catholic.

That seems like a case of convert or die. As for how to justify getting there, i guess God was on your side.:D
 

Hashasheen

Banned
This is different. Last post was about them raiding Mecca and burning it to the ground. This is more like an actual army captures the Hedjaz but pays attention not to alienate dar al-Islam.
You are aware of the time-period, no?

I'm trying to justify why in my current game of Crusader Kings I've managed to capture the entire region, built a huge domed church in the province of Mecca, and had mass-scale conversions that led to that province turning majority Catholic.
.. Its a game. You can't justify why in HoI2 Finland could conquer the USSR, Nazi Germany and China.
 
AFAIK the Portuguese discoverer / conqueror Albuquerque (who also took Goa) conquered Hormuz to close the Persian Gulf, planned the same for Aden to close the Red Sea for Muslims too (but failed) and had this plan: Conquer Mecca and exchange it for Jerusalem.
 
AFAIK the Portuguese discoverer / conqueror Albuquerque (who also took Goa) conquered Hormuz to close the Persian Gulf, planned the same for Aden to close the Red Sea for Muslims too (but failed) and had this plan: Conquer Mecca and exchange it for Jerusalem.

I am 1010% sure that that plan was concocted by several leading officers who had their Friday night drinking party, and began smoking a doobie in the captains cabin of a ship
 
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